Anesthesiolgists and Addiction

Wtf? Do these people not get drug tested or something?

He's a piece of shit for using for those drugs while he's responsible for someone elses life. Fucking ridiculous.
 
In the article they mentioned that there is no true test for fentanyl. Which is complete BS considering that's the drug of choice for the anesthesiologists referenced in the article. They need to do something. Fast.

I don't know how he can live with himself after that. It's disgusting, it literally made me nauseous to think of.
 
Tests exist for fentanyl, a quick google shows at least one lab offering the service, from urine specimens via GC/MS of metabolites unique to fentanyl, not to mention the not inconsiderable amount excreted unchanged. I think they meant that it is not readily obtained by dipstick style immunoassay.

That being said: Newsflash, all sorts of people in life critical settings do drugs. What you would really need to show here is that of all people in the world, an anesthesiologist not being capable of judging a dosage for him or herself that would allow them to carry on their function safely. In any event, I would judge the physicians performance, not his substance use. It seemed to offer one or two story of dysfunctional hacks, albeit with no convincing evidence that he was such only by reason of his drug use. Along with this "the anesthesiologists most at risk of addiction are the best in the business. They tend to be young, ambitious, highly talented physicians who graduated at the top of their medical-school classes and are ranked among the most popular and requested at their hospitals."

Tl;dr it sounds like media hype.
 
Voxide said:
He's a piece of shit for using for those drugs while he's responsible for someone elses life. Fucking ridiculous.
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i'd prefer someone on maintenance to someone on withdrawal.

i'd prefer someone on opiates to someone taking new untested synthetics due to drug tests.

in a maintenance context, opiates don't impair coordination. many many surgeries have been performed by opiate addicts. iirc the doctor who first started using sterilizing operating rooms was one.
 
rangrz said:
Tests exist for fentanyl, a quick google shows at least one lab offering the service, from urine specimens via GC/MS of metabolites unique to fentanyl, not to mention the not inconsiderable amount excreted unchanged. I think they meant that it is not readily obtained by dipstick style immunoassay.

That being said: Newsflash, all sorts of people in life critical settings do drugs. What you would really need to show here is that of all people in the world, an anesthesiologist not being capable of judging a dosage for him or herself that would allow them to carry on their function safely. In any event, I would judge the physicians performance, not his substance use. It seemed to offer one or two story of dysfunctional hacks, albeit with no convincing evidence that he was such only by reason of his drug use. Along with this "the anesthesiologists most at risk of addiction are the best in the business. They tend to be young, ambitious, highly talented physicians who graduated at the top of their medical-school classes and are ranked among the most popular and requested at their hospitals."

Tl;dr it sounds like media hype.
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I didn't write the article therefore I don't have to prove anything.

I'm not trying to argue I'm just sharing an article I found interesting :)

Do you have proof that "all sorts of people in critical life situations do drugs"? That's a sweeping generalization.

Ethically speaking, anesthetists shouldn't be performing their job while under the influence. They teach this in med school and they have to agree to perform their duties in a responsible manner. It's a known fact that drugs lower inhibitions.

If they want to do drugs; have at it. Just not when they have a persons life in their hands. What if they OD unintentionally during surgery? They're responsible for another human being. It's a huge responsibility and they should be in the clearest state of mind while performing their duties.

I wouldn't want an anesthesiologist under the influence of drugs proofing care for me or a loved one that's for damn sure! Completely unprofessional.
 
hthr007 said:
In the article they mentioned that there is no true test for fentanyl. Which is complete BS considering that's the drug of choice for the anesthesiologists referenced in the article.
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Yea fentanyl was one of the drugs I was specifically tested for at the doctor I used to get perscribed pain meds from.
 
^ Okay, I correct, in my personal experience, I know a variety of drug users who are in life critical occupations. One is a physician, the others are unrelated and mainly in technical and engineering related fields where failure to control the workings of some gizmo or system could kill a hell of a lot more then a single person. So, yes only personal observation.

I was not demanding you prove anything; I was sort of targeting it towards the author of the article. I know they are not reading my comment, but that was the intent.

I would trust a competent Dr under the influence of a substance to care for me, esp if he or she was not afraid of getting caught and thus could exercise more caution.

What if they OD unintentionally during surgery?
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a) at least ideally, his or her assistant/nurse/resident, the surgeon and their residents/nurses/etc should be reasonably competent to maintain life-support in an unusual event like that. b) what if he had stroke or something? Same problem, same safeguard in place, at least if everyone is on point.
 
I believe any life is valuable. One person or hundreds of people, it is valuable to me.

I believe that if someone has a job where they are responsible for lives of others, they should perform this duty sober so they have a clear mind. Engineer, bus driver, taxi driver, physician, surgeon, etc.

The anest. Would not be able to work under the influence of drugs if others were aware; so they wouldn't really be on the same page because he'd be fired in a heartbeat! It's illegal. At least if the anest. Had a stroke while working, it wouldn't be illegal. Tragic yes but "legal" per say.

And yes you're correct the medical team present should be trained in what to do in an emergency circumstance such as the anesthetist falling Ill.

