Anti-PCP?

[Ismene]

In addition, governments end up spending tremendous amounts of money, of taxpayer money, to "combat" it, and to lock up millions of people, most of whom were doing nothing wrong aside from smoking it or distributing it to friends.

But then again governments employ hundreds of thousands of people in many industries to keep the prohibition campaign going. Legalise drugs and you put countless thousands of barristers, policemen, prison officers, magistrates, etc out of work. Not to mention the entire web design team of "Talk to Frank" All these people pay taxes. I'm not sure whether the cost of prohibition outweighs the tax return and boost to the economy from the people employed in it.

I know in America using cheap prison slave labour to build roads etc keeps a lot of construction firms in business.

 

[indelibleface]

Erowid is a fairly neutral source by the way. I honestly think the only group of drugs they actively condemn (save for perhaps a couple of others I can't recall) are inhalants, and rightly so. Of the rest, they post information from sources on all sides of the spectrum, which means some of it might be sensationalist propaganda. They're trying not to form an opinion on most subjects. Libraries don't form opinions, they just contain information.

So, I don't think Erowid is right all the time. They're not meant to be. They're supposed to be an archive of information gathered from multiple sources, and by perusing through all of them, you'll get a reasonable idea of the truth.

 

[trip.more]

I've seen people get wet and no one died
I've smoked it before, I really like ket better but it wasn't BAD I wouldn't hurt anyone just sit there

So does 2C-T-7 cause violence?I've never gotten naked or violent on 2C-T-7.I think like T-7, PCP's action depends on the amount taken and the user.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ct7/2ct7_death3.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ct7/2ct7_death2.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ct7/2ct7_death1.shtml

 

[Afterm4th]

But then again governments employ hundreds of thousands of people in many industries to keep the prohibition campaign going. Legalise drugs and you put countless thousands of barristers, policemen, prison officers, magistrates, etc out of work. Not to mention the entire web design team of "Talk to Frank" All these people pay taxes. I'm not sure whether the cost of prohibition outweighs the tax return and boost to the economy from the people employed in it.

Its called the The Prison-Industrial Complex or also the war on drugs Industrial Complex. It is an evil tower of power that leaches off every person on this planet. It is an evil chain link fence of corruption.

The cost of prohibition is beyond even dollar amounts. The cost of prohibition can be measured in lives stolen and lives lost.

But lets not get side tracked..

PCP is said to be very euphoric, but on the other hand PCP looks pretty ugly in some of the videos I've seen on youtube. I say do it if you know what you are doing. Dont do it if you are going to take off your clothes and punch holes in fences

 

[Church]

Good point, trip.more!

 

[gloggawogga]

I think the main concern with PCP for me personally is the potentially extrememly dangerous impurities that come with the chemists who are doing this purely for profit.

This is probably the biggest danger in doing PCP today. You don't know what all is in it. While I did street PCP back in the 70's, I wouldn't do PCP today unless it was from a chemist I trusted or it was analyzed independently.

 

[Afterm4th]

This is probably the biggest danger in doing PCP today. You don't know what all is in it. While I did street PCP back in the 70's, I wouldn't do PCP today unless it was from a chemist I trusted or it was analyzed independently.

Isnt one of the impurities called "PCC" ?

I read PCC is poisonous. What are the effects of contaminated PCP? How do they differ from 'good' pcp, and how do the trips differ?

 

[swilow]

Sure. You don't need any information at all to make a judgement. Its just a worthless judgement. If you want to make a judgement about black people without ever having met one, you can do that too. Its called having a stupid, uninformed, and prejudiced opinion.

Sure, cause its different to your own? Get fucked. I'm not bagging or insulting anyone for using PCP, yet your attacking me for being dubious about it. For fucks sake, I've stated my posistion clearly- from what I've read I don't trust it- and a lot of replies in this thread have exhibited the same hesitation towards it. I haven't heard many glowing reports.

Don't try to label what I'm saying as being in the same league as racism, thats insulting and totally unfounded. I started the thread because Bluelights about harm reduction- thought I'd mention a topic that seems important in this regard.

I said it CAN characteristacll cause violence- I never said it always does-its like if I'd said that about meth, people would have agreed, because its fucking true. If I'd saud that about alchohol, again, people would have agreed.Not all psychedelics can be defended as good and useful.

 

[swilow]

To the original poster: To try and tell people not to do PCP because it fuels prohibitionists, is in itself, a prohibitionist attitude. You cant just say "dont do it because it's bad.." You might be right, but people are going to try it anyways.

.

