• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: andyturbo

Alternative to Alcohol...social events

i suppose some would say itsnot really HR if it is dissuccsing new drugs to try. though it kinda is, just looking for safer alternatives to alcohol.

have you tried kratom? if you find the right kind of dose, strain, the way you take it, etc then it might work. it works great for me. cant take it often because tolernace builds fast
 
Kratom is illegal in Australia, so not really a good alternative.
Not to mention that it is physically addictive.
 
I can never understand why kratom was illegal almost immediately in oz when we can still wander into pharmacy n get 400mg codiene ??
 
Kava! It is legal in Australia. Works on GABA. Perfect substitute for alcohol and/or benzodiazepines!

A. <3
 
Cheers - Kava - Interesting...my limited Google searching, appears you can purchase it at Herb shops (Or nutrition shops?)...tablet or liquid?
 
Australia likes to ban all sorts of stuff. Salvia was banned here with little concern for due process.
I have always had a suspicion that Kratom is illegal due to our proximity to asian countries (ie Malaysia) that have outlawed it.
I dont know if this is true or not.
Plus - OTC codeine/paracetamol tablets are a big cash cow for pharma companies and retail chemists, which i presume has something to do with their lack of strict regulation.
 
Cheers - Kava - Interesting...my limited Google searching, appears you can purchase it at Herb shops (Or nutrition shops?)...tablet or liquid?

Extracts in AUS are over priced and ineffective.

You need to find actual kava powder (there is some on the Bay, it's pretty expensive way to get a buzz unless you are sensitive to the effects)
 
Extracts in AUS are over priced and ineffective.

You need to find actual kava powder (there is some on the Bay, it's pretty expensive way to get a buzz unless you are sensitive to the effects)

Cheers - Just tried calling "happy herbs" to see if they sold Kava...no they dont, and didnt know if it was still legal(Or who else might sell it)?

lol - So looks like Kava's not going to be an option for me :)
 
There are thousands of drugs that have similar effects to ethanol. Indeed, chemical space has provided us with a diverse and imponderable array of ethanol-like substances.

In fact, I've experienced some drugs produce an effect more like alcohol than alcohol itself. A lot of barbiturates are like this.

Some of the drugs I've tried and found to be similar in effect to alcohol include ethchlorvynol, 2m2b, 2m2p, methaqualone, glutethimide, and GHB to name but a few.

Moreover, a lot of these drugs are not just similar to alcohol in their effects, but also in their incredibly easy syntheses, too. This is good for us because it means—just like with alcohol—you can simply make them in your bathroom or wherever.

Just do a bit of reading; I guarantee you'll find the perfect drug. And odds are that it wouldn't be terribly difficult to make, so you don't have to buy anything or go through some intermediary to get it.
 
Australia likes to ban all sorts of stuff. Salvia was banned here with little concern for due process.
I have always had a suspicion that Kratom is illegal due to our proximity to asian countries (ie Malaysia) that have outlawed it.
I dont know if this is true or not.
Plus - OTC codeine/paracetamol tablets are a big cash cow for pharma companies and retail chemists, which i presume has something to do with their lack of strict regulation.

Yeah, when they're trying to criminalise native plants, the whole situation has gotten a bit shark-jumpy.
 
Absolutely! Australia jumped the drug-shark many years ago.
The alcohol/tobacco/pharmaceutical industries are incredibly powerful here. Their interests are enshrined in law.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, when they're trying to criminalise native plants, the whole situation has gotten a bit shark-jumpy.

Absolutely! Australia jumped the drug-shark many years ago.
The alcohol/tobacco/pharmaceutical industries are incredibly powerful here. There interests are enshrined in law.

What benefit would a pharmaceutical company get for suppressing the availability of a potentially profitable pharmaceutical substance?

People have downright asinine and ridiculous notions about how the business of pharmaceutics works.

For example, I've heard countless times from countless fools that 'Big Pharma' (what a stupid-sounding epithet, by the way) is entirely or at least partly responsible for the continuation of the prohibition of medicinal cannabis.

But that makes no sense, if we look at things from the perspective of pharmaceutical companies themselves.

If cannabis (and other medicinally effective natural substances, such as kratom or salvia or iboga or coca or khat), for example, were a veritable gift from God—as many herbalists and advocates of alternative medicines and promoters of snake oils and nostrums so zealously and stridently ballyhoo—then pharmaceutical companies have a significant profit motive to commercialise and legitimise their uses, or at least to use their billions of dollars to bribe governments to approve their therapeutic uses.

That way, 'Big Pharma' could then turn around and use their omnipotent powers of legal dexterity to make themselves and only themselves the sole authorised proprietors, marketers, distributors, manufacturers, and otherwise absolute controllers of these natural drugs.

