Am researchng for an essay on porn and am wondering how some stuff on pornohub is even legal????

[atara]

will I get shouted down if I suggest that men are able to be more detatched and cerebral on this issue because they cannot identify with the little girls/mock little girls?

I think the response is to point out that porn depicting "young-looking" boys is not hard to find either, and often pops up unwanted in areas dedicated to other non-pedophilic interests. Including abusive etc.

I think my abstract perspective on pornography, and even this question in particular has to do with its having been a topic of contention on at least three other forums I used to frequent. This is very much not my first rodeo.

Also, you seem to be experiencing technical issues posting, maybe delete some of those duplicates?

 

[MrsGamp]

I think the response is to point out that porn depicting "young-looking" boys is not hard to find either, and often pops up unwanted in areas dedicated to other non-pedophilic interests. Including abusive etc.

I think my abstract perspective on pornography, and even this question in particular has to do with its having been a topic of contention on at least three other forums I used to frequent. This is very much not my first rodeo.

Also, you seem to be experiencing technical issues posting, maybe delete some of those duplicates?

My brother, who's bi, once smashed up a phone someone lent him because he found images of little boys on it. Just smashed it up, never apologised and never explained.

Sorry if I seemed to negelect the question of gay male porn degenerating into paedophilia as well ... I haven't seen that myself, althougn (as above) I know it's a thing from hearsay.

For further reading on "legal" or fake child porn see below:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259709094_Merciless_Doctrines_Child_Pornography_Censorship_and_Late_Capitalism

Just came across it, bit oldn (2011) but still very relevant, I thought.

 

[MrsGamp]

And yeah I'll delete my duplicates. It's not tech issues, it's me being drunk and tired.

I have been quite upset by what I saw. Am looking into the Pornhub saga more closely...

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

I don’t think that could ever happen again in US-made porn. However I think there is still a lot of exploitation of minors in Asian porn that makes its way to Pornhub. Especially in so-called Amateur Porn.

There was another underage American pornstar I forget her name she was like 14 or 15 faked her age, but got caught after doing a few movies, I forget now.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

If you saw some of the stuff I just saw during a 60 second look at the "Teens" category on Pornhub, I am sure you'd agree that this stuff is vile.

I must admit I did not watch any of the videos - just looked at some promo pics and captions. Some of the material appeared to be about girls who looked around 16 being "willingly sexually active" - albeit whilst in their school uniforms, with hair in pig tails etc. In other words, infantilisation was critical.

But even more disturbingly, in the "Exxxxtra Tiny Teen" subsection, there were many images of girls who (whatever their real age) were clearly meant to pass as 12 or even younger. Again, I didn't actually watch any of the clips, but from the promos I gathered there were two main themes:
- little girls being raped or at least unwillingly "initiated" - eg "She is Not Used to Suck a Dick" (sic, see OP), in which no male faces were visible, just massive penises, or -
- little girls cheerfully consenting to sex in "suburban house" settings. In these the men's faces and bodies (clothed) were shown - in order, I felt, to characterise them as "Daddies".

I am not exaggerating.

I get what you are saying about age of consent and yes, tis true that many girls aged 16 - or even younger - are psychologically ready for sex. Some may even be interested in much older men ...

That cuts boths way of course. When I was 36 I was giving private English tuition to a 16 y/o boy who persistently played footsies with me under the table and other flirtatious stuff ... to what extent he meant it, I don't know. It was indeed embarrassing because he looked like he was in his early 20s, and I couldn't help but feel a flicker of response (I certainly blushed!)

But surely, when the age difference is so pronounced, and when the kid so obviously doesn't know what the fuck they're really doing .,.. the general rule for the much older person should be "absolutely not, hands off"?

Even if I'd been 26, not 36, it still would've been totally inappropriate to take advantage of this child. A 16 year old is a child, even if legally capable of consent. It would be different with another 16 year old, or an 18 year old ...

It's a contentious area, of course. I have a feeling that the Pornhub issue aside (and I'm sure everyone who saw what I saw would concur that such "fake" kiddy porn is reprehensible) - that aside, there's a question or principle here that needs formulating, or clarifiying ...

