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"Allah" is the SAME as the Christian "God"

for all accounts the diety IS cited to be the same. the core religous debates are:

1) which book(s) properly reflects deities intent for humanity
2) how to properly worship said deity.

1 is debated majorly between islam, christianity and judaism - in christianity it is debated between versions of the bible (vulgate / king james - addition of jesus christ of latter day saints books and other books)

2 is hotly debated for muslims and christians alike.
 
If any of you are serious about getting to the core truth of the original topic, then i hate to tell you that you are going to HAVE to do some reading and research on this. It CANNOT be debated and solved just through normal conversations here on BL.

So, i am going to post some links to articles for you all to read. Some are pretty long and go into a lot of scripture both in the Quran and the Bible. I have read most of all these sites and then some and there is no way i can just restate it all for you. So i am sorry if you think i am ducking out of the debate, but i am not willing to go any further until you all at least read up on some of this stuff. It would just be a waste of my time, which i have less of these days. So here you go, i have a million more:

http://www.answering-islam.org/God/index.html
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ishmael-baal.htm

There are literally thousands of sites like this, but this one is very good. It really goes in depth to the issue, gets right to the core. If nobody is willing to read and learn then why even have this debate? So hopefully some discussion will generate from these articles. this stuff isnt as simple as 1+1=2 folks. Enjoy :)

I was in the process of making a big huge long post but it was getting to be way too long and i wasnt even close to being done. So i decided to go this route.
 
^
that's a "how to convert" site from islam to christianity pretty much...i don't that would be a good place to look for answers but that's me..
 
^Those links i gave go directly to articles that talk about what we are talking about. It breaks down scripture (both Quran and Bible) and shows how it isnt possible for them to be the same god. These are just some of the many many many links i can give, i almsot dont know where to start.

See, i have read up on this and studied it LONG before this discussion. I had a muslim friend that claimed the same thing. Funny how it is almost always muslims that make this claim, almost like they WANt to believe in the same God, but in fact they dont.

Touching on the points OHM made, the characteristics of Allah and Jehova are so completely different that it couldnt be the same god. the last link i gave talks about the decendants of Ishmael and all that good stuff. This site isnt the final say by any means at all, the 3 links just give a good idea of the depth of this debate. Nobody on this board is qualified ebnough to prove it one way or the other, this takes serious study. I doubt many of you are willing to study up on this. I do though, but of course, this is my faith i am talking about. So i obviously have a lot more paasion to learn about it than most of you.

This is not a new topic to the relgious folks around the world, and believe me, it has been studied and researched, all we need to do is read up on it.
 
Beanergrl: Here is the Genesis account for you:

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers." Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. Th is is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner-those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." God also said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her." Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!" Then God said, "YES, BUT YOUR WIFE SARAH WILL BEAR YOU A SON, AND YOU WILL CALL HIM ISAAC. I WILL ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH HIM AS AN EVERLASTING COVENANT FOR HIS DESCENDANTS AFTER HIM. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. BUT MY COVENANT I WILL ESTABLISH WITH ISAAC, WHOM SARAH WILL BEAR TO YOU BY THIS TIME NEXT YEAR." When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him. Genesis 17:1-22

Seems pretty clear God is saying He will have His covenant with Isaac. now the obvious response is "yeah but muslims say otherwise". Which i why i posted those links, we will argue in circles all day without digging a lot deeper into the issue.

I dont think it is a stretch to say that if God had his covenant with Isaac and not Ishmael that Ishmael and his decendants could have gone astray and worshipped a false god--Allah. See what i am getting at? Islam believes in ONE GOD ONLY. Christinas believe in one God in 3 forms--a Trinity. Muslims dispute the possiblilty of a Trinity emphatically. Add this to how completely opposite the description of god is in Islam and God is in the bible (NT and OT) and you can see they arent the same god. It is possible for one or the other to have branched off and worshiped a false god.

you have to read more about this all though, trust me.
 
