Anti-smoking battle moves outdoors; bans increase

[slimvictor]

You do not have a right to not be a offended. Society is offended by the fact that people choose to use exogenous means to alter their consciousness in their own homes, and legally persecute the offenders for it, but I doubt you approve of that, being here? Or more apropos, swearing is offensive to many, should we fine folks for doing so? Or maybe we should be like the french and should outlaw the Burka, since that offends much of Christendom.

If we're going to differentiate tobacco, it must be for health reasons, and the only empirical data for outdoor passive smoking (i.e. second hand smoke) I've read indicates that you'd have to be such close proximity to smokers for such a long amount of time that only waiters/waitresses could possibly be affected. In which case a restaurant ban makes sense rather than schoolwide, or parkwide, or beachwide ban. If we want to merely be accommodating to other persons in public spaces, smoking/nonsmoking sections should do fine.

I basically agree with you, but I also have small disagreements with several of your points.
The smell of smoke is not "offensive" in the same way that swearing is offensive.
I get allergies from smelling smoke (and some perfumes). There is a physical reaction. It is a health problem. I am not the only one who gets allergies from smelling smoke. I easily know 2-3 dozen people who share this with me.
Swearing, however is about "morality". (For some reason that it is hard for me to understand.)
To offend someone's sensibilities is different from making the environment offensive to their body (speaking of indoor smoking).

Also, smoke from the smoking section does not obey the boundaries, and goes right into the non-smoking section. In restaurants / indoors, this is completely unacceptable - also for health reasons.
However, smoking/nonsmoking sections in parks, on beaches, etc. seems very reasonable to me. I don't like smelling smoke when in parks etc but I can always just walk away.

 

[f33lg00d]

The only reason I smoke is to blow it on prudes. I lol at them as they fake a coughs. I trust Big Tobacco to support my right to smoke with large sums of money.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I get allergies from smelling smoke (and some perfumes).

This is an issue, but I'm not really sympathetic. People with deadly bee allergies carry around medication, people with deadly food allergies haveta double check what they order at restaurants....it makes more sense to burden the person with the rare medical condition with preparedness than force everyone else to live according to their convenience, IMO. Of course, living in litigation happy USA (and in a state where the only indoor smoking occurs in private residences and cigar/hookah lounges), my opinion may be a bit more polarized than that of others.

Also, smoke from the smoking section does not obey the boundaries, and goes right into the non-smoking section. In restaurants / indoors, this is completely unacceptable - also for health reasons.

Right, right, if indoors we need a separate area with its own ventilation, or an entirely different venue to begin with. I'm just talking about outdoor areas, I mean, if Disneyland takes the time to oblige me and my kind (with some very nice smoking areas), our municipalities can throw us a bone, however small.

 

[What 23]

How do I not have the right to be offended? There are no meds I can take that ward off a reaction to perfumes. I'm also sensitive to many drugs. Basically, what it comes down to, is if you have the right to smoke any where in my vicinity, or even wear perfume... I have the right to take you out of my life, i.e. kill you. Maybe that is going too far. I'd say, more, I have the right to spray noxious fumes in your face. Because to my body, that is what you are doing to me. Even if you don't know. A giant doesn't know it's stepping in a field of red ants. The red ants will bite back.

I can't help that I'm fucked, but I'll do what I can to protect myself. I won't exactly kill you, or bite you, or spray you with shit, but sometimes I feel like lighting you all on fire for your lack of consideration for others. Selfish assholes.

I'm also allergic to bee stings. I was stung once on my neck, as a child, and my body went limp on one side. Last time I was stung, my arm swelled up to about three times its size. This is not something I can control, but I guess with bees I can carry medication. I accept the bees as a necessary part of life. I accept food as a necessary part of life. Perfume is not. Perfume is made of known toxins. Things that according to science cause abnormal functioning in any amount of exposure, and people are dousing themselves in the stuff. We never know how we are going to react. Chemicals in things that we introduce to our bodies, for cosmetic and perfumery, and whatnot, have been linked to fucking up child development. Dryer sheets, some compound in them, has been linked to a higher incidence of bi-polar spectrum disorders. Antihistamines won't do jack for that, so I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[f33lg00d]

Bring around an oxygen tank, if typical air pollutants make you sick. If your that sensitive natural things or city air probably causes bad reactions too.

