GenericMind
Bluelighter
None of this changes the fact that it's none of the OP's fucking business.
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SLR Moderators: Senior Staff
Anonymous Post: Is this assault?
- Thread starter QuestionEverything
- Start date
9mmCensor
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 4,956
Sorry for being an asshole.
"yeah don't just go hurt someone because you don't have faith in the judicial system, because if you do something like hurting someone, you might end up in the judicial then penal system to find out that it does work."
I would happily spend the rest of my life in prison knowing I had rid the earth of a rapist. An incapacitated rapist cant do any more harm ... My going to live in a 6x8 cell would send me insane .... then I get to live in a nice mental health hospital, go for walks in the park get a silly amount of cash from the gov and have no worries in the world. Only down side .... hospital food sucks. Don’t believe me ... go get a job at your local mental health hospital! (PS a lot of words spoken out of anger here)
You are willing to seriously hurt or kill someone. Highly unreasonable, illogical, and wrong thing to do. How can you judge someone if you yourself will do something as horrific as killing someone?
"yeah don't just go hurt someone because you don't have faith in the judicial system, because if you do something like hurting someone, you might end up in the judicial then penal system to find out that it does work."
I would happily spend the rest of my life in prison knowing I had rid the earth of a rapist. An incapacitated rapist cant do any more harm ... My going to live in a 6x8 cell would send me insane .... then I get to live in a nice mental health hospital, go for walks in the park get a silly amount of cash from the gov and have no worries in the world. Only down side .... hospital food sucks. Don’t believe me ... go get a job at your local mental health hospital! (PS a lot of words spoken out of anger here)
You are willing to seriously hurt or kill someone. Highly unreasonable, illogical, and wrong thing to do. How can you judge someone if you yourself will do something as horrific as killing someone?
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QuestionEverything
Bluelight Crew
Johny Boy said:
Legally speaking, it isn't. We've established that already, have we not? It is, however, a totally different situation than the one the OP has posed.
Swiss Banker
Bluelighter
The bottom line is that:
1. While I don't know what jurisdiction we are talking about, likely the boyfriend the Original Poster described committed rape, and likely the lesser included offense of sexual assault, according to the letter of the law. Very serious charges.
2. I find it very hard to imagine any circumstance in which this case would be prosecuted- even IF the girlfriend filed charges. (Though I was a litigator in the U.S. for several years- I no longer practice so I am not your lawyer. Please consult your own legal advisers before fucking incapacitated people).
3. The Original Poster is not reacting, in my opinion, out of a selfless concern for the girl's well being. The girl, according to the facts we have, doesn't seem to mind. She is not offended. It was relayed as a tale of interest, not a shocking horror. So do we prosecute (either in the courts or the court of public opinion or the court of vigilante justice) a crime where the victim doesn't seem to think one has occurred? Funny, wouldn't it be, if a bunch of users on a drug focused forum wanted to vigorously prosecute a victimless crime? The Original Poster needs to do some serious self-reflection on why he is so up in arms over this. Sounds more like he would disapprove of her having any sexual relationship with anyone. But since that's not something that can be voiced (to himself or to others) the fact that he can now demonize the boyfriend (who he likely envies) probably has more to do with the outrage here than anything else.
4. Yes, if you fellatiate your boyfriend into a wakeful state you have probably committed second or third degree sexual assault according to the letter of the law (but see section 2 and my disclaimer above).
5. Yes, if you wake your girlfriend with penetration you have probably committed rape according to the letter of the law. (Consider, what if she woke up and was horrified and wanted you to stop immediately? Clearly, you didn't have her consent when you started. You couldn't have.)
6. I think it's safe to say that if you would be impaired enough to be under the influence for purposes of traffic laws, then you are unable to give your consent in a sexual context. Again, consult your legal adviser before fucking intoxicated persons.
7. No, a contract between you and your SO describing consent isn't going to save you when you shoot her up with Oxycodone and take her unawares. You can't contract away your criminal liability. If you are inclined to seek written protection I would suggest a post-coital written acknowledgment that the sex was consensual. (Even this won't technically do, since your SO was unable to give his/her consent when the act took place and I am not aware of any retroactive consent exception in criminal law). Still, seeing this prosecuted is highly unlikely. Unless she dies. Then you are looking at rape and murder which would be a "special circumstances" crime in many states in the United States and carry the death penalty. (But consult your legal adviser).
Play safe, kids.
1. While I don't know what jurisdiction we are talking about, likely the boyfriend the Original Poster described committed rape, and likely the lesser included offense of sexual assault, according to the letter of the law. Very serious charges.
2. I find it very hard to imagine any circumstance in which this case would be prosecuted- even IF the girlfriend filed charges. (Though I was a litigator in the U.S. for several years- I no longer practice so I am not your lawyer. Please consult your own legal advisers before fucking incapacitated people).
