Anesthesiologists testify on new use of drug in Florida’s lethal injections

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On Sept. 1, 61-year-old Manuel Valle is set to become the first Death Row inmate executed in Florida using a three-drug cocktail that includes the barbiturate pentobarbital.

. . .

Dr. David Waisel, who practices at Children’s Hospital in Boston, testified for Valle’s defense that the drug could cause inmates severe pain. Pentobarbital is used as a sedative and for certain patients with seizures or undergoing procedures that could affect the brain, he said, but the drug’s use to knock someone unconscious has not been extensively studied.

“We’re taking a drug that we know everything about, replacing it with a drug that we know almost nothing about,” he said. If the drug doesn’t work as intended, Waisel testified, inmates could feel the third drug in the lethal injection that causes cardiac arrest.

“They would feel the incredibly burning pain of potassium chloride,” he said, describing the possibility as a “probably hellish” experience.

The prosecution’s expert, Dr. Mark Dershwitz of the University of Massachusetts Memorial Medical Center, countered that the state’s lethal-injection dose of pentobarbital — five grams — is so large that it would cause the inmate’s breathing to become erratic, blood pressure to slow dramatically and brain activity to diminish.

“This dose is far in excess of any dose that would be used on a human that I can think of,” he said, testifying via video conference.
Would the dose be lethal? asked Ken Nunnelley, a senior assistant attorney general.

“Definitely,” Dershwitz said.

Earlier in the case, lawyers for Valle had brought up the June 16 Alabama execution of Eddie Duval Powell. A lawyer for Powell testified last week that he saw Powell jerk up, clench his jaw and look confused for about a minute before passing out and later dying.

On Tuesday, Waisel, the defense’s anesthesiologist, mentioned the June 23 Georgia execution of Roy Blankenship.

Waisel was not present at the execution, but concluded from interviewing a witness and reviewing other witnesses’ sworn statements — some of whom said Blankenship grimaced, jerked up and mouthed words for up to three minutes after the injection was administered — that the pentobarbital had not worked as intended.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/02/2342423/doctors-testify-on-new-use-of.html#ixzz1TyN1Cc6w
 
I don't think anyone is going to be deterred from committing violent crimes by the possibility of lethal injection. So why do it? To punish the offender? What purpose does punishing the offender serve if the offender dies from the punishment?

I think if executions are not prohibitively painful--and public--we should not do them, for they will likely not prevent future crimes.

Moreover, since it's improbable to know if a condemned person truly committed a certain crime, I think executions should be carried out very infrequently: only when there is exhaustively irrefutable evidence that the condemned person committed the crime.
 
Nothing beats the guillotine en place publique to help the assistance enjoy the show. As to its efficacy to deter crime, that's another long story.
 
If the idea of judging a society by how it treats its worse criminals has any validity then america is fucked. I think execution is unecessary, a poor deterrent, very expensive and just a bad idea in general. Even if you're for the death penalty, I doubt you would be for murdering the mentally disabled or mentally ill for committing murder when they really should not be held accountable for their crimes in the same way as someone of sound mind, however unfortunately this still does happen over there in the US. It's barbaric and cruel and in my opinion should be abolished, since two wrongs have never made a right. I still find it hard to get my head around how the americans, a supposedly highly developed society, can actually allow their state to kill its own prisoners for their crimes! It should have been stopped so long ago and left to the history books IMO.

The issue of causing unecessary suffering just makes it all the worse, and serves no purpose than to take revenge. It's ironic though, since the person ceases to exist as a living conscious person, and doesn't have to continue suffering from their further incarceration. In effect, they're essentially put to sleep and no longer have to worry or suffer any more. If I were in prison for life I'd prefer to die myself, as it's the easy way out.
 
As John Lennon once said: Killing for peace is like fucking for virginity.
 
How about add 100 mg morphine so4 or 3-4 mg Iv Dilaudid. He might feel pain from the KCL but the combo- pento and opiates-
question is, if your gonna have a death penalty, why such striving to make it exceptionaly humane. I know the prohibition against "cruel and unsual punishement", But if your gonna have a death penalty- I've read hanging is the most merciful.

But all this is irrevalent- if your gonna have a death penalty (which I'm not a fan of) it needs to be gruesome and horrific enough to act as a deterent. But judging other countries in SE and far East asia that use the death penalty- its not a very effective deterent from commiting crimes- even China that had to develop mobile excecutiion vans to keep up with the demand.

