Anonymous Post: Is this assault?

[QuestionEverything]

First of, you're deliberately misinterpretting the question. I'm not talking about "Hey, honey. Hey, honey, wake." "Hmmm.. What is it?" "Hey honey, do you wanna have sex?" "Oh sure, OK". That's not what I'm talking about and you know it. I never said anything about the person being a partner. That is an invention of your own.

I did.

QuestionEverything seems to think it is OK to violate someone if the victim is EVENTUALLY able to give their consent.

No, I don't. I would appreciate it if you didn't try to speak for me.

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that being violated while completely unconscious could be less damaging psychologically because the person would not have any memories of the incident. Waking up with your dick in someone's mouth could be horrifying.
If I woke up and saw my cock in Rosanne Barr's mouth, you can be sure that my therapist will be getting ring in the morning.

Waking up and having absolutely no idea what happened to you could be just as horrifying. I don't see your point here.

 

[supertrav77]

Waking up and having absolutely no idea what happened to you could be just as horrifying. I don't see your point here.

Well, that is my point. That's what I've been trying to say all along. In response to statements of yours like this

9mm, I understand the fine line you're pointing out here, but seriously, waking someone up for sleepy sex or blowjobs is a far cry from fucking your girl while she's completely unconscious from drugs.

And this...

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, waking up your partner to sleepy sex or a morning blowjob is a far cry from fucking someone while they lay there remaining unconscious. Biased feminist BS? Give me a break.8(

If it can be waking up and not knowing what's going on can be "just as horrifying", then the two are really not "a far cry" from each other, are they?

So yeah. THAT is my point.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Actually, yes, they are. While you would rather make it Roseanne Barr, I (and the people I was responding to) were talking about their partner. Once again, there is another difference when you're talking about a complete stranger waking you up versus your partner.

 

[supertrav77]

Actually, yes, they are. While you would rather make it Roseanne Barr, I (and the people I was responding to) were talking about their partner. Once again, there is another difference when you're talking about a complete stranger waking you up versus your partner.

Yeah, but the OP was also talking about their partner and you still found the idea repellent. In your mind, it made no difference.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Again, you're ignoring the fact that she was knocked out on drugs, not just sleeping. Would you like to continue going in circles? If so, you can chase your own tail.

 

[supertrav77]

This is like the Indomitable Spirit sketch from Mr. Show. You'll come SO CLOSE to getting it and then you say something that shows you don't get it at all.
I think I can walk away from this without feeling as though I've lost any face.

I retire from this thread!!!

 

[Iculdb3....]

I REALLY MUST have little respect for myself. Give me a break. I said IF. Hypothetical. How dare you pass judgment based on a solitary response to a thread.

.

Well its called having a opinion really. I was not Judging you and I know you said IF and that is my point.

I feel it was just a bit of a strange thing to say really..

"You wouldn't mind" "Just to see what it felt like!"
Look i guess its up to the person really...

Sorry if i caused any offence, It wasn't intentional.

 

[JLaFee]

Untill you have (and I have for 4 years) work with rape victims you will have little understanding about how they think!!

If you've been working with rape victims for 4 years, wouldn't you have prior experience with situtations like these and be able to determine what is and isn't considered rape?

 

[Ishtar_Isis]

I'll disclose a personal experience that I believe has particular relevance to this thread.

Many years ago I Overdosed......... Wasn't taken to the ER, rather kept in a room with some very dubious people around me, spose in some form of attempt to make sure I didn't die on their time.

Point being -
WHEN I STARTED TO COME AROUND MY PANTS WHERE DOWN AND I HAD TWO GUYS WITH THEIR DICKS OUT MOLESTING ME. WHEN I BECAME PROGRESSIVELY MORE CONSCIOUS AND AWARE (IN A SHORT TIME SPAN) THE GUYS QUICKLY PUT THEIR DICKS AWAY, PULLED UP MY PANTS AND LEFT THE ROOM.

That's the bit that I CAN recall. There was another person around the house, but not in the room where i was OD'ing. When I was fully alert and orientated I asked the other person (chick, who wasn't involved in the incident in the room) WHAT HAPPENED?????????? She wouldn't tell me, she said I'd be better off if she didn't say, but she said it was pretty horrible.

I have total recall of what I already described above, not god forbid what the hell they were doing to me while I WASN'T CONSCIOUS. When I came out of the OD I was kicking and fighting the guys off................. Later on it was obvious that they had sex with me (based on the physical signs anyone woman experiences after sex without a condom, plus all the bruises on my body).

Now, I pose the question - if this wasn't rape, what the hell is???????????

I was unconscious, unconsenting.

Food for thought for some of the posters who have tried to rationalise fucking a woman when she's out of it.

Isis

 

[JB]

^Sorry for your horrible experiance, that was definalty rape but it has no bearing on the op's post as it's a hughly different encounter.

 

[Mariposa]

Isis, I am so sorry that happened to you - how awful.

