Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
K, let me clarify. I should have said...entheogens that work fine orally.
Originally posted by Murple:
Injecting research chemicals of uncertain purity is a bad idea.
Obviously...you could even say injecting any chemicals of uncertain purity is a bad idea...
And still, people are going to be injecting chemicals no matter what, irregardless of what anyone in this world, or even what thier common sense tells them. This is also a statement of fact. So, rather than just criticize people in vain, why not at least try to help them stay as safe as possible?
Basically, instead of approaching from the angle of unwavering dogma and condescension, try one of harm reduction, it seems to work much better...
Brainrape
PS- Thanks for the AMT references
You want to trip shorter? Take less, or vaporize it, or take a shorter acting drug.
'Taking less', by all accounts, would do little to significantly reduce the length of the AMT high. And taking less (enough to really affect the length of the high) would probably reduce most of the subjective effects of the drug as well -- i.e. it would be pointless to take such a low dose. I am surprised that you even said such a thing -- 'taking less' doesn't do that much to reduce the length of the high, in general with drugs.
And I don't have a vaporizer (nor would I ever smoke AMT -- I'm not a fan of smoking things).
Basically, instead of approaching from the angle of unwavering dogma and condescension, try one of harm reduction, it seems to work much better...
Well said.
[ 04 May 2002: Message edited by: fairnymph ]
Originally posted by Brainrape:
Basically, instead of approaching from the angle of unwavering dogma and condescension, try one of harm reduction, it seems to work much better...
Harm reduction for shooting AMT: having a SOBER CPR-certified friend on hand to call 911 in case you OD.
---5HT-2
Originally posted by Ayrios:
How can you make such assumptions that it is so overwhelmingly dangerous when you've probably never even heard from someone who has IV'd it?
Better to be safe than sorry. A friend of mine took 27 mg *ORAL* AMT and this happened to her:
www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=13984
Just goes to show what kind of shit can go down even if you think you are being safe with your dosage. With IV'ing, of course, the potential for a fuckup like this is increased greatly. By the way, fairnymph, your needle fetish is really beginning to sicken me.
---5HT-2
Originally posted by Murple:
There is NO SAFE WAY to take experimental psychedelics by IV injection. The only harm reduction approach possible is to say "don't inject it, take it orally if you're going to take it." Sure, people are still probably going to do it, and its their choice, but if you think giving them a false sense of security by saying "the safe way to do it is..." counts as harm reduction, thats a serious abuse of the term "harm reduction."
I think my harm reduction strategy was viable. Having a CPR-trained friend on hand to call 911 is definitely harm reduction. It could mean the difference between life and death. Of course, you could die regardless due to the speed with which an IV dose kicks in.
Sure, you've got every right to inject AMT or anything else you want... just be aware that injecting experimental drugs you bought off the internet is a really really dumb idea that is highly dangerous. If you're worried about harm, DON'T DO IT! If that seems condescending to you, good... stupidity is not something that deserves respect.
I agree. It is an incredible act of stupidity to risk your life just to get a shorter high. If you think it isn't, then you need to reexamine your priorities. Anybody who values shooting up over their life deserves all the condescension that can be heaped on them.
AMT is not heroin or cocaine, its an experimental drug.
Moreover, AMT is NOT your typical tryptamine. It is the indole analog of amphetamine. Thus, it is a far more powerful stimulant than other tryptamines. Anybody who has experienced the shitty AMT come-up knows that it definitely fucks with your body more than the average psychedelic.
Harm reduction doesn't really apply to experimental drugs because you can't minimize the risks of the unknown other than by not taking the risk in the first place.
Decreasing the possibility of death in the event of an OD is definitely a form of harm reduction, though NOT the most effective one.
Research chemicals are fundamentally different from standard drugs because nobody really knows jack shit about them. If you want to do AMT harm reduction, come back in 5 to 10 years and maybe we'll know enough about it then to make an attempt at distributing harm reduction information.In my opinion, It'll take a lot more than 5 or 10 years for us to find out enough about AMT to really make possible any harm reduction that does not fall within the realm of dealing with a medical emergency.