Right now the best I can do is to refer to the popular catchphrase "barely legal". IMO, for a big grown up person to have sex with someone who is "barely legal" may be legal, but it still seems wrong.

I don't watch porn, but don't judge the ones who do, regular legal age porn, not the mimicking of adolescent porn, the pedophile porn should be made illegal and the producers should be sought after by law enforcement and raided and arrested. How can they even show these things? and I have a suspicion some of these girls are underaged,

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Netflix has that french movie “Cuties” out and it’s horrendous. Those are actual children and yet it’s released? I think actually they’ve been indicated by a Texan court over that film for refusing to take the movie down.

The French are sick fucks as are most Europeans, they are as liberal as can be and I heard they even show xrated movies in the afternoon on plain television where young kids could see it

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

yeah, this is the thing we should be worried about. you're spot on here. there's actual child abuse going on around world.
porn industry is degenerate and there will always be fetizes, nothing can stop it.
you can do your own part by not watching it.
it's anyways harmful and it's getting cuck'd,.

Yeah I don't watch porn and think it should be made illegal like it use to be back in the 70's and 80's where the were treated like prostitutes and the FBI would raid the shooting facilities and they'd get arrested.

 

[MrsGamp]

I don't watch porn, but don't judge the ones who do, regular legal age porn, not the mimicking of adolescent porn, the pedophile porn should be made illegal and the producers should be sought after by law enforcement and raided and arrested. How can they even show these things? and I have a suspicion some of these girls are underaged,

There is no doubt that a helluva lot of girls on PornHub are actually underaged, not faked ... Pornhub are in trouble right now because of their lax vetting standards,

If you want to watch porn, I'd give Pornhub the swerve. They are not in "good odour" at all right now. Doubt they'll be banned long term, but their cookies could inadvertantly channel some dodgy shit your way.

see:

1.5 Million Sign Petition To Shut Down Pornhub For Child Pornography

'The world is waking up to the fact that Pornhub is infested with videos of the real rape and sex trafficking of underage victims.'

thefederalist.com

Unilever and Heinz pay for ads on Pornhub, the world’s biggest porn site

The global consumer giants Unilever and Kraft Heinz have come under fire for advertising on the world’s most popular porn website, which is flooded with illegal content.Pornhub is awash with secretly filmed “creepshots” of schoolgirls and clips of men performing sex acts in front of teenagers on bus

www.thetimes.co.uk

Pornhub Responds to Petition That Is Seeking to Shut Company Down Over Illegal Content

Pornhub responded to a Change.org petition that is seeking to shut them down.

www.complex.com

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

There is no doubt that a helluva lot of girls on PornHub are actually underaged, not faked ... Pornhub are in trouble right now because of their lax vetting standards,

If you want to watch porn, I'd give Pornhub the swerve. They are not in "good odour" at all right now. Doubt they'll be banned long term, but their cookies could inadvertantly channel some dodgy shit your way.

see:

1.5 Million Sign Petition To Shut Down Pornhub For Child Pornography

'The world is waking up to the fact that Pornhub is infested with videos of the real rape and sex trafficking of underage victims.'

thefederalist.com

Unilever and Heinz pay for ads on Pornhub, the world’s biggest porn site

The global consumer giants Unilever and Kraft Heinz have come under fire for advertising on the world’s most popular porn website, which is flooded with illegal content.Pornhub is awash with secretly filmed “creepshots” of schoolgirls and clips of men performing sex acts in front of teenagers on bus

www.thetimes.co.uk

Pornhub Responds to Petition That Is Seeking to Shut Company Down Over Illegal Content

Pornhub responded to a Change.org petition that is seeking to shut them down.

www.complex.com

I don't watch porn MrsGamp, its immoral and abuses women and exploits them, and now underage girls, who probably want the easy money or are addicted to drugs.

 

[MrsGamp]

Yeah I don't watch porn and think it should be made illegal like it use to be back in the 70's and 80's where the were treated like prostitutes and the FBI would raid the shooting facilities and they'd get arrested.