Just speaking for the US- the current system is f-uped beyond belief- more of an angel of mercy, depite the agruments and protests to the contrary.

This country has got to release a major portion of those locked up (drug offenders) and lock up those that are actually dangerous to society- the current regiem is unsustainable- a luxury this countries bankrupt government can't afford.

if you believe in the death penalty- either make it gruesome and swift- for the deterent value or don't have it at all- we can't afford this nonesense. Pento for PO Euthanasia costs $1,000 plus in Oregon for medical of Euthanania. How bout 100 100 mg seconals ($100.00), PO with KCL IV if the job isn't done (and add like a 10 mg IM dose of before dilaudid to make sure your being merciful.)

Good people are getting inadequate medical care because of such nonesense debates.
 
Death is sad enough as it is, we humans have a limited time in our physical bodies. I don't see why anyone would want to go home everyday knowing they are just as responsible for murder as the people they killed.
 
For the record, i continue the whole legal process of excecution, the years drawn out and the being caged on death row more inhumane than the act of execution itself- again, after all that its an Angel of mercy. Question should be, is it much of a deterent? I think not, but what do i know.
 
^Texas death row inmates spend 23 hours per day in solitary confinement and are often there for 20 or more years. There was recently an article in which some were interviewed, apparently most of them are going crazy and one of the guys interviewed was pissed that he hadn't been executed yet, he just wanted to die. I'm against the death penalty but the one in America seems unusually barbaric.
 
The thing about murder or paedophilia for example, is that the crimes are so serious and the punishments so severe, that those that do commit them do not expect to ever get caught. I can't imagine someone ever deciding to kill someone or rape a baby for example because they give you life in prison and not the death penalty. If they have all their faculties then they'll be concentrating on not getting caught rather than the consequences of getting caught. Also, I don't see the point in incarcerating someone for a decade or more before killing them. To be effective the punishment has to be effected soon after conviction, which unfortunately would never be the case for capital punishment in the US. If they were to round the prisoners up immediately after punishment and immediately shoot the fuckers in the head publicly, then maybe recidivism rates would decline. I'd be interested in finding out if crime rates were any lower in the UK when they used to hang, draw and quarter them publicly where children would be allowed to witness the grusome execution for fun. Perhaps if people were 'educated' in such a way as children, they would be less inclined to commit murder later on in life, I don't know.

I've also heard of a punishment that purportedly was very effective in the vast majority of cases. It involved taking the offender and putting them in a tent full of cannabis smoke so that they would inhale hundreds or thousands of times the normal recreational dose all in one go. I've been told and read from a couple of sources that this had a near 100% success rate on preventing reoffending. Whether this is true, I don't know, but if it is it would be preferrable to actually taking someone's life. If we're considering killing someone then anything, no matter how outlandish, would be better if it costs less money and rehabilitates the offender whilst acting as a deterrent to others. Americans consist of only 5% of the world's population yet the prison system as it is in the US houses a quarter of the world's incarcerated population, so anyway they can cut costs would be a good thing with the state of the economy. Although the media over here concentrates on home affairs, I am still aware of the situation many normal americans are in, with many struggling to eat and homeless (including school children, which is sick). We've got it pretty bad here, but not that bad IMO as one's local council has a duty to provide housing, and generally does so relatively quickly in most cases. The welfare system in general (for the time being at least) is more robust here than over there afaik.

Anyway, I think if they really wanted to cut prison costs down they probably could do so in a more palatable way to the public, by stopping the imprisonment of no-violent drug users, but that's besides the point.
 
hmm, there are so many drugs that they could use, i wonder why they stick with something so antiquated like barbs...You would think a big ass dose of diiprovan would make it so the inmate wouldnt feel the KCl injection. What happened to beheading in the public square? We need to bring that shit back. Get your head chopped off in front of everyone? That would make a more stern deterrent than a painful injection minutes before you die.
 
I'm abolitionist toward the death penalty. 80% of my fellow Americans disagree with me.

There have been many studies done that analyze the appeals process before someone is executed. I cannot think of one where it was cheaper to execute the person than incarcerate them for even 50+ years, and that will only become more pronounced with the rise of the prison-industrial complex.

