Alternatives to alcoholics anonymous

[lemongaga]

please post information

 

[n3ophy7e]

There are loads of different ways you can get help for problems relating to alcohol.

If you are specifically looking for a group therapy type of thing, you could contact your local community centre or welfare centre, they are likely to have an alcoholics support program. There are also some different organisations similar to AA that run the same types of programs, they vary from country to country so you would have to google one in your area.

For more specific help, you should speak to your doctor. They can give you a referral to a psychologist who specialises in drug and alcohol addiction, or arrange some other type of appropriate treatment for the problems you are facing.

Please note that I am saying "you" and "your" without actually knowing whether this enquiry directly relates to YOU, so just take that with a grain of salt

If you want any more info or would like to chat one-on-one please feel free to PM me. I am an alcoholic myself so I understand the situation. Take care

 

[lemongaga]

I don't know what I'm asking.

I'm uninterested in everything else I know.

My mindset relates to this: www.orange-papers.org

I cannot mentally handle the corruption in Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Are you mostly interested in disputing the 12 step model as a matter of polemics?

Or mostly interested in finding workable resources for your own problems?

There have been big threads in DiTm and other places with posters disputing 12 step approaches as efficacious or arguing for them as a a viable approach. i'm vary familiar with the orange papers and wouldn't be surprised if it turned out I was the first one to cite them in TDS, Bluelight's recovery oriented forum.

Non AA/NA, non 12-step resources for addiction can be hard to find in many regions. To be honest it is on you to find or create non-12step methods for help where ever you are. Rational Recovery is one off the top of my head. There are many more but most all but 12 step bsed resources are spotty as far as any sort of region by region coverage.

Most treatment modalities are going to involve some corruption if corruption means that many individuals within the modality tend to fall short of ideals. Regardless of the system one utilizes it ends up about an individual's desire for real change more than any cognitive consistency in the philosophy of the system one utilizes.

AA/NA or not AA/NA, if your desire isn't really to make a substantial changes than it is most likely that no substantial changes will happen. There are substantive criticisms of 12 step approaches that I embrace when discussing public policy. I'm not an AA adherent in the least but if alcohol or drug use is causing you personally some misery please don't let the defects of AA be an impediment to getting help. You can navigate a way to get better to spite defects in AA philosophy or practice.

 

[modern buddha]

Creating "steps" to overcome something that is hurting your body is not a very singular-person oriented way of getting over drugs. It is a way that harm reduction creates a cover-all list to go over for the sake of providing the paperwork needed to go back to the government that says "you're on your way".

A single alternative to AA/NA would be to figure things out on your own. This entails being strong enough to tell your body and mind that drugs are no longer faring inside of you and you won't be putting these toxins into your body anymore.

Next, I suggest quitting cold turkey. Get rid of those friends who keep you bound to the chain (only the ones who drink / do drugs ALL the time). You might be lonely and foggy for quite some time, but it's the only thing I can suggest that will keep you away from it instead of you having to battle your demons if these things are around.

 

[Legerity]

I've read some of the orange papers last year and there seems to be some good information there, although I didn't really take the time to check the sources or anything like that.

Rational Recovery or Moderation Management seem to be two of the "bigger" ones although nothing exists that is as massive as AA. Stanton Peele also has some interesting books/articles on addiction that you may find interesting.

I have spoken to one of the directors at Moderation Management who does phone therapy sessions and specializes in moderation and harm reduction. I thought she was great. If you're interested in that sort of thing feel free to send me a PM and I can provide more information.

 

[Mehm]

I'm curious as to what corruption you see in AA?

Maybe I'm just lucky in having such a good experience with the program so far.

 

[B17]

Niacin and hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Mehm]

niacin is great but how do you use hydrogen peroxide for alcoholism?

 

[B17]

niacin is great but how do you use hydrogen peroxide for alcoholism?

Quoted from an alternative source which uses Food Grade 35% Hydrogen Peroxide diluted to whichever dose (never ever drink undiluted 35% H202).

The Solution to Alcoholism
Another disease in which hydrogen peroxide has shown
great promise is alcoholism. Alcoholism is a chronic,
progressive, incurable disease involving the inability to
control alcohol consumption. Alcohol creates a state of
oxygen deficiency in the bodily tissues because it is a toxic
agent that impairs cellular respiration. The impaired cellular
respiration causes a condition called histotoxic hypoxia,
which means the cells and tissues are unable to utilize or
metabolize the oxygen from the bloodstream. Therefore, the
cells and tissues become starved for oxygen. Dr. P.M. Van
Wulfften Palthe reported that inhalation of oxygen
overcomes the effects of alcohol intoxication. Curiously
enough, it was also observed that when alcoholics start
taking hydrogen peroxide orally, which oxygenates the
body, they lose the craving for alcohol.With constant use of
H2O2, the desire for alcohol does not return. This has led
some to conclude that oxygen deficiency is linked in some
way to alcoholism, not just as its effect, but also the reason
why the disease is often chronic and progressive. Hydrogen
peroxide reverses the tissue poisoning which causes the
impairment of cellular respiration in an alcoholic and
restores the respiratory activity of the cells, thereby enabling
them to utilize the blood oxygen again. A flood of oxygen,
therefore (via hydrogen peroxide administration) arrests the
disease, preventing it from progressing further.