3. The Original Poster is not reacting, in my opinion, out of a selfless concern for the girl's well being. The girl, according to the facts we have, doesn't seem to mind. She is not offended. It was relayed as a tale of interest, not a shocking horror. So do we prosecute (either in the courts or the court of public opinion or the court of vigilante justice) a crime where the victim doesn't seem to think one has occurred? Funny, wouldn't it be, if a bunch of users on a drug focused forum wanted to vigorously prosecute a victimless crime? The Original Poster needs to do some serious self-reflection on why he is so up in arms over this. Sounds more like he would disapprove of her having any sexual relationship with anyone. But since that's not something that can be voiced (to himself or to others) the fact that he can now demonize the boyfriend (who he likely envies) probably has more to do with the outrage here than anything else.
4. Yes, if you fellatiate your boyfriend into a wakeful state you have probably committed second or third degree sexual assault according to the letter of the law (but see section 2 and my disclaimer above).
5. Yes, if you wake your girlfriend with penetration you have probably committed rape according to the letter of the law. (Consider, what if she woke up and was horrified and wanted you to stop immediately? Clearly, you didn't have her consent when you started. You couldn't have.)
6. I think it's safe to say that if you would be impaired enough to be under the influence for purposes of traffic laws, then you are unable to give your consent in a sexual context. Again, consult your legal adviser before fucking intoxicated persons.
7. No, a contract between you and your SO describing consent isn't going to save you when you shoot her up with Oxycodone and take her unawares. You can't contract away your criminal liability. If you are inclined to seek written protection I would suggest a post-coital written acknowledgment that the sex was consensual. (Even this won't technically do, since your SO was unable to give his/her consent when the act took place and I am not aware of any retroactive consent exception in criminal law). Still, seeing this prosecuted is highly unlikely. Unless she dies. Then you are looking at rape and murder which would be a "special circumstances" crime in many states in the United States and carry the death penalty. (But consult your legal adviser).
Play safe, kids.
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fatallyflawed
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2005
- Messages
- 5,651
Johny Boy said:
no johnnyboy my points arent null.....u just dont get it
For starters did u know that gettin a male raped case is harder because of our sexual organs (THATS Y U SAY FEMANIST FEMALE BIAST BS WHEN ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT)
U can RAM your dick into a female,there is no need for her to be responsive, THE MALE PENIS MUST BE ERECT SO THAT IT MAY PENETRATE WHATEVER....
so if u will thats kinda of where we as guyz are screwed cause hard dick means we wanted it. Being woken up by a BJ is also still in nature not startin out as rape and cant even slightly be takin in that light, he can still respond and say no and he's not drugged out.
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
^ [edit: for Swiss Banker]
+1. Awesome post. Would mod up if this was Slashdot
To all the people whining about a double standard. There is no double standard. A woman who started performing oral sex on her bf while he was asleep would be committing sexual assault. However, see paragraphs 2 and 3 of Swiss Banker's post where he (she?) clearly explains why this wouldn't be prosecuted, especially if the putative victim didn't mind.
[Swiss Banker, as an aside/derail: are you familiar with the case in the UK where a group of men engaged in extreme, but consensual, S&M sex were convited of assault on each other?]
+1. Awesome post. Would mod up if this was Slashdot
To all the people whining about a double standard. There is no double standard. A woman who started performing oral sex on her bf while he was asleep would be committing sexual assault. However, see paragraphs 2 and 3 of Swiss Banker's post where he (she?) clearly explains why this wouldn't be prosecuted, especially if the putative victim didn't mind.
[Swiss Banker, as an aside/derail: are you familiar with the case in the UK where a group of men engaged in extreme, but consensual, S&M sex were convited of assault on each other?]
GenericMind
Bluelighter
All of this rationalizing is kind of a turn-off.
supertrav77
Ex-Bluelighter
What ever happened to this is none of our business?
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
9mmCensor said:
I agree with you that this will happen, and also that it is wrong.
supertrav77
Ex-Bluelighter
QuestionEverything, this is so typical of you.
Oh really? Care to elaborate?
Yes, honey, we know you said it before but just saying it doesn't make it so. What we want to know his HOW. Tell us HOW are they different.
FINALLY!!!
It took you three posts but at last you've finally made an attempt at actually explaining the difference.
But for someone who has lectured me AT LENGTH to only argue with facts and never make generaliztions no matter how bleeding obvious, you seem to have no problem making them when it suits you.
+10 points for finally elaborating.
-50 points for hypocrisy
OK, so I did not read that last post? I just made it up?
So now you try to justify making generalizations by insisting that the men on this thread are representative of all men. If you're going to make generaliztions, OWN THEM. Take those generaliztions to your bosom and declare that while flawed they still hold within them many great great truths.
-10 points. You retracted your elaboration from that last point so we're now back to square one.
Still waiting to hear what the difference between putting a sleeping person's dick in your mouth a fucking an unconscious girl. Maybe with this next post...
Still waiting...
QuestionEverything said:9mm, I understand the fine line you're pointing out here, but seriously, waking someone up for sleepy sex or blowjobs is a far cry from fucking your girl while she's completely unconscious from drugs.![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Oh really? Care to elaborate?
QuestionEverything said:
Yes, honey, we know you said it before but just saying it doesn't make it so. What we want to know his HOW. Tell us HOW are they different.
QuestionEverything said:
FINALLY!!!
It took you three posts but at last you've finally made an attempt at actually explaining the difference.