 

[What 23]

The only reason I smoke is to blow it on prudes. I lol at them as they fake a coughs. I trust Big Tobacco to support my right to smoke with large sums of money.

I think it'd be hilarious if someone was effective enough and able enough to hunt down and murder people like you, and also able enough to where no army could stop them Would they be wrong? I know you were kidding, but this is the way I feel about many people. They just do it because they can get away with it, and essentially they're getting away with nothing short of murder of a potentially positive life. Soooo many people would die!

I have harbored a lot of emotion, negative, against my father. I have since forgiven him... Because he's human... But in every photo I see of him, back in the day, me growing up, he is smoking, or with an ashtray near him. He and his side of the family did it in-doors. I'd like to say they didn't have awareness, but I feel like I would be smart enough to say, or think, that blowing smoke in my children's environment, isn't really a good thing. I mean they had studies.. But I guess they didn't have quite the awareness. I had tons of ear infections, and asthma, as a child. Tons of allergies developed. I doubt growing up in a house with constant scented candles, and a cloud of tobacco smoke, helped, the ear infection this week and ear infection two weeks later and ear infection two weeks later and tumor and bursting of pus, every morning, on a fucking heating blanket. The only thing that saves them, my parents, and people, is the fact that "they know not what they do". If you actually knew what you did...

"I think it'd be hilarious if someone was effective enough and able enough to hunt down and murder people like you..."

The way people with sensitivities fight is with instilling awareness. This also goes for possible health implications of second hand smoke in out-door environments. But the cascade of implications into reality, for this, is looking into the use of coal and other fossil fuels, and whatnot... but the deal with those, is, they are more required, and we do what we can... When we can. Not to get into the companies being like parasites, still.

 

[What 23]

Bring around an oxygen tank, if typical air pollutants make you sick. If your that sensitive natural things or city air probably causes bad reactions too.

Those don't filter things. It's not lack of oxygen. I get plenty of oxygen. I'm also allergic to the plastic tubing that's available, that I have tried. I'm not bad off in the woods, in the natural world... really nothing bothers me that much 8)

I guess I could move to the country, but I also live like a normal person. I have tried masks. I'm allergic to masks, the materials, even the most hypoallergenic. I usually just suffer silently.

"I'm prayin for rain...", sometimes...

 

[slimvictor]

This is an issue, but I'm not really sympathetic. People with deadly bee allergies carry around medication, people with deadly food allergies haveta double check what they order at restaurants....it makes more sense to burden the person with the rare medical condition with preparedness than force everyone else to live according to their convenience, IMO.

Ah, but it actually isn't that rare.
Should rarity even be part of the discussion? Peanut allergies are no longer rare, so should putting peanuts in food without giving notice be illegal?
Of course, if one person has a rare allergy to music that shouldn't mean that music is made illegal. Basically, it comes down to scientific evidence about health effects, as you said, and I agree.

 

[f33lg00d]

Sounds like your just gonna die no matter what we ban/limit, sorry bro. I joke though, I get reved up when I here about rights eroding; which occurs all to often these days. In reality I actually try not to be obnoxious with my smoking but if it causes problems just briefly walking by you then, I think the responsibility should be on your shoulders. Because relegating me to smoking in one area due to your hypersensitivity causes me to illnesses due to low nicotine levels and just because I chose my illness makes it no less respectable.

 

[PurpleKush1]

Tobacco use as it is commonly used is disgusting. I'm fine with people actually enjoying their tobacco like people enjoy weed. I wouldn't smoke weed where children are present, and or people who don't smoke are present. I feel wrong lighting up right next to non smoking people especially if there is any chance they are having to breath it.

Even as a smoker of cigs, other smokers who smoked even outdoors around or in areas where non smokers and children were downstream pissed me off. I smoked 10 years and could never shake the feeling of guilt for making another inhale unnecessarily. The fact is, it is totally unnecessary, has absolutely no benefit to your health, and the tolerance people have to it makes it useless as a recreational substance mostly... and its mass produced in a corrupt industry that destroys the environment even further with its mass use of pesticides.