But wouldn't that not be viable—so says the uninformed oaf— since the unauthorized or unlicensed use of natural drugs, like plants, are difficult to control by dint of their being natural, and thus Big Pharma must suppress them and instead support man-made medicaments that cannot be controlled so less easily?

No. But, why?

Because many synthetic pharmaceuticals, which are already marketed, could theoretically be made by anybody with equal or less difficulty than is involved in the growing of plants.

Growing high-grade cannabis is not significantly more or less difficult than making high-quality sodium oxybate, say. It only seems that way because cannabis is unregulated and criminalised, thus making it more facile for the clandestine greenthumb to grow it.

Why? Because nobody's beating down the doors of cannabis growers for copyright infringement or to serve cease and desist letters. Apparently, breaking prohibition laws is less meaningful than breaking laws that result in a corporation's loss of profits.

The reason plants, fungi, and all other crude (or, euphemistically speaking, 'natural') substances are not used or thought useful as pharmaceuticals is because drug companies (and doctors and nurses, and virtually everybody else) finds it exceeding difficult—if not impossible—to dose and administer drug-containing plants rather than the pure, highly refined elixirs deriving from plants.

For example, opium is no longer used in medicine because its constituents, like morphine or other opiates, are more controllable and more predictable and less bulkier than the opium from which they're phytochemical derivatives.

It gives less to chance and allows more to precision and exactitude to use, say, 5 mg pure morphine than it would to use enough opium to be an equivalent of 5 mg pure morphine. Additionally, the quantity of morphine in opium varies from plant to plant, and determining the exact quantity of morphine per some quantity opium is exceptionally more difficult than it would be to just extract/synthesise the morphine itself.

Also, after one or two plants, everything becomes so unnecessarily time consuming and convoluted that it no longer would work. One becomes forced to either use pure morphine or forget about using morphine entirely.

There is no conspiracy against nature. Moreover, there is no logical basis for there to even exist a conspiracy against nature. It just so happens that what we grow in soil is more imperfect than what we create in science. Period.

A thing isn't necessarily true because more people believe in it.
 
Last edited:
What benefit would a pharmaceutical company get for suppressing the availability of a potentially profitable pharmaceutical substance?

People have downright asinine and ridiculous notions about how the business of pharmaceutics works.

For example, I've heard countless times from countless fools that 'Big Pharma' (what a stupid-sounding epithet, by the way) is entirely or at least partly responsible for the continuation of the prohibition of medicinal cannabis.

But that makes no sense, if we look at things from the perspective of pharmaceutical companies themselves.

If cannabis (and other medicinally effective natural substances, such as kratom or salvia or iboga or coca or khat), for example, were a veritable gift from God—as many herbalists and advocates of alternative medicines and promoters of snake oils and nostrums so zealously and stridently ballyhoo—then pharmaceutical companies have a significant profit motive to commercialise and legitimise their uses, or at least to use their billions of dollars to bribe governments to approve their therapeutic uses.

That way, 'Big Pharma' could then turn around and use their omnipotent powers of legal dexterity to make themselves and only themselves the sole authorised proprietors, marketers, distributors, manufacturers, and otherwise absolute controllers of these natural drugs.

But wouldn't that not be viable—so says the uninformed oaf— since the unauthorized or unlicensed use of natural drugs, like plants, are difficult to control by dint of their being natural, and thus Big Pharma must suppress them and instead support man-made medicaments that cannot be controlled so less easily?

No. But, why?

Because many synthetic pharmaceuticals, which are already marketed, could theoretically be made by anybody with equal or less difficulty than is involved in the growing of plants.

Growing high-grade cannabis is not significantly more or less difficult than making high-quality sodium oxybate, say. It only seems that way because cannabis is unregulated and criminalised, thus making it more facile for the clandestine greenthumb to grow it.

Why? Because nobody's beating down the doors of cannabis growers for copyright infringement or to serve cease and desist letters. Apparently, breaking prohibition laws is less meaningful than breaking laws that result in a corporation's loss of profits.

The reason plants, fungi, and all other crude (or, euphemistically speaking, 'natural') substances are not used or thought useful as pharmaceuticals is because drug companies (and doctors and nurses, and virtually everybody else) finds it exceeding difficult—if not impossible—to dose and administer drug-containing plants rather than the pure, highly refined elixirs deriving from plants.

For example, opium is no longer used in medicine because its constituents, like morphine or other opiates, are more controllable and more predictable and less bulkier than the opium from which they're phytochemical derivatives.

It gives less to chance and allows more to precision and exactitude to use, say, 5 mg pure morphine than it would to use enough opium to be an equivalent of 5 mg pure morphine. Additionally, the quantity of morphine in opium varies from plant to plant, and determining the exact quantity of morphine per some quantity opium is exceptionally more difficult than it would be to just extract/synthesise the morphine itself.