This is not condoned by the mainstream medical movement from what I understand but so is a natural and healthy diet. Mind you, smoking was considered "healthy" by doctors until the late 60's.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There is a lot of health care fraud related to claims for hydrogen peroxide and ozone some of which is also very dangerous. Some of the peroxide enthusiasts claim it as a cure for everything when it is not.

Hydrogen peroxide specialists ime are fly by night people treat in exchange for donations claiming the entire system is corrupt and that they are putting themselves on the line for the sake of health and truth. I find them to be dangerous and incompetent.

 

[B17]

There is a lot of health care fraud related to claims for hydrogen peroxide and ozone some of which is also very dangerous. Some of the peroxide enthusiasts claim it as a cure for everything when it is not.

Hydrogen peroxide specialists ime are fly by night people treat in exchange for donations claiming the entire system is corrupt and that they are putting themselves on the line for the sake of health and truth. I find them to be dangerous and incompetent.

Are these the same sources which label high doses of vitamin C "dangerous and irresponsible"?

I have not tried this as I am not an alcoholic, but for many other uses H202 has been amazing. Much better than any mainstream products (mouthwash, disinfectant, antifungal, etc)

Have you ever tried Hydrogen Peroxide?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes I gargle with 3% peroxide on occasion. I've used it as a debriding agent and an antiseptic. The H2O2 fly by night people I've encountered working with friends or friends relatives recommended ozone for cancer, hepatitis, AIDS, imaginary parasites, psoriasis, just about everything that ails man. I'm confidant the majority of oxygen therapy enthusiast are deluded or outright con men.

If there is any proof for peroxide as beneficial for alcoholism I'll happily consider it but highlighting the many things wrong with big pharma and conventional medicine is not proof nor is anecdotal evidence or testimonials. I admit I have a big bias against peroxide/ozone purveyors I've encountered. A big part of that is that there case tends to be made with the tone of a tent revival rather than an analysis of a treatments potential benefits, weaknesses, and risks.

 

[B17]

Yes I gargle with 3% peroxide on occasion. I've used it as a debriding agent and an antiseptic. The H2O2 fly by night people I've encountered working with friends or friends relatives recommended ozone for cancer, hepatitis, AIDS, imaginary parasites, psoriasis, just about everything that ails man. I'm confidant the majority of oxygen therapy enthusiast are deluded or outright con men.

If there is any proof for peroxide as beneficial for alcoholism I'll happily consider it but highlighting the many things wrong with big pharma and conventional medicine is not proof nor is anecdotal evidence or testimonials. I admit I have a big bias against peroxide/ozone purveyors I've encountered. A big part of that is that there case tends to be made with the tone of a tent revival rather than an analysis of a treatments potential benefits, weaknesses, and risks.

Well I am yet to try the ozone drinking water, actually I am soon about to buy Dr Robert Beck protocol instruments. His research claims it can cure from common colds to more serious chronic diseases.

I already take colloidal silver daily, although it did not stop my flu from developing but then I was also meant to be using the blood cleaner along with the magnetic pulser.

I will give it a good, fair go and then report my outcomes.

I know what you mean, the internet is full of good and really bad info, you just need to know how to sift through it.

It's just not many can profit from selling H202 so I dont understand why would they want to peddle it. Drugs, yes, they make many people rich but Hydrogen Peroxide which costs very little...

PS use the Food Grade diluted to 3% peroxide without any stabilizers, as these are toxic internally.

 

[foxyloxy55]

I'm curious as to what corruption you see in AA?

Maybe I'm just lucky in having such a good experience with the program so far.

The main thing that bothers me with AA is the whole "you cant do this on your own, you must surrender to a higher power" mentality. While support (be it from a higher power or not) is very important, I don't think that telling someone with a drug problem that they have no control is very empowering.

I do not have any personal experience with AA or alcoholism, but I do have experience with serious MDMA abuse. For me, I had to find the strength and regain control and resist all the the urges to continue using.

It also bugs me that it's considered by many to be the only acceptable program, and that it's mandated by courts etc. Maybe it's this one-size-fits-all approach that keeps them from having higher success rates?

If AA works for you, that's wonderful. It does work for some people, and I would never dismiss it for those who get something out of it.

