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Annhilating Inactive LSD Isomers

swilow

swilow

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This is a theoretical question, based in part on the age old 'dirty acid' question. If I had a feasibly large amount of LSD stored badly for a lengthy time- conditions being perhaps fluctuating low to high temepertures- I would end up with a lot of the inactive lumi-LSD and iso-LSD (correct?)...If I have a feasible amount of LSD, would soaking the LSD substrate (blotter perhaps) in solution of some sort 'extract' all the ergoline molecules? Well, I'll assume yes... so you would have a solution of LSD, lumi-LSD and iso-LSD....how to rid the cruddy isomers from it? Is it possible at all?
 
Someone that has access to a university library should be able to give you the details.

Long ago when I was a student I saw both journal articles and patents that described both separation of iso-LSD from LSD as well as isomerization of iso-LSD to LSD.

Can't remember any details, but I think it was a simple process - maybe column chromatography on alumina (almost certainly basic alumina, not sure how basic or what grade). I think the general idea is that the epimerization is base catalyzed. If basic alumina can both separate and epimerize LSD and iso-LSD, and if you chromatograph the separated iso-LSD fraction again you tilt the dynamics and will in the process get some equilibrium epimerization of a pure iso fraction back to some LSD as well as simultaneous separation of the two "new" fractions. But again that is just a guess, I don't remember the details but I know I've seen a process somewhere.
 
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Column chromatography is the only way--migration of the solvent front on the column has to be visualized with near-UV light. I doubt that it would be worth the effort and possible loss of precious lysgeramides. I would actually really like to test things like iso-LSD for activity. I can't imagine that iso-LSD is completely and utterly inactive; perhaps it is simply an order of magnitude or two less active, like other ergoloids.
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
are these isomers wholly inactive?
Click to expand...

Psychologically (in terms of psychedelic activity) yes; in terms of physical activity on the body, no. This is possibly what gives old/degraded acid a more physically 'dirty' feel


Can't remember any details, but I think it was a simple process - maybe column chromatography on alumina (almost certainly basic alumina, not sure how basic or what grade).
Click to expand...

The method I read was column chromatography using zeolite, which isn't just basic alumina as far as I'm aware (think Kemp used zeolite in his synthesis & he produced some of the purest LSD ever seized by law enforcement)
 
Riemann Zeta said:
Column chromatography is the only way--migration of the solvent front on the column has to be visualized with near-UV light.
Click to expand...
??? That is quite unusual. Normally, the migration is checked with an extern chromatogram by simply performing a TLC of your SC-fractions. Or did I get you wrong?
I won't expose the LSD this much to light, especially not to (near)-UV, due to the instability of that molecule.
 
Psychologically (in terms of psychedelic activity) yes; in terms of physical activity on the body, no. This is possibly what gives old/degraded acid a more physically 'dirty' feel
Click to expand...

Would you think that, perhaps, the breakdown isomers (woo!) have more adrenergic effects? The feeling of dirty acid, as such, can be similar to the sensations of a large adrenaline burst in da legs.
 
^ I'd need to see the receptor affinities for d-iso-LSD et al, but I have a feeling in my waters (nothing to do with my prostate & the aging process! =D) that they still interact with most of the receptors LSD does, just not the 5HT2a receptor
 
Separation is only feasible with really good TLC plates with alot of time and material to waste to optimise the separation, or HPLC, which is 70k.

I havve separated iso-LSD and LSD on regular TLC paper with 100% EtOH if I am not mistaken.
 
to convert iso to normal the standard is to run a methanol solution run through basic activity 1 alumina column, coversion is very high. the iso to normal ratio is also a solvent effect, different solvents different ratios between iso and normal

converting the lumi compound back to normal ergoline is very difficult even with a well equipped lab. so converting to iso to the lumi is just a waste, without conversion it can be epimerized to the normal, but once it is luminated it is gone.

Tlc can separate iso from normals even crap plates because the iso is much more non polar. methanol chloroform or methanol DCM seem to be used frequently, once the tlc has run then it is plate scraping.
 
depends on how much you have to work with. if we're only talking a few hits you'll never be able to run a column that accurately. if you've got a gram of vintage dutch crystal then yeah, as has been mentioned, methanol + alumina column.

fluctuating temperatures shouldn't a huge issue as long as we aren't talking +35*C for protracted periods

what will really fuck your xtal is oxygen and fullspectrum light.
 
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