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Amt + mdai

C

cannibalsnail

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Sep 18, 2011
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This saturday I plan to combine AMT + MDAI. This trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...erienced-A-Night-with-Psykovsky-and-Tryptamin states that the combination worked well but I was curious if there were any serious dangers.

I know AMT is purportedly a MAOI but opinion on this seems heavily divided. Some people say it is by weight as strong an inhibitor of MAO as amphetamine or tryptamines (aka almost negligible) with multiple grams required to reach 50% MAO blockage. Obviously if it was a potent MAOI then the MDAI would be dangerous.

The second issue of contention is that MDAI is a Serotonin re-uptake inhibitor while AMT is a Serotonin releaser. This seems like a dangerous combo or am I misunderstanding the pharmacological action of these 2 chemicals?
 
Don't try this combo... seriously? Is this specific combo THAT important to you that you're willing to risk your life over speculation? Ugh
 
Not really. Just 2 chemicals available that I enjoy. And it needn't be speculation, there is a fairly decent understanding of how they both work and someone knowledgeable should be able to truly assess its harm potential. I'm aware of people taking MDMA while on SSRI's which should be as dangerous if not more so.
 
Both of these drugs are strong serotonin releasers. Given the limited information about both it's impossible to know if they interact in a synergistic way (i.e. the interaction might release far more serotonin than expected from the logic of simply adding the amount of serotonin released by each drug alone together). There's at least one report on Erowid of two people who combined aMT with MDMA (again, both serotonin releasers) and ended up unable to move for a few hours convinced they were going to die, presumably because of such an action. At the same time, others have used MDMA with aMT and been OK. You can't reliably know your individual reaction or the reaction of others to these monoamine releaser combos beforehand. I've personally experienced a synergy between aMT and 4-FA (another serotonin releaser), but had used a low dose of aMT because I was concerned about potential synergy. If you must try the MDAI combo, combine low doses of each a few times before you try to step up to recreational doses, and never suspect that what works for you will work the same way for your friends as it might end up killing them.

If you're looking for MDAI combos to make an ecstasy-like experience methylphenidate and amphetamine are probably safer choices.
 
For one thing, aMT is a releaser of serotonin norepinephrin and dopamine. And research has shown that MDAI taken with a dopamine releaser lowers dopamine/general monoamine levels, with significance and over extended periods.
And another things is that - if it were up to me - I'd consider these two drugs both too serotonergic to be a worthwhile endeavor. Sure there might be potentiation or synergy but I wouldn't really be interested. aMT feels like it has pronounced serotonin action and makes me chilled out, laid back, lethargic and even sleepy. I slept pretty much every time I went over 10 mg with it at some point during the trip. MDAI is also known to be primarily serotonergic, if much else at all and elicits somewhat similar effects of empathy but also the nice lethargy.
Maybe if I reacted more typically to aMT or got the impression that it is in fact structurally similar to amphetamine from the effects... maybe then MDAI would seem like a useful addition to me.

Who am I to judge others and their experiments but I don't think every MDAI combination is just as interesting just as an experiment for shits and giggles. No aMT and MDAI is not that far fetched, but just as a matter of reductio ad absurdum let me say that I don't think anything should be tried at least once by any person under the flag of science. I used to be like that but after some harsh lessons I changed my mind. Now I'd rather be selective and pursue what actually seems to have potential value and acceptable expected or calculated risk.

All in all, about this combination I am not overreacting and saying: are you crazy? GTFO... but instead I'd say: rather not, no thanks.

Anyway I'd also amend psood0nyms remark to methylphenidate and not amphetamine to combine with MDAI. And also other DARIs would be choice compounds.
 
I find AMT very stimulating. MDAI gives good euphoria (never tried MDMA so its as good as I know) but is very sedating. By combining the 2 I hope to achieve a euphoric, psychedelic experience that won't send me to sleep. It should also be less neurotoxic than actual MDMA due to lower Dopamine/norepinephrine release and no toxic metabolites. I'm not a fan of stims so don't have any MPH or AMPH. Not really interested in buying any either.
 