Actually mainstream 70s porn I saw (Dad's collection) seemed relatively okay. Women in their twenties, not remotely infantilised (unshaved pubes! can you imagine!) ...and yeah, one leg over here and the other leg over there, full on vagina shots ...undoctored, non-photo shopped vaginas ... not at all remote from what real life adult vaginas are like.

Plus there would be information and interviews ... where the model liked to shop, what sort of music and films she liked, and comments on her idea of what was sexy in men ....

I have no real problems with that.

 

[MrsGamp]

Actually mainstream 70s porn I saw (Dad's collection) seemed relatively okay. Women in their twenties, not remotely infantilised (unshaved pubes! can you imagine!) ...and yeah, one leg over here and the other leg over there, full on vagina shots ...undoctored, non-photo shopped vaginas ... not at all remote from what real life adult vaginas are like.

Plus there would be information and interviews ... where the model liked to shop, what sort of music and films she liked, and comments on her idea of what was sexy in men ....

I have no real problems with that.

PS some of them were quite big girls too ... 70s men perhaps were not indoctrinated into the skinny thing so much ...

 

[JessFR]

Warning: OK this is a pretty serious and in depth topic, so this is gonna be a really long post. If you don't wanna read the whole post, I recommend skipping the first 4 paragraphs.

Before I get into this, I'm gonna be a bit pedantic for a moment (although I do think it's an important distinction).

Teenagers are not children. Men being sexually attracted to teenage women is not unnatural. Acting on it is morally wrong because of the power dynamics relating to age, but the attraction itself isn't wrong and certainly isn't pedophilia.

There is ephebophilia, but that is only a primary attraction to teenagers at the exclusion of older women. That's what makes it unusual. Unlike pedophilia which is abnormal no matter if it's a primary attraction or not.

So, unless you're talking about videos where the person depicted is or appears to be prepubescent, it's not pedophilia. It might well still be morally wrong, even sickeningly so, but it's not pedophilia and I think it's a relevant distinction.

OK with that of the way. I don't like the porn industry at all. IF porn was made exclusively with fully consenting adults, I'd say that's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with that.

But in practice that frequently doesn't seem to be the case. Involving actresses that clearly arent making entirely free choices. And I'd argue just being under the age of 18 in itself usually limits how free your choices are.

Being desperate for money for instance makes it not an entirely free choice. When it's a job like a McDonald's burger flipper then that's an unfree choice that can be classified as just the suckyness of life. But there's a big difference when it's staring in porn.

Sex acts under duress can cause long term emotional harm, especially when it's on video for people to watch for years to come.

So, that's my main problem with pornography. That it frequently seems to involve activities that essentially involve all but victimizing the participants.

There is another problem though. And that's that the content of porn is frequently demeaning to women and encourages misogynistic behaviors. And given how many young men watch porn, I think that's a big problem contributing to misogynistic behaviors in young men.

So, yes, the involvement of or even just depiction of teenagers in porn is problematic, but it's just one aspect of a much larger problem.

Again, if porn were purely made by fully willing participants and wasn't constantly demeaning to women (or maybe at least had more effective age filters) id have no moral objections. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

As for what to do about it? Honestly going after places like pornhub is stupid. Trying to ban it is even worse. What's needed is much better regulation.

Trying to ban it will just drive it underground and make it even seedier. It's just like prostitution. Unfortunate, but banning it is only making things worse.

Not to mention that banning anything from the internet is completely unrealistic. We know there are pedophile networks operating on the dark net. If there's a market it will always be online.

So long as it is possible to run it and regulate it in a way that's not hurting anyone, that's what we should do.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Actually mainstream 70s porn I saw (Dad's collection) seemed relatively okay. Women in their twenties, not remotely infantilised (unshaved pubes! can you imagine!) ...and yeah, one leg over here and the other leg over there, full on vagina shots ...undoctored, non-photo shopped vaginas ... not at all remote from what real life adult vaginas are like.

Plus there would be information and interviews ... where the model liked to shop, what sort of music and films she liked, and comments on her idea of what was sexy in men ....

I have no real problems with that.

PS some of them were quite big girls too ... 70s men perhaps were not indoctrinated into the skinny thing so much ...