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God is only saying that the line of the Messiah will be through Sarah, not that he is going to not be the God of the Arab nation and turn His back on them. By continuing your Bible study you will see that God doesn't turn His back on them. I pointed out those verses to you. The line of the Messiah can only be born through one woman. His convanant (promise) is with Sarah but His love is for all of Abraham's children. Ishemel's children were not given the same way as Isaccs..You just wrote the account of Genesis (which you can spare for me by the way as i don't even have to read it anymore to quote where verses are)where God told Abe that Ishemel would still have His blessing. That is black and white to me. God is still the God of Ishemel.

Abraham fucked up and created a mess so God had to make a new nation for his other descendants. God never says that He wouldnt be their God too and shows us just the opposite. He provided another way just for them by making Ishemel a new nation.

also, only christain churches stemming from the roman catholic church believe in the trinity. there are some that do not.
the trinity concept is also of pagan origins.

edit- your above links are from some radical Muslim site that doesnt want to acknowledge the same God as other Muslims do. they come right out and say that some Muslims are wrong. that is IMO a case of "my God is the only and yours is wrong". that site is no more useful to me then a Morman site would be.
 
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I didnt say God tuned His back on them. Maybe it was the other way around. But again, this cant be argued on the surface, there is a lot more to it and if you REALLY want to know the truth you can research it easy enough.

As far as the Trinity goes, there are few and i mean very few sects of Christianity that does not believe in it. It wouldnt suprise me if you were one of them. It almost seems that you choose to believe everything that isnt mainstream. As you know, i already told you that your interpretations of verses are mind boggling at times, which i why i wouldnt debate the meaning of scritputre with you. We see things completely different, which is fine.

Like i said, read the links if you are willing to actually hear an opinion different of yours. If not, then dont. :)
 
It is a site that answers questions like the ones we are talking about. If you dont want to hear from people who have different views than you and go to GREAT LENGTHS to prove their view then dont read them, i could care less. You might actually learn something--god forbid.

Its not a muslim site, its a christian site. Goes to show how much you looked at it! 8) I am not suprised.
 
opps, sorry. a radical christain site telling muslims they are wrong and don't worship their God. oh, that's even nicer. 8)
 
^You are only proving your own ignorance. First you pass judgement on a site that you didnt even look at enough to see it was a christian site and not a muslim one. Now you wont read it because it is a Christian site.

If you actually read the site you would see it is hardly radical, it is geared for muslim readers. Either way, i dont care what you do, i already told you that. You dont want to read a muslim site or a christian site, maybe you should just make your own site since you know so much. Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but you are pretty pathetic. I am done with you, have a nice day. :)

Ignorance is bliss.
 
SoHiAllTheTime said:
I didnt say God tuned His back on them. Maybe it was the other way around. But again, this cant be argued on the surface, there is a lot more to it and if you REALLY want to know the truth you can research it easy enough.

As far as the Trinity goes, there are few and i mean very few sects of Christianity that does not believe in it. It wouldnt suprise me if you were one of them. It almost seems that you choose to believe everything that isnt mainstream. As you know, i already told you that your interpretations of verses are mind boggling at times, which i why i wouldnt debate the meaning of scritputre with you. We see things completely different, which is fine.
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You said that they didnt have the same Father. That is what you said. I am proving to you that they all have the same Father whether or not the concept of what "god" has became or not to each religion, the foundation is the same. My whole point isn't to say that the ways we see God are the same, only that we came from the same source.
The Muslims were unified from straying from God by Muhammand just as the Jews strayed and Jesus came to bring them back together. Which Jesus came, IMO, to set us free from all the crap of what religion had become with the Jews. They were well on their way to Idol City.

i used to think like you and the reason i left my church, an SDA church, was because of the trinity concept. they believe it, i don't know if i do anymore. I learned how to think outside of the box my church put me in.
so if i died like five years ago then i would of been "saved" according to what i believed then. but now because i understand things differently then that all changes for me? no, i still have the same God, i am just on a different path of knowing Him. i do believe in Jesus though. but what He is to me and what He is to you are two seperate things.