Also, after one or two plants, everything becomes so unnecessarily time consuming and convoluted that it no longer would work. One becomes forced to either use pure morphine or forget about using morphine entirely.

There is no conspiracy against nature. Moreover, there is no logical basis for there to even exist a conspiracy against nature. It just so happens that what we grow in soil is more imperfect than what we create in science. Period.

A thing isn't necessarily true because more people believe in it.

You can't patent a plant (or a plant extract) unless you modify it somehow. Even then patents are time limited and need to be obtained for specific purposes and conditions. Pharmaceutical companies don't make much money at all producing things that they don't hold a patent on - the bulk of their revenue comes from payments and subsidies for things they hold exclusive IP rights over.

I mean, I don't agree that pharma companies are behind the war on drugs, but your description of the relationship between pharamceutical companies and unmodified botannicals is inaccurate.
 
I'm not sure i follow what you are saying, NdP.
There have been efforts by the Australian Federal Government in the last few years to ban a number of native Australian species of flora (such as certain species of Arcias - which are on our National Emblem) as they can be used to extract Dimethyltryptamine.

My point about industry and prohibtion was a general one, and a tangent - but i see our political leaders as being rather beholden to big business interests, and of course the self-perpetuating needs of law enforcement.
 
I'm not sure i follow what you are saying, NdP.
There have been efforts by the Australian Federal Government in the last few years to ban a number of native Australian species of flora (such as certain species of Arcias - which are on our National Emblem) as they can be used to extract Dimethyltryptamine.

There's a pub and a casino on every corner, but we're trying to ban a plant that grows along the entire eastern seaboard.

My point about industry and prohibtion was a general one, and a tangent - but i see our political leaders as being rather beholden to big business interests, and of course the self-perpetuating needs of law enforcement.

Decisions about which drugs are legal and which ones are criminalised are definitely largely informed by who those drugs are associated with and who can and cannot benefit from their sale.
 
You can't patent a plant (or a plant extract) unless you modify it somehow. Even then patents are time limited and need to be obtained for specific purposes and conditions. Pharmaceutical companies don't make much money at all producing things that they don't hold a patent on - the bulk of their revenue comes from payments and subsidies for things they hold exclusive IP rights over.

I mean, I don't agree that pharma companies are behind the war on drugs, but your description of the relationship between pharamceutical companies and unmodified botannicals is inaccurate.


Unmodified botanicals? You mean ones where the modifications have been removed? That's a criminal offense—a felony punishable by years of imprisonment and/or excessive fines in some jurisdictions. Incredulous? Then go fuck with Monsanto's patented and legally protected genetically modified plants, and see what tampering with or copying the genetic use restriction technology gets you. I just hope they've got good internet on the inside or that you aren't deprived of too much money from legal expenditures to afford it on the outside, because I'd love to hear you confess how wrong you were


Or do you mean ones where no modifications were implemented at all? Those are all moribund (like a seeming majority of plants) or are currently being modified either in the lab right now or on the whiteboard in preparation for the lab soon.

Or do you possibly mean plants that have only either no modification or no modification resulting from a genetic engineering (via manipulation of their phenotype through some intraspecific extrapolation of some induced quality in a genotype (so to say in my own jargon or argot—wouldn't want to ruin my life by using Agribusinesses' own cant)?

Well, cannabis has been selectively (but not genetically) modified for millennia, for example. Natural selection did not result in such a dramatic change in cannabis strains so fast. Evolution does not work so rapidly. The weed in the 1960s-70s (say Panama Red) was the shit back then. Now, it's just shit.

That kind of autochthonous, wildly growing cannabis (which one may see frequently growing along the moist, verdant medium altitude-level terrain that exists around montane regions of North and Northwest India, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan, and Afghanistan) is all lesser quality than the worst bush weed. The stuff is barely useable.

And that low quality is partly why South Asians historically resorted to using hashish, charas, kief, and seldom smoke the unrefined buds of the cannabis plant. Yeah, they'll get you buzzing. But 3 or 4 gram-sized spliffs is equivalent to a small toke from a spliff of that >20% THC-content cannabis we take for granted nowadays.

Even the common banana is a product of selective modification; saccharine, everyday bananas you get from the produce aisle in a neighborhood grocer are not natural. They are man-made fruits (a banana is actually a berry, but you get the idea) not natural to any place on the planet.

The same goes for essentially every variant or cultivar or variety or strain of essentially all produce commonly sold and purchased on the market—produce is produced by man's greenthumb, not by nature's whim.

We—homo sapiens sapiens—have been making plants better for our applications and palates since the Agricultural Revolution (Neolithic Demographic Transition, circa 10,000 BCE or 12,000 years ago).
 
Top