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  • MDMA Moderators: Esperighanto

Am I the only one who has never lost magic?

I don't think loosing the magic has anything to do with not being able to feel the effects. You're just used to it and you're expecting way too much. MDMA won't do all the work for you, I've noticed that when you think too much about the effects like you HAVE to have an amazing time, most of the times you just don't and you spend more time analyzing the effects rather then just enjoying it.

So god damn true and I saw it for myself this past weekend. Going on about 12 rolls spaced out over the past year, the last couple times during my peak all I kept thinking was comparing it to previous peaks and I was just so focusing on figuring out if I was losing the magic or not. My last roll about 3 weeks ago I even sent a text to my friend during my peak, "I def lost the magic." Fast forward to last night and I was at a trance show and the second I walked in and saw the place I told myself I was going to have the best roll of my life. I was using the same stuff from my last 3 rolls and the same amount. Low and behold it was the best fucking roll of my life hands down(and I had rolled the previous night, my back to backs have been better the 2nd day, 3 for 3 now). I sent a text to that same friend more than once "zero magic lost".

Mindset going into the roll is such a huge factor
 
Props to bsiren for calling BS.
Props to OP for admitting BS.

Even at your lowest estimated total of 150 over 8 years - you would have to average about 19 pills per year.
This is about 1.5 per month - every month for all 8 years.

Since you likely went through a period of heavy use in the beginning...
you had quite a bit of spacing in there down the line.

There is research to suggest that some humans are less prone to detectable changes in brain function.
To be more specific - there are two main types.

Former users can be given serotonin agents like fenfluramine, piperazines, MDMA, or even high-dose tryptophan.
Both cortisol and prolactin plasma levels are measured at different intervals.
As with MDMA - the prolactin release is an indication of healthy serotonin function.

Many of these studies have shown long-term (1-2.5 yrs) loss of serotnergic function in abstinent users, as measured by prolactin.
But not all former users exhibit a substantial change.
The heavier users normally do - and most studies would define 150 or more as 'heavy' lifetime exposure.
But there are many studies on more moderate users that suggest small or undetectable change.

In SPECT or PET imaging, radio-active ligands show up as glucose is used in the brain.
The protein that removes serotonin for recycling is visible with different ligands.
And sure enough, many current MDMA users exhibit lower levels of SERT expression.
Former users often recover this SERT protein, but some do not (up to 3yrs).
Again - heavier users typically fall into the group that fails to recover SERT in cortical regions.

In both studies, the particpants that show long-term degredation of serotonin suggest true 'neurotoxicity'.
But even more long-term follow up is needed.
To follow these former users for five years or longer, with abstinence assured, is a very challenging study to perform.
Most critics of MDMA studies fail to appreciate the difficulty of 'proving' that toxicity occurs in humans.

A wealth of animal data shows that repeated doses of MDMA causes a 'lasting reorganization of the ascending axonal structure'.
This is not in debate.

MDMA, esp. with repeated dosing, is VERY likely to cause real damage in humans.
But 'damage' is only defined by substandard prolactin response to future use of serotonin agents...or lower SERT expression in cortical regions.

In practical terms, serotonin may be responsible for a number of higher cognitive functions.
Certain 'visceral' feelings may be lost and fall below detection in cognitive tests.
Most regular users experience some change...although the drug still has some effect.

In research, animals pretreated with MDMA exhibit less 'social' effects and more 'motor' effects from MDMA.
This suggests a greater suppression of dopamine in the nigrostriatal pathway.
And some PET studies of former human users agree - DAT expression in the striatum is lower in this region even after 3 years.

Does this mean the user will describe 'loss of magic'?

Some on BL do.
They feel NO euphoria - up to 4 years abstinence in the posts I have read.
Others describe an altered experience that still contains some euphoria.

You should accept the possibility that you actually have 're-wired' part of your most intricate neurotransmitter system.
Lots of data suggests this is the case, but it cannot be known for certain.
By continuing to re-dose and not properly space your rolls, you are increasing your risk of 'loss of magic'.

I cannot recommend controlling your dose enough.
600mg is a VERY high dose.
I have never seen a human given more than 400mg, even in controversial studies.
And some of these higher doses were associated with changes in cerebrovascular activity that lasted months.

Just be more careful.
If you can't feel a 250mg dose enough - you are ALREADY losing magic.

Do you mind being more specific about some of the studies you are referencing? I'm assuming the sample size was not very narrow and just defined as people who have used ecstasy and not controlling for other significant factors such as peripheral drug use, pre-existing mental conditions, and what they had actually took(big difference between pills and tested pure molly).

I assume you saw this study which controlled for previous drug use and did not find lasting cognitive damage http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/19/ecstasy-harm-brain-new-study
 
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