Fucking overgrown babies. Just quit. Or smoke one rolled yourself organic one a day, or make a thing of it at least when you do. Respect the process. You are basically eating nasty candy and fast good 20 times a day. Not really, but you aren't slapping down some pasture raised Angus on the grill... and enjoying it.

I believe it is more awareness that needs to be instilled.

Yaya just quit easy to say for you maybe..... i cant quit and i love smoking too much and its my choice whether i smoke or not so i aint quitting. Im sure you never smoked seriously because you wouldnt be like oh just sto and smoke one organic a day....yeah right.

 

[slimvictor]

In reality I actually try not to be obnoxious with my spewing of low-level radioactive waste but if it causes problems just briefly walking by you then, I think the responsibility should be on your shoulders. .

Fixed

Edit: On a more serious note, there is a ton of evidence that second-hand smoke is a powerful toxin. I think it would be irresponsible to assume that, lacking scientific evidence that shows a strong correlation between outside exposure to second-hand smoke (which is pretty hard to research!), there must be no correlation whatsoever. The simplest assumption is that a toxin is a toxin, and exposing people to toxins against their will in public places is a no-no. That is why I support the idea of smoking areas and non-smoking areas in outside, public locations.

BTW, I am also for the legalization of all drugs, and I would prefer there to be "drug use" areas, with people shooting dope and smoking weed alongside those smoking tobacco.

 

[ro4eva]

This is kinda off topic but I just wanted to respond to an earlier post re. the obesity problem in America with what may be considered a silly perspective on the matter.

You see, whenever it comes to recreational drug use, I hear the word "abuse" thrown around a lot. "Oh that person is abusing his medication" and "that other person has a long history of drug abuse."

I just think it would be rather fascinating to slap the words "food abuse" on any obese American who you witness enjoying another (unnecessary) serving of junk food.

Yes, I know that we need to eat to survive. However, in my opinion, there's a difference between John Doe having his breakfast because he hasn't eaten anything for 14 hours, and Fat Albert mowing down his third Twinkie in less than a minute.

Mr. Albert clearly has a history of edible substance abuse, no?

Okay I'm done.

 

[MoreFeens4Morphine]

Remember when we could smoke on air planes? Ahh... the good ol' days.....

I'm tired of this smoking ban shit. Everyone did it everywhere a generation or two ago, and it didn't affect anyone. Just let us smoke where we want.

That's just my opinion. haha.

Good article though.

 

[oldirtybizza]

I don't see why I should give up my freedom because of weak celled bubble boys.

Anyone who claims they are effected by the mere whiff of sweet sweet tobaccy but not to the cloud of shit most urbanites live in, is having the type of psychosomatic paranoid delusions more commonly associated with 5 day binges vaporising rocks on the glass barbie.

Anyway as the article said the most worrying thing isn't necessarily the ban on smoking itself but the precedents set by such legislature and their extension into other areas of human activities.

The fact that other airborne pollutants with far greater health risks are not being as regulated really exposes such legislature as having a broader agenda than just improving the health of delicate souls with their affectations of a 19th century chimney sweep.

I'm not a actually a big smoker and I do realise the dangers of tobacco smoking but we can't let these nouveau prohibitionist teetotalling moralist swine gain any more footing. You better believe booze is next on the agenda. If you don't think how that could happen with beer just look at how the views on smoking have changed from it's widespread social acceptability in the 50's to it's current demonisation.
If that happens to alcohol then my dream of one day being able to buy smack from the chemist goes right out the fucking window.

 

[What 23]

Yaya just quit easy to say for you maybe..... i cant quit and i love smoking too much and its my choice whether i smoke or not so i aint quitting. Im sure you never smoked seriously because you wouldnt be like oh just sto and smoke one organic a day....yeah right.

For the record I smoked around 10 years. Around 2 pks a day. Switched to American Spirit then rolled my own from that brand.

I got the drive to quit in me, and when I researched the nicotine levels in that brand, especially the rapidly absorbed freebase form, American Spirit was found to have some of the most of any brand. This made me feel hopeless for quitting... So I switched to snuffing. Putting it up my nose. It was a rush. The intensity and dose shook the, or eased me out of the habit. Provided a fix. I doubt oral snus or chewing tobacco would have had the same effect. My reasoning for switching to it was "I'm smoking crack anyways", referring to the highly addictive freebase form of nicotine in the American Spirit- the amounts in. I snuffed for about 4-5 months without smoking and quit with a choice, on Easter.