But for someone who has lectured me AT LENGTH to only argue with facts and never make generaliztions no matter how bleeding obvious, you seem to have no problem making them when it suits you.
+10 points for finally elaborating.
-50 points for hypocrisy
QuestionEverything said:
OK, so I did not read that last post? I just made it up?
So now you try to justify making generalizations by insisting that the men on this thread are representative of all men. If you're going to make generaliztions, OWN THEM. Take those generaliztions to your bosom and declare that while flawed they still hold within them many great great truths.
-10 points. You retracted your elaboration from that last point so we're now back to square one.
Still waiting to hear what the difference between putting a sleeping person's dick in your mouth a fucking an unconscious girl. Maybe with this next post...
QuestionEverything said:
Still waiting...
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9mmCensor
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 4,956
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=5136676&postcount=33supertrav77 said:
supertrav77
Ex-Bluelighter
9mmCensor said:
I couldn't agree more.
Swiss Banker
Bluelighter
Sim0n said:^ [edit: for Swiss Banker]
+1. Awesome post. Would mod up if this was Slashdot
To all the people whining about a double standard. There is no double standard. A woman who started performing oral sex on her bf while he was asleep would be committing sexual assault. However, see paragraphs 2 and 3 of Swiss Banker's post where he (she?) clearly explains why this wouldn't be prosecuted, especially if the putative victim didn't mind.
[Swiss Banker, as an aside/derail: are you familiar with the case in the UK where a group of men engaged in extreme, but consensual, S&M sex were convited of assault on each other?]
No, I have not heard of that case, but it doesn't surprise me. Most sexual assault laws are designed (even unwittingly) to enforce conventional and conservative notions of sex. This is understandable. Try to find a legislator (even a more socially liberal legislator) who would be publicly sympathetic to the S&M crowd and write in "pre-consent" or "retroactive consent" exceptions to sexual assault laws. Of course, the victim's groups would be on the warpath, claiming this was an assault on women, that it is an offense to women's rights, that it perpetuates a male dominated world... you get the idea.
Remember, most of these rape and sexual assault laws that are on the books today were put there in two phases in the United States. First, in the late 60s and early 70s during the Warren court and the sexual revolution. Second, in the mid-late 80s through the early 90s during the "sexual harassment" crazy. They are designed with the assumption that women and children are the victims and they are very woman and children-centric as a result. Nothing wrong with that. Certainly, by the numbers women and children are far more impacted than adult men by sexual assault and rape. But the result is this sort of zero-tolerance effect where you never NEVER assume consent. It has to be express or implied. It is never assumed. If there is nothing present to INDICATE consent, then it does not exist (even if it did).
Frankly, I don't think there is a better way you could write the law. Unfortunately, the effect is that the largest part of the law and its application becomes prosecutorial discretion. As soon as you head in that direction then you get selective enforcement of a law that everyone is breaking already to effectuate a social agenda. (Anti S&M in the case you cite above- as I am willing to bet none of the participants were willing to testify and that more rational notions of "consent" were met).
[Edit:] Remember that laws are implemented by men and women. The more room you leave the more danger you create.
Play safe, kids.
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
Here's a write up (would have linked earlier, but hard to find; do you know how hard it is to do a worksafe search for something like this? :D). Basically, they got done for causing actual bodily harm, it was held that consent wasn't a defence against that charge. Have a read, quite interesting.
QuestionEverything
Bluelight Crew
supertrav, once again, if you want to discuss something, discuss it. If you have something of value to add, you can certainly do it in an adult manner.
Legally speaking starting a blowjob while my husband is sleeping is assault, but that doesn't make it the same as the situation the OP has presented us with. Legally, reaching over and giving him a hand job would be too. Every situation is different, every situation has it's own specifics. They're two totally different scenarios, while legally they may be called the same thing, that does not make them so. If it did, there would be no need to present evidence and hear the specifics of every case, we'd just sentence people based on the act.
My comment regarding men being ok with their women riding them while unconscious was in response to the earlier comments in this thread. Unconscious in that scenario also = sleeping, not knocked out cold on drugs, which is another big difference IMO. Does it matter whether it's drugs or just being asleep? That's another question that depends a lot on specifics. Deconstruct all you want.
Comparing the two (or three or four or however many hypothetical situations you want to bring up) is not an option in my opinion because of that.
Legally speaking starting a blowjob while my husband is sleeping is assault, but that doesn't make it the same as the situation the OP has presented us with. Legally, reaching over and giving him a hand job would be too. Every situation is different, every situation has it's own specifics. They're two totally different scenarios, while legally they may be called the same thing, that does not make them so. If it did, there would be no need to present evidence and hear the specifics of every case, we'd just sentence people based on the act.
My comment regarding men being ok with their women riding them while unconscious was in response to the earlier comments in this thread. Unconscious in that scenario also = sleeping, not knocked out cold on drugs, which is another big difference IMO. Does it matter whether it's drugs or just being asleep? That's another question that depends a lot on specifics. Deconstruct all you want.
Comparing the two (or three or four or however many hypothetical situations you want to bring up) is not an option in my opinion because of that.