 

[B17]

Another really powerful device that treats drug and alcohol addictions is the Bio Tuner which was pioneered by Dr Robert Beck in the west, while Europe and former USSR have been using this technology since 1950s.

I actually bought it along with the blood cleaner, so will use it obviously for other reasons as I am not addicted to drugs or alcohol, mainly the internet

Apparently the bio tuner can stop alcohol addiction within 5 days.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The Beck protocol is more delusion and fraud. Its been claimed as an AIDS cure since the 80's. Its utter Hulda Clark style bullshit. There is not one documented Beck protocol cure for AIDS an area where Beck protocol promoters prayed on hopeless people for a long time.

B17 you seem like an encyclopedia of alternative medicine turned into exploitation and delusion. I consider your points of view to be fallacious and dangerous and encourage other BLer to do some evidence based research before taking any of your very bad advice on health matters.

I'm pro-alternative health care by the way. There is stuff out there though that is complete fantasy and dangerous by itself or because it gets people to ignore treatments that actually do something. Electrical pulses do not cure AIDS or any other pathogen caused disease that I'm aware of. Quack.

 

[B17]

The Beck protocol is more delusion and fraud. Its been claimed as an AIDS cure since the 80's. Its utter Hulda Clark style bullshit. There is not one documented Beck protocol cure for AIDS an area where Beck protocol promoters prayed on hopeless people for a long time.

B17 you seem like an encyclopedia of alternative medicine turned into exploitation and delusion. I consider your points of view to be fallacious and dangerous and encourage other BLer to do some evidence based research before taking any of your very bad advice on health matters.

I'm pro-alternative health care by the way. There is stuff out there though that is complete fantasy and dangerous by itself or because it gets people to ignore treatments that actually do something. Electrical pulses do not cure AIDS or any other pathogen caused disease that I'm aware of. Quack.

Did you try the Beck protocol? Yes or no.

How can it be dangerous?

Seeing as electrotherapy has been used for over a century in Germany and Russia, makes it rather interesting concept to explore.

How many people die from drugs, pills and mainstream medicine daily? Thousands. Those stats never get reported.

I know how you're skeptical, but until you try it, why bother commenting about it?

I've already been using colloidal silver for over 3 months. I have not turned blue/grey, my toe nail infection is completely gone after I was spraying it daily with colloidal silver.

As for no documented cases regarding AIDS cures, you do realise that FDA is ever so vigilant when it comes to stopping people posting such claims?
Hence why so many doctors move overseas and start websites there. It's funny how the FDA claims MSG and aspartame are also completely harmless, when both are strong excitotoxins which cause brain damage, obesity, cancer and other neurological problems. How do you explain that?

Or the fact that GM companies like Monstanto, are free to infect the world with GM plants and animals, polluting the entire planet in the process. What Monsanto claims is that God and nature are idiots and the natural foods we got are wrong and must be edited. FDA never even asks Monstanto to prove GM safety claims, they leave it up to Monsanto to state that everything is safe for us because Monstanto says so. That's exactly like asking a pedophile if children are ever harmed during sexual abuse, the pedo will always lie and say "no, they are fine".

PS are you American? If so, do you believe that 9/11 was created by Afghan terrorists who hate the American way of life and freedom?

 

[addictivepersona]

^ Let's please keep this thread on the subject matter of alternatives to alcoholics anonymous and keep the off-topic banter to PMs. Thanks. :) (I'm sure we all agree that Montasano is evil, but that has nothing to do with AA. )

Also, B17, I'm going to look into the blood cleaning process you described up there. It does not sound a bit safe in my opinion! If people want to clean their blood, do a fast for crying out loud--Your body will clean itself!

 

[B17]

^ Let's please keep this thread on the subject matter of alternatives to alcoholics anonymous and keep the off-topic banter to PMs. Thanks. :) (I'm sure we all agree that Montasano is evil, but that has nothing to do with AA. )

Also, B17, I'm going to look into the blood cleaning process you described up there. It does not sound a bit safe in my opinion! If people want to clean their blood, do a fast for crying out loud--Your body will clean itself!

Sorry I just get caught up in the moment.

Well the blood cleaning uses a 9 volt battery so I cant see anyone harming themselves with such low electrical charge.

I bought the unit along with the bio tuner. It will arrive next week.

I will extensively test it for over a month and then post results.

The bio tuner should help me sleep better, restore memory lapses and clear up my thinking. So I will test that. Im not addicted to anything so cant test it against that.

With the blood cleaner, I will test that too, but id Need to have a flu to really see if it works.

Electrical medicine is not a new thing, and Dr Robert Beck looked pretty good for his age (70s when he made those videos). He died from a fall that resulted in severe trauma. Maybe he got taken out? The guy did not die from any disease.