For the person who refutes that the "smell" of tobacco can cause allergic reactions, you obviously don't understand the nature of odors, fragrances, and allergic reactions.

This said, I'm only sensitive (or not highly "allergic") to tobacco smoke, as far as tobacco in smoked form goes, as I think anyone is to smoke, though I maybe more than some. I still avoid it... And do have issues with "flavored" types. Still, I will take cigarette smoke, myself, over oil burning air freshners, air fresheners, perfumes, scented candles, lotions, Etc... Any day. Even gasoline smell I handle without much issue as long as I'm not saturated in it or if it is constant... But certain designed fragrances just a teeny tiny whiff can make a hell for me... So I empathize with those that tobacco does it to. ... And I'd probably kill for them considering some of the attitudes of people. Kill kill kill. (Probably not but maybe).

I may edit this later to put what I'm responding to better, but I'm on a phone and riding in a car so it makes it hard to edit... But...

I am not a "weak celled bubble boy"... My "cells" attack everything. Its why I don't get the flu (since I was 7 and had it for a week, can't remember last time immunized... I'm 31 now, and I guess I just can't remember the last the I was "down for the count"), and I'm a certain measurable percentage less likely to get cancer because of its-my immune systems, and whatever's, hyperactivity, asshole. If I am weak, it is because I am too strong for my own good, in ways.

To me, you habitual smokers, are just dumbasses. In respects. In this respect. Dumbasses. But I still choose on levels to be oblivious to things that I can, too, and this could go for me, in certain other respects. But you dont see me smoking 20 joints with glue and fire retardants and whatnot a day, or eating 20 sliders or a few sticks of butter.

But I do need to work on my chocolate consumption. At least its dark!

In an end, I see all drug use stemming from a sickness of some kind, even if that sickness is boredom. Drugs don't have to be dirty. I'm not anti drug. Sicknesses come in a variety of forms. Life began as things seemingly more related to what makes us sick, and I guess helps keeps us healthy, in a sense.

To those who aren't empathetic with those who struggle, though, I kind of hope you have bubble children. Not really... Totally not really, but if only to make you experience it.

Aaand I keep rambling... But just to counter some more, the bubble material would most likely evoke reactions (these plastics constantly off gas). Bubble stuff is for those with bad immune systems. Mine is just screwed up. Pathogens are less issue for me than you, most likely... Especially, especially now that I don't smoke 20< cigs a day.

So hey, with that, I could say you are dirty disease harborers! And you smell like urea, and other nastiness! And because of this you use more dirty toxic fragrances (not always). ...Your colds are known to not go away for two weeks to my 3-4 days start-finish... And you make more people sick that way, potentially. Where I might expose 1 you expose 3-4-5 because of duration. Not a rule, but a distinct possibility to be closer to the reality than not. So suffering factors in. You are likely to get sick multiple times a year. You are likely to miss work. Smoking is a big cause of "weak cells"- literally. That's why you guys shrivel up faster. Well, part.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

My "cells" attack everything.

Autoimmune diseases are lame, I know the feeling. I have one that nicotine actually exacerbates, doesn't stop me from smoking though.

 

[What 23]

^Sometimes I think giving the body something else to focus on can somehow regulate illnesses like these.

I don't know. Maybe you controlling this, provides for some regulation. I know I do this with foods sometimes, or it seems I have. I become used to some level of sickness, and its regular, where out of my control, I have less of a say.

Not quite sure if I could say that how I wanted.

What do you have?

 

[oldirtybizza]

Dear Bubble Boy please fill this thread with more of your subjective opinions, personal attacks, death threats, stories about yourself and other incoherent self absorbed digressions.

 

[What 23]

Well you just haven't any idea what you are talking about. Stories are illustrations. Personal attacks? Death threats? Keep smoking!

Here is another story. My best friends dad died on October 23rd, 2012. He had lung cancer. He smoked. The tumor material dislodged and got in his brain.

Also, I try to stay away from opinions. Please point out an opinion so I can at the very least describe the facts that might base it.