If you want to potentially risk serotonin syndrome by combining a possible MAOI with a potent serotonin releaser, I guess that's on you.

And it needn't be speculation, there is a fairly decent understanding of how they both work and someone knowledgeable should be able to truly assess its harm potential.
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Clearly not, since some combinations of AMT + MDMA have been potentially lethal and others haven't. AMT is a research chemical and we do not know enough definitively about it to accurately gauge its safety profile in combination with other drugs such as serotonin releasers. If you can give me citations for a very strong consensus on the MAOI properties of AMT and an explanation for the reports of dangerous AMT + MDMA combos, go ahead.

I'm aware of people taking MDMA while on SSRI's which should be as dangerous if not more so.
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I'm pretty sure SSRIs blunt the effectso of MDMA, not dangerously potentiate them. It's MAOIs that dangerous potentiate serotonin releasers.
 
I'm pretty sure SSRIs blunt the effectso of MDMA, not dangerously potentiate them. It's MAOIs that dangerous potentiate serotonin releasers.
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Surely if you block Serotonin re-uptake then release Serotonin into the synaptic vesicle it would overload the channels with serotonin and cause serotonin syndrome?

Also the only mechanism AMT can be a MAOI by is by competitive metabolisation using MOA-A. AFAIK it doesn't actively inhibit MAO-A. Therefore by weight it can only be as potent an inhibitor as say DMT or Psylocybin.

Unless someone provides a compelling argument I'm going to attempt 35mg of AMT with 70mg of MDAI after 3 hours and possible redoses of MDAI if all goes according to plan.
 
aMT appears to potentiate MDMA somewhat, so if you do decide to try this, keep the doses low, e.g. maybe 30mg aMT + 50mg MDAI, and go from there. I find my responses to aMT vary widely, sometimes its pretty stimulating, other times less so. Doesn't appear to relate to dosage either.

Keep in mind that some people have had overwhelming experiences combining the two, so something to be wary of. However, I'm personally interested in trying this combination sometime, so please let us know how you get on with it.
 
Here is the report:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/nhe8n/amt_mdai_words_simply_cant_do_it_justice/


Saturday I took my usual (functional) dose of 30mg AMT and met up with friends. We drank a few beers and toked up a bit then went back to someone's house. I took a 10mg cap of 4-ho-met to up the visuals a bit. 1 of my friends was on acid the other just drunk/high. They took 150mg caps of MDAI each and I took a 50mg cap. Over the course of 2 hours or so we huffed some N2O, drank and toked more. I also took 2 more 50mg caps of MDAI (I was going slowly to be sure I didn't get Serotonin Syndrome). Here's where it gets good.
About 15 minutes after the last MDAI cap a friend but on the darkpsychedelic visualizer ([1] http://darkpsychedelic.ru/) and while I was watching it a sense of immense euphoria and happiness washed over. It was absolutely incredible, I can't express just how euphoric I felt. For about 8 hours with the occasional redose I was floating in total ecstacy, music was incredible, I was acting really silly curling into random shapes and sticking my head out a window to feel the cold etc. Interestingly N2O wasn't that incredible in this state so I let my friends use the chargers while I rolled around. Each time a new wave of euphoria hit me I would be totally incapacitated, even standing up was too difficult. Eventually I came down but there was no real crash, I just slowly progressed from being high to not being high.
Next day I was anticipating a monstrous hangover/serotonin depletion but as I write this (18 hours later) I still feel pretty damn good. No headache, no depression, no muscle fatigue. In all fairness most of my experience was sitting or lying down because standing was far too difficult.
All in all an incredible experience and a combination I highly recommend.
EDIT: Final Doses:
30mg AMT
250mg MDAI
10mg 4-ho-met
Continuous tokes from a vapouriser.
3 Beers + half a bottle of Jagermeister
Roughly 10-15 N2O chargers.
Bear in mind the majority of the effects were from the MDAI + AMT
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