---5HT-2
experimental drugs you bought off the internet
Originally posted by fairnymph:
Injecting 5 mg of AMT, could well be a much better high (with LESS NAUSEA no doubt), and as safe if not safer, than the 40 mg or so oral doses that plenty of people take regularly.
The nausea thing is a good point. AMT is the ONLY drug that has made me vomit aside from ayahuasca, and my drug experience encompasses 2C-T-7, 2C-B, 2C-I, LSD, mushrooms, 4-AcO-DET, 5-MeO-DIPT, 5-MeO-DMT, NN-DMT, salvia, MDMA, MDA, MBDB, marijuana, ketamine, coke, amphetamine, methylphenidate, 1,4-butanediol, heroin, and opium.
I am NOT considering injecting 30 mg or something ridiculous like that. And even with a dose of 5 mg, much of that dose could be stuck on the spoon/inside of needle and never even make its way into the bloodstream, so this is an even lower dose than it seems.
True.
I have *NEVER* gotten substantially fucked up from injecting a drug. I have gotten moderately high from IV meth once and IV coke once -- and both after I had IVed the drugs at sub-recreational amounts on numerous occasions. I got mildly high from IVing 15 mg 4-AcO-DET. I won't go into my experience with tryptamines, but I have taken them and found that my tolerance is naturally quite high.
Also true. You are definitely a very careful person with drugs in general.
I realize that this may not extend to AMT, but I do think it is possible I will feel very little from 5 mg IVed.
Be prudent and assume the former.
In any case, I am not looking to get "really fucked up" by IVing, and neither does my 'needle fetish' play into this.
While it is DEFINITELY true that you are not looking to get "really fucked up," you have a needle fetish and it definitely does play into this. You find people attractive if they have good veins, god damn it! When you met your current love interest, you were comparing veins with him (well, he's probably more than that) and ogling his track marks!!! And that's not a needle fetish?!?!?!?!?
I am looking to overcome some of the disadadvantages of other methods, so that I can have a mild, enjoyable experience.
While it is true that other methods have significant disadvantages, the risks of IVing outweigh them in my opinion. Remember that I have done AMT 4 times and you have not. It has more significant physiological side effects than any other tryptamine I've done.
If you think I am stupid for wanting to try this, then you are either a poor judge of intelligence/personality, or you do not know me very well.
I don't think you're stupid, you're just naïve. I saw 3 people overdose on 1,4-butanediol this Sunday and took care of two of them so I think I have a better perspective than you. I also have experienced some SERIOUS side effects from 80 mg AMT (but maybe that was because I had a mac & cheese dinner 6 hours before).
I won't reveal any personal details here, but I can think of times when both Murple and 5HT-2 have been just as, if not more so, experimental/risky with research chemicals/drugs.
The mac & cheese/80 mg AMT combo is a case in point (if AMT is truly a strong MAOI), and ironically enough, with the same drug. However, maybe my extremely tripping state made me think my situation was more serious than it actually was (probably because it was the first time I had vomited on a pure psychedelic compound).
If you think that "oh, it's ok for me, but not other people, they're too stupid" -- well then spare me the egotism and the hypocrisy. It is not, nor should it be, your place to make any value judgements about me or my behaviour.
I would NEVER, EVER IV AMT. It is NOT OK for me! As your friend it is my place to try to prevent you from doing something that may put your life in danger.
I have always extended the utmost respect to you both and I would appreciate it if you did the same.
I have always had the utmost respect for you, but if you act immature, be prepared to be chastised. I, my roommate, and Murple have the same opinion about this injecting AMT bullshit because we have seen and been through more than you in terms of drugs (and don't even TRY to dispute this). We've fucked up and we've learned from it. We claim the authority of experience.
---5HT-2