 

[PurpleKush1]

For the record I smoked around 10 years. Around 2 pks a day. Switched to American Spirit then rolled my own from that brand.

I got the drive to quit in me, and when I researched the nicotine levels in that brand, especially the rapidly absorbed freebase form, American Spirit was found to have some of the most of any brand. This made me feel hopeless for quitting... So I switched to snuffing. Putting it up my nose. It was a rush. The intensity and dose shook the, or eased me out of the habit. Provided a fix. I doubt oral snus or chewing tobacco would have had the same effect. My reasoning for switching to it was "I'm smoking crack anyways", referring to the highly addictive freebase form of nicotine in the American Spirit- the amounts in. I snuffed for about 4-5 months without smoking and quit with a choice, on Easter.

For the person who refutes that the "smell" of tobacco can cause allergic reactions, you obviously don't understand the nature of odors, fragrances, and allergic reactions.

This said, I'm only sensitive (or not highly "allergic") to tobacco smoke, as far as tobacco in smoked form goes, as I think anyone is to smoke, though I maybe more than some. I still avoid it... And do have issues with "flavored" types. Still, I will take cigarette smoke, myself, over oil burning air freshners, air fresheners, perfumes, scented candles, lotions, Etc... Any day. Even gasoline smell I handle without much issue as long as I'm not saturated in it or if it is constant... But certain designed fragrances just a teeny tiny whiff can make a hell for me... So I empathize with those that tobacco does it to. ... And I'd probably kill for them considering some of the attitudes of people. Kill kill kill. (Probably not but maybe).

I may edit this later to put what I'm responding to better, but I'm on a phone and riding in a car so it makes it hard to edit... But...

I am not a "weak celled bubble boy"... My "cells" attack everything. Its why I don't get the flu (since I was 7 and had it for a week, can't remember last time immunized... I'm 31 now, and I guess I just can't remember the last the I was "down for the count"), and I'm a certain measurable percentage less likely to get cancer because of its-my immune systems, and whatever's, hyperactivity, asshole. If I am weak, it is because I am too strong for my own good, in ways.

To me, you habitual smokers, are just dumbasses. In respects. In this respect. Dumbasses. But I still choose on levels to be oblivious to things that I can, too, and this could go for me, in certain other respects. But you dont see me smoking 20 joints with glue and fire retardants and whatnot a day, or eating 20 sliders or a few sticks of butter.

But I do need to work on my chocolate consumption. At least its dark!

In an end, I see all drug use stemming from a sickness of some kind, even if that sickness is boredom. Drugs don't have to be dirty. I'm not anti drug. Sicknesses come in a variety of forms. Life began as things seemingly more related to what makes us sick, and I guess helps keeps us healthy, in a sense.

To those who aren't empathetic with those who struggle, though, I kind of hope you have bubble children. Not really... Totally not really, but if only to make you experience it.

Aaand I keep rambling... But just to counter some more, the bubble material would most likely evoke reactions (these plastics constantly off gas). Bubble stuff is for those with bad immune systems. Mine is just screwed up. Pathogens are less issue for me than you, most likely... Especially, especially now that I don't smoke 20< cigs a day.

So hey, with that, I could say you are dirty disease harborers! And you smell like urea, and other nastiness! And because of this you use more dirty toxic fragrances (not always). ...Your colds are known to not go away for two weeks to my 3-4 days start-finish... And you make more people sick that way, potentially. Where I might expose 1 you expose 3-4-5 because of duration. Not a rule, but a distinct possibility to be closer to the reality than not. So suffering factors in. You are likely to get sick multiple times a year. You are likely to miss work. Smoking is a big cause of "weak cells"- literally. That's why you guys shrivel up faster. Well, part.

Fuck snuff i like the taste of my cigs, and i need the nicotine aswell as the fact of smoking. I like smoking shit just as i like snorting. This said, im going to continuie being a ''dumbass'' and smoke my cigs, lol. Your post is full of bulshit, ive gotten sick once in the two last years. And i smoke alot. Also you can keep your disrecptful and useless comments to yourself , asshole

Dear Bubble Boy please fill this thread with more of your subjective opinions, personal attacks, death threats, stories about yourself and other incoherent self absorbed digressions.

^^ word.