We have 2 separate opinions, Rangrz, It's what makes the world go round :)
 
If they want to do drugs; have at it. Just not when they have a persons life in their hands. What if they OD unintentionally during surgery? They're responsible for another human being. It's a huge responsibility and they should be in the clearest state of mind while performing their duties.
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you can't apply that logic to opiates and not anxiolytics and antidepressants. there is not much difference between being on maintenance on opiates, and being on maintenance on SSRIs or other medicines, imo.

if somebody ODs in the operating room, he's not a functioning/sustainable addict. he wouldn't have made it to that point in his career in the first place, he'd still just be chasing the rabbit ;)
 
I would vastly prefer to have an anesthesiologist sober, all else being equal.
But all else is never equal. As qwe pointed out, if s/he is going to be going through withdrawals, that is bad. So maybe a maintainence dose may be preferable.
Or, if he drinks coffee, I can deal with that. Unless s/he drinks too much coffee, and can't focus.
The real point is whether s/he can function at a high level. If s/he can do so with coffee actively coursing through his/her blood, that is okay with me. If with a stronger drug, it is also okay with me.
I am not talking about him/her believing (falsely) that everything is ok, but actually being ok.
It is not black and white, but a gray area.
That is why the law, and medical school, can't make rules that apply in all cases.
(Or, if they do, I will disagree in some cases.)
 
hthr007 said:
I believe that if someone has a job where they are responsible for lives of others, they should perform this duty sober so they have a clear mind. Engineer, bus driver, taxi driver, physician, surgeon, etc.
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You are implying that anyone under the influence of drugs cannot think clearly or do what is expected of their job. Guess what bro? You are wrong. I take 100mg of Methadone a day and I'm able to drive and function fine. When I was injecting heroin I was welding structural steel for skyscrapers in Manhattan. My Taxi driver of 3 years took Xanax and smoked a joint everyday before work and drove fine.

People ranging from cops, to scientists, to doctors, to surgeons, to construction workers, to soldiers use drugs. Most of the time these people are using drugs to become less stressed and to perform better at their job.

I personally would feel better if I was being put under by an Anesthesiologist who happened to be using the substances he was going to give me because he has a first hand understanding of how they work.
 
As long as someone is more than capable of doing there job under the influence I care not and nor should you.
 
-Guido- said:
As long as someone is more than capable of doing there job under the influence I care not and nor should you.
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That is what I meant with my post of "Judge his performance, not his personal habits"

From what I gather, all in, in the U.S./West in General for every million inductions there are 4 deaths attributed to the anesthesia. I don't think that seems at all unreasonable and I'd hazard a guess and say that these fellows, sober, high, whatever, are doing a damn fine job.
 
-Guido- said:
As long as someone is more than capable of doing there job under the influence I care not and nor should you.
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I'm perfectly capable of believing what I want to, I don't think It's your place to tell me not to care about a matter when it's evident that I do. Thank you.

I'm not trying to offend anyone.

All I did was post an article that I found interesting. I wasn't looking for an argument like most of you who posted on here seem to be by belittling me or making my opinion seem stupid. there's a way to have a discussion tactfully and still respect the other persons opinion rather than jumping down their throat when you have differing opinions.

This anesthesioloist fucked up, so CLEARLY he was NOT more than capable of doing his job under the influence. Big difference between a functioning user and a complete idiot which the doctor in the article proved to be. Two lives were lost due to his negligence and that's awful.

The surgeon my grandmother had fucked up because he was a dumbass for numerous reasons I prefer to not get into at the moment. It's something I feel strongly about.

When someone fucks up on the drugs s/he was using on a loved one and causes them to die then maybe your opinions will change.
 
rangrz said:
That is what I meant with my post of "Judge his performance, not his personal habits"

From what I gather, all in, in the U.S./West in General for every million inductions there are 4 deaths attributed to the anesthesia. I don't think that seems at all unreasonable and I'd hazard a guess and say that these fellows, sober, high, whatever, are doing a damn fine job.
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I was referencing the article, not anesthesiology as a whole. As a whole, they ARE doing a great job. More people come out of surgeries alive than never coming out.

My anesthesiologist was a god send. Did a lovely job.
 
-Guido- said:
You are implying that anyone under the influence of drugs cannot think clearly or do what is expected of their job. Guess what bro? You are wrong. I take 100mg of Methadone a day and I'm able to drive and function fine. When I was injecting heroin I was welding structural steel for skyscrapers in Manhattan. My Taxi driver of 3 years took Xanax and smoked a joint everyday before work and drove fine.
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No I was not implying that.

There are functioning users, "addicts", whatever. I take my daily dose of 60mg oxy and can drive and do my studies and job just fine.
 
slimvictor said:
I would vastly prefer to have an anesthesiologist sober, all else being equal.
But all else is never equal. As qwe pointed out, if s/he is going to be going through withdrawals, that is bad. So maybe a maintainence dose may be preferable.
Or, if he drinks coffee, I can deal with that. Unless s/he drinks too much coffee, and can't focus.
The real point is whether s/he can function at a high level. If s/he can do so with coffee actively coursing through his/her blood, that is okay with me. If with a stronger drug, it is also okay with me.
I am not talking about him/her believing (falsely) that everything is ok, but actually being ok.
It is not black and white, but a gray area.
That is why the law, and medical school, can't make rules that apply in all cases.
(Or, if they do, I will disagree in some cases.)
Click to expand...

This is the point I was trying to make.
 
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