Not trying to prohibit it- people should have the choice as to whether they want PCP or not; thats not the point. Its just that tight arse governments only need to whisper PCP alongside some stories of baby eating, and conservative, frightened populations will be more then happy to keep all drugs illegal. I want drugs legal, I don't want PCP use, which I am not in favour of, to ruin the chances of me being able to consume plants legally, which, alongside meth, crack and heroin, it is doing.... Its not because its 'bad' that people shouldn't do it, in fact I wAS taking the lofty stance of harm reduction. Oh well People can do whatever they want, I can wish that they wouldn't . . .

 

[x2stpsfrmnowhere]

When I said weed causes more harm to soceity, I didn't mean to the people using it. I meant as in the dealer in your hood shooting it out with rival dealers. In reality there is alot of crime resulting from the underground weed trade. Of course this would be greatly reduced if it were legal as would many problems like this caused by drugs.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Isnt one of the impurities called "PCC" ?

I read PCC is poisonous. What are the effects of contaminated PCP? How do they differ from 'good' pcp, and how do the trips differ?

.

An intermediate product in the most common methid of manufacturing PCP is 1-phenylcyclohexane-1-carbonitrile, carbonitrile being the IUPAC designation for a cyanide group. If the unreacted PCC isn't removed by the person making the PCP, and the synthesis was sloppy, leaving behind a lot of PCC, then you've got a lot of something that breaks down into a poison when heated. They differ in that one will poison you in the real sense (as opposed to the knee-jerk news media who refer to pure PCP as a poison destroying youth), possibly into the grave if it's badly contaminated

 

[Pharaoh Sphinx]

I enjoyed the hell out of the few PCP experiences I've had.

word. best drug ive EVER done, seriously.

experienced the most blissful and tranquil moments, and the funnest craziest moments on that stuff. its great, everytime you do it totally new experience never sure how you gonna ride.

 

[5-HT2]

Ketamine and PCP are pretty similar drugs, and almost certainly have the same primary pharmacological mechanism of action. The best analogy I could make is to tryptamines and phenethylamines. I have quite a bit of experience with pure, LC/MS analyzed PCP, and I never once had an experience where I could not control myself. There were a few times when I was also on 4-MAR that I did a little too much and became paranoid, but I wasn't nearly at the point of going on a psychopathic rampage. All those people who claim that violent or sociopathic behavior is in any way characteristic of PCP effects need to STFU and do more research, such as, for starters, UTFSE on BL. Like stimulants, alcohol, and non-dissociative psychedelics, PCP will make people violent only if they already have the seed within them. Based on my personal experience as well as my perusal of the internet and medical literature, I would say that the rate of adverse reactions to PCP is probably similar to the likelihood of bad LSD trips.

 

[gloggawogga]

Sure, cause its different to your own?

Yes, because unlike your opinion, mine is informed. Yours obviously isn't, and is based on flawed reasoning. You've never had any exposure to this drug, and you are mererly generalizing media hype which is based on isolated cases.

and a lot of replies in this thread have exhibited the same hesitation towards it.

The majority of people posting in this thread are disagreeing with your assertion that violence is a characteristic of PCP, and are acknowledging that the media has over hyped PCP.

Don't try to label what I'm saying as being in the same league as racism, thats insulting and totally unfounded.

Its not in the same league ethically, but you still are using the same type of flawed reasoning a racist uses. You make sweeping generalizations based on isolated cases. Just because one person or another person get violent on PCP doesn't mean PCP makes anyone prone to violence, or that violence is a characteristic of PCP.

thats insulting

Well, I'm sorry. But if I think your reasoning is flawed what should I do? Lie to you to keep from hurting your feelings? Its not my fault you use flawed reasoning. I'm just pointing it out for you.

Bluelights about harm reduction- thought I'd mention a topic that seems important in this regard.

Yeah, and part of harm reduction is hype reduction. Thanks for warning us all about something we know a lot more about than you do. And thanks for cursing at me like that too.

 

[swilow]

Okay heres a pretty good article, its long, but seems pretty unbiased. Its sort of supports both sides of the argument

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/pcp3.htm

 

[swilow]

The majority of people posting in this thread are disagreeing with your assertion that violence is a characteristic of PCP, and are acknowledging that the media has over hyped PCP.

Well, thats true, and I must say I am in agreeance that the information is definitely hyped (persistent though, wouldn't you say?), but most people still seem hesiatnt in regards to it. Not many people seem to be totally keen and up for it. Thats all I meant. I have only seen a few really positive remarks about it.

Its not in the same league ethically, but you still are using the same type of flawed reasoning a racist uses. You make sweeping generalizations based on isolated cases. Just because one person or another person get violent on PCP doesn't mean PCP makes anyone prone to violence, or that violence is a characteristic of PCP.

Except for the levity of the issue, your right. Lucky I'm talking about a chemical and not an entire race then.

Well, I'm sorry. But if I think your reasoning is flawed what should I do? Lie to you to keep from hurting your feelings? Its not my fault you use flawed reasoning. I'm just pointing it out for you.