I love a hairy pussy, shaved pussies look like prepubescent pussy, which i'm not into.

Warning: OK this is a pretty serious and in depth topic, so this is gonna be a really long post. If you don't wanna read the whole post, I recommend skipping the first 4 paragraphs.

Before I get into this, I'm gonna be a bit pedantic for a moment (although I do think it's an important distinction).

Teenagers are not children. Men being sexually attracted to teenage women is not unnatural. Acting on it is morally wrong because of the power dynamics relating to age, but the attraction itself isn't wrong and certainly isn't pedophilia.

There is ephebophilia, but that is only a primary attraction to teenagers at the exclusion of older women. That's what makes it unusual. Unlike pedophilia which is abnormal no matter if it's a primary attraction or not.

So, unless you're talking about videos where the person depicted is or appears to be prepubescent, it's not pedophilia. It might well still be morally wrong, even sickeningly so, but it's not pedophilia and I think it's a relevant distinction.

OK with that of the way. I don't like the porn industry at all. IF porn was made exclusively with fully consenting adults, I'd say that's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with that.

But in practice that frequently doesn't seem to be the case. Involving actresses that clearly arent making entirely free choices. And I'd argue just being under the age of 18 in itself usually limits how free your choices are.

Being desperate for money for instance makes it not an entirely free choice. When it's a job like a McDonald's burger flipper then that's an unfree choice that can be classified as just the suckyness of life. But there's a big difference when it's starting in porn.

Sex acts under duress can cause long term emotional harm, especially when it's on video for people to watch for years to come.

So, that's my main problem with pornography. That it frequently seems to involve activities that essentially involve all but victimizing the participants.

There is another problem though. And that's that the content of porn is frequently demeaning to women and encourages misogynistic behaviors. And given how many young men watch porn, I think that's a big problem contributing to misogynistic behaviors in young men.

So, yes, the involvement of or even just depiction of teenagers in porn is problematic, but it's just one aspect of a much larger problem.

Again, if porn were purely made by fully willing participants and wasn't constantly demeaning to women (or maybe at least had more effective age filters) id have no moral objections. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

As for what to do about it? Honestly going after places like pornhub is stupid. Trying to ban it is even worse. What's needed is much better regulation.

Trying to ban it will just drive it underground and make it even speedier. It's just like prostitution. Unfortunate, but banning it is only making things worse.

Not to mention that banning anything from the internet is completely unrealistic. We know there are pedophile networks operating on the dark net. If there's a market it will always be online.

So long as it is possible to run it and regulate it in a way that's not hurting anyone, that's what we should do.

It should be outlawed all together, all they are are prostitutes under the guise of adult actresses and actors. prostitution is illegal.

I even heard they have real incest porn mostly Eastern European countries where actual families perform sex for money to taped, mother and daughter sex acts, Father and Daughter and sister and brother, sex acts.

 

[Jabberwocky]

prostitution is illegal.

Maybe where you live, but there are plenty of place where it isn’t. Even in America.

 

[JessFR]

Maybe where you live, but there are plenty of place where it isn’t. Even in America.

Exactly. And even where it's illegal it may only be illegal only for the customers (making it illegal for the prostitutes is immoral and deplorable).

And finally even if it's illegal that doesn't make it immoral.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Maybe where you live, but there are plenty of place where it isn’t. Even in America.

Yeah only one place In America, Nevada, I don't know how they pulled that one off, they even had a show on HBO called the Cathouse which the scumbag pimp is dead now and good riddance on him.

 

[DopeM]

Researching, eh OP?

Sign me up, I've run out of ways to politely tell ppl I'm watching busty grannies giving toothless beejs

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Exactly. And even where it's illegal it may only be illegal only for the customers (making it illegal for the prostitutes is immoral and deplorable).

And finally even if it's illegal that doesn't make it immoral.

Pornography is immoral.

 

[JessFR]

Pornography is immoral.

Why?

If two fully consenting adults film themselves having sex, and want to sell that film, why is that immoral?

 

[DopeM]

Such nuance

Pornography is immoral.