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amp+Melatonin or 5-htp= bad?

Spleh

Spleh

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Heya, question is the topic. I had a scour around but couldn't find much relating to melatonin or 5-htp in combination with d-amp only mdma.

Could it be potentially dangerous to take something like melatonin or 5-htp(or both) while the drug is still having noticeable effect or while the halflife of the chemical is still effective. I heard melatonin could act as a maoi and amps seem to have maoi like effects on the brain just with release included.
 
No, they're not dangerous. Melatonin acting as a MAOI? Where'd you read that from?

Why did you post this in advanced drug discussions in the first place, anyway?
 
Alright thanks, I wasn't sure where to put it but if this is the wrong forum I guess it will be moved.

Could it be a problem in combination with passion flower extract present in valerian pills (ext equiv flower dry 100mg) From what I read a while back passion flower was a very mild maoi but just making sure.
 
In my opinion Melatonin might as well be considered inactive, or an expensive placebo, or something else along those lines.

Lots and lots of 5-HTP, and lots and lots of amp might be a bad combo, but lots and lots of amp might be bad all by itself.

I wouldn't worry.
 
BilZ0r said:
In my opinion Melatonin might as well be considered inactive, or an expensive placebo, or something else along those lines.

Lots and lots of 5-HTP, and lots and lots of amp might be a bad combo, but lots and lots of amp might be bad all by itself.

I wouldn't worry.
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Ah that's good to know, I was bit skeptical about melatonin and it's possible interactions mainly:)
 
the combination is not dangerous. 5-htp is generally safe to take with anything, as it is not an MAIO or efven an SSRI or tricylcic, but instead a precursor. What your body doesn't use it doesn't use; it's just a more 'advanced' (in terms of chronological order of biosynthesis) precursor of 5HT (and in turn of melatonin) than dietary amino acids. As for melatonin: it's converted from serotonin in the pituitary. Taking it orally for long periods of time may not bode well in general (it may induce down-regulation of melatonin receptors), but it's not a dangerous combination with amphetamine - just not a highly effective onf if you're still on speed and looking to sleep.
From personal experience - I've combined these three many many times in large doses to no detrimental effect.
 
^take that wit a big grain of salt. ona k, you be posting some dubious and anecdotal info there.

looking at the pharmacokinetics, peripheral serotonin consequential to 5HTP admin - 60 % - especially in conjunct w/B6, and with meth is altogether bad news.

5HTP, which oft comes follishly combined by many suppliers with B vits is not safe in many combinations, esp. any w/MAOI properties.
 
Can you elaborate on why it is not safe?
The following I have about L-tryptophan, the 5HTP precursor. Tryptophan Hydroxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme in this pathway, so it may not stand true with 5-htp, but its tone approximates well what I have read about 5-HTP also:

"Some anecdotal reports suggest that serotonin sythesis increases in response to the oral administration of L-tryptophan, most likely because TPH is not fully saturated by normal circulating levels of tryptophan; however, such synthesis is likely to have a minor impact on overall serotonin function.... Rapid intravenous infusion of as much as 7g [in humans] can cause a very mild sedative effect that is usually clinically insignificant, and also can cause small changes in plasma levels of pituitary hormones known to be regulated by serotonin." from Molecular Neuropharmacology by Nestler, Hyman, and Malenka

Hyman currently teaches a class I'm in called Stimulants and Mind-Enhancing Drugs, for which this book is used, and in which we cover amphetamines and all their implications, so I can ask him for more info on 5htp. He used to be head of NIMH and is in general a top neuroscientist, and thus in my opinion a reliable source. this is tangential, however.

Similar things I've read about 5-htp also suggesxt that unless you have a depletion, 5-htp changes induced in the brain will be mild or insignificant.
 
Avoid the passionflower, although not large concentrations, it contains the potent MAOI harmaline, and possibly harmine, I am not totally sure on the latter.
 
You don't want to mix 5-HTP with an MAOI, but seeing as there is no MAOI listed here, you're fine.

Also, ona_K, from my readings, that quote is about tryptophan, not 5-HTP.