As for the interaction, I'd listen to the experienced doctors on this one. The Constitution still guarantees those who are condemned by the state or federal government to death the right to one that is free of suffering as possible. Hell, the warden even gives the condemned person a last meal and a meeting with the chaplain... not to mention, last words in a gallery with family and journalists who can then watch the person die!

jspun, with all due respect, comparisons between the death penalty for criminals and the State of Oregon's laws regarding euthanasia for the terminally ill are not so valid. I'm not an Oregon voter, but it got on the ballot and it passed. Two doctors must certify the mental competence of the individual in euthanasia scenarios in Oregon, and the person must self-administer the fatal cocktail. It is very controlled.

If you've got further questions on that, a good report is here:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/05death/death_with_dignity_report.htm

This also addresses the penalties for noncompliance with the Death with Dignity Act as to Oregon, but we're talking about Florida's lethal injection process here. Remember that Florida is the state where the electric chair started to (literally) misfire to the point where sparks flew out of the condemned's head, on more than one occasion - hence, the adoption of lethal injection. Perhaps the people who wanted a public display of justice should have stayed home and watched a reality show.

Regardless, it was inhumane for Florida to use a faulty circuit for execution, as found by the courts. This isn't exactly something that could go to a phase of feasibility testing. I remain opposed to the death penalty, and I'll defer to the anesthesiologists on what that cocktail of medications could actually do - beyond that it's clearly not a pleasant way to go.
 
'medicine cabinet' said:
hmm, there are so many drugs that they could use, i wonder why they stick with something so antiquated like barbs...You would think a big ass dose of diiprovan would make it so the inmate wouldnt feel the KCl injection. What happened to beheading in the public square? We need to bring that shit back. Get your head chopped off in front of everyone? That would make a more stern deterrent than a painful injection minutes before you die.
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Yea actually using a Guillotine would be the least painful and fastest way to do it i think. But i cant agree with the death penalty as long as the prosecution system/Laws are flawed.
 
i cannot believe people still support the death penalty, especially even when there is a tiny chance of wrongful conviction. to put it another way: if someone rapes your daughter,... does raping the rapists daughter afterward make you feel better? Is it the right thing to do?
 
An eye for an eye and the world goes blind i think is how it goes, but yea the legal system in this country is totally fucked, the cops and da's just want to make the case and seems to have no problem doing whatever is needed to make it happen. Since here you are really guilty before being proved innocent there are tons of ppl in jail and in the ground that either couldnt afford better representation or for whatever reason got railroaded. However, the death penalty is needed. Putting serial killers and mass murders with no remorse to death is kind of like a public service.
 
I think this lethal injection business possibly has zero deterrence value; I'd like to see evidence that a quiescent, invisible execution does make others less likely to commit capital crimes. On the other hand, an extremely painful death televised on all major networks may make someone think twice before killing. That such a form of painful execution is possibly unconstitutional means that the death penalty should be done away with entirely, and the families of prior executed persons be paid reparations.
 
If they were to round the prisoners up immediately after punishment and immediately shoot the fuckers in the head publicly, then maybe recidivism rates would decline. I'd be interested in finding out if crime rates were any lower in the UK when they used to hang, draw and quarter them publicly where children would be allowed to witness the grusome execution for fun. Perhaps if people were 'educated' in such a way as children, they would be less inclined to commit murder later on in life, I don't know.
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i think that that style of execution would make both the prisoners and the spectators more likely to commit violence.
I've also heard of a punishment that purportedly was very effective in the vast majority of cases. It involved taking the offender and putting them in a tent full of cannabis smoke so that they would inhale hundreds or thousands of times the normal recreational dose all in one go. I've been told and read from a couple of sources that this had a near 100% success rate on preventing reoffending.
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i've never heard of that, and i think it's a myth (at least, no contemporary nation would be doing it). LSD, psilocybin, and others, have been used to decrease recidivism, though, with success in some studies

see tim leary and those guys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_Prison_Experiment
 
I like it, Qwe.
Give the murderers psychedelic drugs until they feel remorse.
After all, drugs such as Ayahuasca have tortured my soul for comparatively minor misdeeds.
I can only imagine how horrible it would be to have murder on my conscience and be taken by Ayahuasca.... omfg, that would be hell.
Far, far worse than being executed, I suspect.
 
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