I read an article which seemed to agree with a lot of other things I've read and heard from a trusted source. My entire argument has not been that PCP is inherently bad or makes people violent, it just weakens the cause of drug reform. No-ones gonna want a drug legalised that has been popping up in the news, for whatever reason, for extreme violence for thirty years now- eclisping every other drug for this. Even heroin, the most demonised substance on the planet, hasn't received such unremitting flack for violence, and violence can never be tolerated (IMO). This doesn't mean the stories are true, just that PCP seems to hold a dark place in the imagination of lots of people. It does, however, suggest some of the stories ARE true.

I don't care if you lie or agree, just accept that not everyone knows everything first hand- the point of bluelight is so you don't actually have to. You can find out, as I've done.

Yeah, and part of harm reduction is hype reduction. Thanks for warning us all about something we know a lot more about than you do. And thanks for cursing at me like that too.

To be honest, that sounds arrogant. I was just trying to raise a topic that concerned me, not self righteously warn anyone. I'm not really one to do that.

I'm not sure that many peope who have posted know, first hand, much more then me anyway.

Sorry for swearing, I just get annoyed when someone just calls me stupid, predjudiced and uninformed.

 

[college_dropout]

One time I was aiming for the K Hole but fell just short (worst place to be because it's impossible to get yourself together to cut yourself another line that'll get ya over the edge). I was sitting on my bed, well really sinking into my bed, when I started having the most bizarre violent thoughts. As in really incredibly disgustingly violent. Twas quite disturbing. I never felt compelled to act on them, my reaction to them was disgust but I don't really know how they got lodged in my head. It was really weird. Hasn't happened again tho.

 

[Ismene]

Well, thats true, and I must say I am in agreeance that the information is definitely hyped (persistent though, wouldn't you say?),

Urban myths are persistent by their very nature tho.

No-ones gonna want a drug legalised that has been popping up in the news, for whatever reason, for extreme violence for thirty years now- eclisping every other drug for this. Even heroin, the most demonised substance on the planet, hasn't received such unremitting flack for violence, and violence can never be tolerated (IMO).

But you're comparing the drugs at different periods in their history. When cannabis was first being demonised in the 1920's through to the 1950's you could find endless stories of "reefer madness" and it making people perform acts of insane violence.

Myths take an awfully long time to die out - we're even seeing a rebirth of the "cannabis makes you violent and psychotic" hysteria today 80 years later.

PCP demonisation is a fairly recent phenomena so the myths are still at full strength. The other problem is hardly anyone ever gets to use PCP so it's easier for them to believe the urban myths rather than know the truth.

If Ecstsasy was as rare as PCP and people were going on what they read in the media about it's effects they'd all believe you dropped dead the moment you took a pill.

 

[swilow]

^^^PCP myths are not that recent ie. reports of extreme reactions were around in the fifties.

I personally haven't seen to many stories relating cannabis to violence recently though I'm sure their out there.

 

[gloggawogga]

My entire argument has not been that PCP is inherently bad or makes people violent, it just weakens the cause of drug reform. No-ones gonna want a drug legalised that has been popping up in the news, for whatever reason, for extreme violence for thirty years now- eclisping every other drug for this. Even heroin, the most demonised substance on the planet, hasn't received such unremitting flack for violence, and violence can never be tolerated (IMO).

Ok well thats fine, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that, but thats a political issue not a harm reduction issue. If you want to have some serious debate on that topic you should start a thread on that in the drug culture forum.

This doesn't mean the stories are true, just that PCP seems to hold a dark place in the imagination of lots of people. It does, however, suggest some of the stories ARE true.

The stories are real stories, but they're isolated cases being focused on by the media. PCP is not eclipsing other drugs for violence. What about all the alcohol related violence? Thats not news. And there are plenty of cases if LSD and mushroom related violence too.

To be honest, that sounds arrogant. I was just trying to raise a topic that concerned me, not self righteously warn anyone.

Concerns you how? Are you using PCP or planning on using it? This forum is mainly for discussions by users of these drugs, those considering to use these drugs, and other informed persons to exchange advice and information so that they can take specific actions protect themselves. Discussing the broader drug culture implications related to psychedelic use and whether a psychedelic should be legalized is more a topic for the drug culture forum.

I'm not sure that many peope who have posted know, first hand, much more then me anyway.

Well, a number of people here have posted that they are actually experienced with the drug, and a few said they even enjoyed it. And I've yet to see you acknowledge that violence is characteristic of a person, not a drug. In other words, if a person doesn't have a violent tendency begin with, just giving them some drug isn't going to make them violent. People with violent tendencies shouldn't be using PCP, for sure, and a long list of other drugs too.