I am absolutely astonished that anyone would have the audacity to compare fooling around between a couple who is used to regular, consensual sexual activity (i.e., the morning blowjob) in which one partner wants to wake the other partner up in a nice way.

I told my partner about this thread and asked him if he'd be pissed off if I woke him with a blowjob. I'm pretty sure you can guess what his answer was - with the caveat that if for whatever reason he told me to stop, that I would. (As in, if he were to wake up with explosive diarrhea, he would not want me to continue.)

What happens when a woman (or man) is incapable of giving consent? It's assault, plain and simple. It annoys me that certain posters in this thread are resorting to straw man analogies and insulting the moderators who are only trying to do their jobs.

The real issue here is that of consent. What makes the blowjob incident transcend this? Consent, in a relationship in which the participants regularly have sex with each other, is never wholly implied - but a liberty such as waking your partner up with fellatio is not even in the REALM of a violent (yes, violent) and premeditated act as drugging someone to the point they are unable to give consent. The latter is disgusting.

I cannot believe the lack of foresight and human decency I'm seeing exhibited here. I would bow out of this thread were it not for people whose opinions I respect and who have had the courage to speak up, because I haven't been this disgusted by something I've read on Bluelight in a long time.

I highly suggest that those who consider this anything other than rape, even though I agree with Swiss Banker that the likelihood of a successful prosecution is slim to none, invest in a bit of common sense. Screw sensitivity training. Take a course in simple logic. Some of the more astute CEP regulars would have an absolute field day with you.

 

[Samadhi]

and premeditated act as drugging someone to the point they are unable to give consent. The latter is disgusting.

Do we know for a fact that he drugged her with the intention of having sex with her without her consent? I'm under the assumption that the 2 people are, in fact, in a:

couple who is used to regular, consensual sexual activity

.

It's not a good situation, but to start insinuating that he did this is really jumping the gun, IMO.

 

[happyus]

i personally feel if the girl involved in the situation has no problem with it, then there is nothing to discuss- regardless of how the op may see the situation, that the actions of the male were wrong and immoral, at the end of the day if the female does not regard herself as a victim then there is no crime. Yes if the police were involved they may be able to prove sex without consent, but as the op has said noone (either themselves nor the female) is contacting the police.

i was in a position where consent was not given and sexual pleasure was taken by force, unfortunately for me i was concious- i can understand how and why the op feels as outraged as they do (if it was me i'd be shaking some sense into me friend!) but you can't force anyone to do anything.

i've woken up the next day with my partner and we've obviously had sex but i don't remember it (mainly due to my copious consumption of drugs and alcohol)- but i don't see this as rape because i trust that at the time of doing the act i was consenting, i don't think he'd get his jollys off from an unconcious person. every time he's told me exactly what i've said or how i've initiated sex, i just don't remember- or sometimes i can be asleep and initiate sex, both of these situations by law i have been unable to make reasonable judgement and by law he has raped me multiple times, but life isn't as clean cut as we would like it to be and the law most defiantely isn't.

 

[chopped_chimp]

To the OP.

Based on the evidence you've provided, IN MY OPINION it's fine. Your friend has said she doesn't have a problem with it. End of story.

If my girlfriend decided to fuck me while I was spaced out on drugs I would not care. I don't sleep in a bed with someone that I don't want fucking me. She has an access all areas pass to fuck me whenever she wants.

You seem to have it in for her boyfriend for reasons separate from this "kinky" incident. I suggest you talk with her about the real reasons you don't like this guy.

Once again, this is my opinion only. I love waking up while being fucked. If I didn't wake up then I'd be happy that my GIRLFRIEND enjoyed herself.

 

[vibr8tor]

i personally feel if the girl involved in the situation has no problem with it, then there is nothing to discuss- regardless of how the op may see the situation, that the actions of the male were wrong and immoral, at the end of the day if the female does not regard herself as a victim then there is no crime. Yes if the police were involved they may be able to prove sex without consent, but as the op has said noone (either themselves nor the female) is contacting the police.

exactly. if I leave my bag sitting around the house and my b/f occasionally takes $5 out of it when he's short, tells me later, and I say "Ok, thanks for letting me know!" is it theft? I'm sure that technically it could be considered that, but if I'm ok with it, it sure as fuck isn't anyone elses business to step in and report it.

my b/f and I love taking advantage of each other when we're effed up. there have been occasions when I've actually said to him ahead of time "Please don't go down on me when I get in the k hole" and sometimes he ignores my limits. He knows that's ok, because he knows I think it's hot to be used as his fucktoy. It works both ways. I've done things to him that he tells me not to do, and he doesn't necessarily remember after the fact, but when he finds out he's ok with it. It's all about knowing each other and knowing how your partner will behave in a situation where he/ she has complete control and you have none. If you can't be certain that the person won't way over-step your limits, you should avoid going there at all.

 

[Misogynist]

Look I know guys that have told me about waking up to their girlfriend taking a ride or paying special attention to them. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If she was raped then so were these guys. Thing is, being that they are guys, they didn’t mind. They certainly didn’t think of it as rape.