Saying 5-HTP induced changes will be mild, is like saying L-DOPA induced changes will be mild. And they are not, even in normal individuals (though granted the effects are much different to when it's given to those with PD)
 
I don't see any cause for concern here, especially if you're talking about d-amphetamine, which probably has very low activity at the serotonin transporter at recreational doses.

I've also heard that 5-HTP has a higher affinity for the serotonin transporter than MDMA, though I have no idea whether this is true for meth or not (too lazy to look it up right now). If it is true, then mixing 5-HTP with meth should also be completely benign. I can attest that I did it a lot in my tweeker days, with the goal of preventing neurotransmitter depletion, and nothing bad ever happened because of it.
 
Can you elaborate on why it is not safe?
The following I have about L-tryptophan, the 5HTP precursor. Tryptophan Hydroxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme in this pathway, so it may not stand true with 5-htp, but its tone approximates well what I have read about 5-HTP also:
Click to expand...

So the rate limiting step is tryptophan to 5HTP; that means that 5HTP is downstream of the rate limiting step and does not get the negative feedback for the enzyme. A large level of 5HTP will inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase, but as the enzyme isn't needed (it's already been hydroxylated) there's a potential for all of the 5HTP to become serotonin.

The comparison BilZ0r made with DOPA is very pertinant. You can eat as much phenylalanine or tyrosine as you want without much danger, as the rate limiting step is tyrosine --> DOPA (dopamine inhibits the activity of tyrosine hydroxylase). However if you eat a lot of DOPA, you're downstream of the rate limiting step and bad things can happen due to an excess of dopamine production (like the end of dose, snakelike writhing movements experienced by Parkinsons patients on too high a dose of DOPA).

Personally I think you have to be just as careful with 5HTP as you would be with DOPA - taking it with drugs influencing serotonogic activity in the brain is an accident waiting to happen
 
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BilZ0r said:
In my opinion Melatonin might as well be considered inactive, or an expensive placebo, or something else along those lines.
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i know this is off topic but i can say that melatonin DEFINATLY works as a sleeping pill.

i suffer from really bad insomnia when i dont smoke pot - sometimes if the pot isnt that strong i still wont sleep.

every time i take melatonin, i sleep within half an hour. everytime i dont take it, i will sit there and be awake, sometimes for hours at a time. i take the melatonin, i sleep. its really easy to notice it works when you have bad sleeping habbits :) the thing is, it will not overpower (meth)amphetamines, or work during the day, but i can assure you that it is far more than a placebo.
 
melatonin is active as a sleep inducer at 3mg sublingual lozenge, for wife at 500mcg, and is golden at 6mg for 3 days for heavy jetlag induced circadian imbalance resetting - if you travel long and lot.

also good as for lucid dream state manipulation. and restoring color dreams, remembered later, to heavy pot smokers.

visual enhancement and relaxation during the ride if on one of the longer -over 14 hour - psychs.
 
^ Um, yeah, strangely enough, that's not really evidence of anything.

If Melatonin works, how come drug companies didn't patent it and sell it for big bucks? Benzos are shit drugs, if they had something better, that would sell it... even generic companies would sell it.

Taken from the latest melatonin metareview "Melatonin treatment significantly reduced sleep onset latency by 4.0 min (95% CI 2.5, 5.4); increased sleep efficiency by 2.2% (95% CI 0.2, 4.2), and increased total sleep duration by 12.8 min (95% CI 2.9, 22.8)"

While these people claim significance, it is a very liberal metareview. And look at those figures... 4 minutes.. 2%.... even if larger, better studies do show significance, if those are the kind of results you get, it might as well be inactive...
 
BilZ0r said:
Where'd you hear that from?
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I actually don't remember…it was either a grad student or a postdoc at the institution I got my B.S. from, or somebody on BL who claimed they were a grad student or postdoc (if you care to search the archives, you might find it)…in any case I was obviously too lazy to check the literature, that's why I said "I heard" rather than anything more definitive. These aren't unpublished results or anything that definitive, just pure hearsay.
 
Not worried about 5-HTP amp combo but amp's + 950mg Sodium Bicarbonate is what ive been doing recently anything else that would inhibit the properties of the amp? Also ive been using a combo of GABA, Inositol, B-3 and benzodiazpienes fairly often...are the supplements indeed affecting the benzo's? I honestly cant tell...sorry to stray from topic ;0
 
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