This one is really all about how she perceived the situation. They are together. Presumably they have sex regularly. I doubt he thought he was raping her since they are already consensual partners. For whatever reason maybe that turned him on, and afterwards the idea may have turned her on as well. In the end she didn’t mind so I don’t see the problem.

Obviously if a stranger had done this to her or someone with whom she did not share this type of relationship then things would be different and I imagine she would feel differently about it. However she seems to feel comfortable with the idea that her boyfriend did this so if she’s fine with it then that’s their business. If not then she should address it in the way she deems appropriate. However, I hardly think her boyfriend can be looked upon as a criminal for this.

 

[QuestionEverything]

response from anonymous

Thanks for your replys to my post, I appreciat your input on this difficult subject.

If you've been working with rape victims for 4 years, wouldn't you have prior experience with situtations like these and be able to determine what is and isn't considered rape?

AGAIN BY LAW I KNOW THIS WAS RAPE!!! Also there are multiple stages in the recovery process from such an insident ... I do not work as the first port of call but rarther provide long term support within a hospital. Very different situations to someone telling you 'I think I was rape'. However the fundimental thought patterns that go through a rape victims head are simmelar and denial causes big problems.

However it is clear from the responses that there is a difference in opinions between what is and isn't acceptable within a relationship where there is normally consensual sex.

As I previously stated "My issue is a personal MOREL dilemma!" So irrespective of what the girl in question feels I had to make a decision as to whether or not I wanted to remain friends with the guy in question.

Yes the girl in question has no issue with what happened and IMO that is good as it is unlikely to cause her any distress in the future! Which is MY NUMBER ONE PRIOETY!!! This does NOT change my PERSONAL MORAL standards as to what is acceptable whether you are in a relationship or not!!

There is clearly a misunderstanding within this thread between Four very different situations.

First situation: man/woman wakes up the other person with morning sexual activities and they are NOT in a relationship!

Second situation: man/woman wakes up the other person with morning sexual activities and they are NOT in a relationship and 'knock out drugs have been consumed by the sleeping person!

Third situation: man/woman wakes up the other person with morning sexual activities and they ARE in a relationship.

Fourth situation: man/woman wakes up the other person with morning sexual activities and they ARE in a relationship and 'knock out drugs have been consumed by the sleeping person!

Where drugs had be consumed IF the intention of the person was to drug the other for the purpose of sex then this IS RAPE.

If the drugs had been consumed as part of a "fun" evening and the person tried to wake the other with morning sexual activities then this is down to (IMO) personal interpretation and morals as to whether or not you think it is rape.

With out any drugs involved and both parties are in a relationship again this is down to (IMO) personal interpretation and morals as to whether or not you think it is rape.

And the same goes for if they are not in a relationship. Although IMO this is much more of an issue!

At the end of the day it is, has been and only ever will be up to 'the victim' to decide whether or not they have been violated. Personal opinions does not change 'the victims' decision and nor should it! (OK so the law may prosecut some one even though 'the victim' testifys other wise but that is a floor in the law)

However irrespective of what 'the victim' decides, one is entitled to there personal opinions and if you so feel that 'the victim' has indeed been violated it is then UP TO YOU if you remain in contact with the perpetrator from a MORAL point of view.

 

[GenericMind]

I'm glad I don't have any nosey friends like you.

 

[Ishtar_Isis]

What happens when a woman (or man) is incapable of giving consent? It's assault, plain and simple. It annoys me that certain posters in this thread are resorting to straw man analogies and insulting the moderators who are only trying to do their jobs.
The real issue here is that of consent.

Thanks for your support regarding my experience. It happened 13 years ago, so I'm well and truly over it!

I highlight Mariposa's post, as I absolutley agree with her sentiments about this thread. The reason why I posted my experience, while an extreme example, is because of some of the apparently misinformed opinions expressed by some of the posters. These posts do nothing to further the issue of the original post, especially pertaining in to consent.

I reinforce again the ISSUE OF CONSENT. I do believe my post has relevance to the thread. Yes it is an extreme example, however if some of the less insightful posters follow the logical ladder they espouse, this kind of extreme event may indeed occur. I know it's the thin edge of the wedge, and that the ABSOLUTE MAJORITY OF MEN AND WOMEN are incredibly respectful of their partners wishes.

I hope as a community (SLR) we can further this thread with some positive and constructive debates. We won't all agree of course, however discussion of varying points of view is vital in coming to further understanding and raising consciousness amidst a plurality of individuals!

X Isis

 

[QuestionEverything]

Ishtar, your experience has just as much to do with the OP's as any of the other situations that have been posed. Perhaps even more so because it actually happened.

I, too, am sorry that you had to experience such a traumatic event.

GM, this information was shared with the OP by the woman. It's pretty obvious by the posts in this thread there are a wide variety of opinions on such topics, can you really fault him/her for asking for advice?