your unwillingness to take the actual translations of the verses from Strongs (and i dont want to go here again, but seriously you do not do this. it is oblivous in most cases) and your unwillingness to look at how some of the books made it into the Bible and where they originated at shows that you are closed minded. If someone shows you something that predated the Bible by 1000's of years then you accuse Satan or demons, or whatever you have said of placing them here to trick people instead of trying to figure out why it really is like it is.
and then your solution is to call everyone ignorant? Sorry, sohi. i have already known God your way. that doesnt make me ignorant. i am well aware of the way you were taught. Been there, done that.
And i am so sick of seeing you call people ignorant. You say it to everyone. i guess it is your snappy comeback. well, guess who is really the ignorant one oh, blind one?
 
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SoHiAllTheTime said:
Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but you are pretty pathetic. I am done with you, have a nice day. :)

Ignorance is bliss.
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and such a nice Christain too. do you pray for forgiveness after passing ye judgment onto others?
 
I didnt say you were ignorant for believing something different than me. I said you were ignorant for the way you treated the links, your ignorance and closemindedness was very clear. Dont you agree?

Look, i dont care if you used to belived like i do now, and now have been enlightened to the truth or whatever (you sound like Sweet E now). That isnt a qualifier for being right!!! How ridiculous.

If you dont believe in Christ for your salvation then i say you were never saved in the first place. Read 1 John, he explains that enduring proves salvation. Or read the parable of the seeds and the dirt. Well, read whatever you want...Nevermind...
 
To summarize:

SoHi: Supports Allah neq God using comparisons of the characterizations of God in the respective Scriptures (both of which post date their respective Gods by, er, infinity)

Zorn, Operates: Allah eq God-The-Father because Christians and Muslims trace their God back to a single, common entity. Both also support the idea that God is eternal and unchanging.

(Poor old Krsna doesn't get much coverage around here but his followers will tell you he's the same God too (and the true identity of the other avatars in the Vedic pantheon).)

SoHi won't engage the one-God group on their own ground (a sound logical argument) and withdraws. The one-God group is disinclined to accept SoHi's offered proof from scripture, perhaps because such proofs have a history of being untrustworthy having been used in the past to justify all sorts of attrocities.

The obvious reconciliation of these two viewpoints is that God has indeed changed over time. The common ancestor YHWH has speciated into God-the-Father, G_d, and Allah. God will continue to evolve to ensure his survival in a changing knowledge environment. In the process, he will further speciate as he is doing now.

Of course, this idea is incompatible with an Eternal and Unchanging God, further demostrating who is the creator and whom is created. This is the true nature of Creation Science.

May your God go with you.
 
^ :)

All i want is for certain people to actually study up on some of this stuff. I already have. I hate wasting my time on people who think they know a lot but really dont.
 
Look, if you read the Quran it is very clear that whoever is speaking claims to be the same entity as spoke in the Torah and New Testament. This "unnamed diety" references directly to the previous two books with wording like: "You will remember that I told the Israelites..." or "I gave a covenant to the children of Israel" , etc. etc., God actually picks up where he left off.

If you take the Quran seriously at all - it IS the same God as the one in the Bible and Yahwe as well. That is made abundantly clear and the entire Quran stands and falls with this assertion of the lineage of prophecy from Abraham through Jesus to Muhammad and the COMBINED message of all three!

Thus it is true that Jews may not believe in the same God as Muslims, and Christians may not believe in the same God as Muslims, but in a way Muslims still believe in the same God as the former two. How can that be? Because they came last - it is all well and good for two much older religions to renounce new stuff like the Quran - but the Quran itself totally backs up and references the previous versions.

To clear up what I am trying to say: If you believe the Quran you have to believe the two prequels, but believing in either of those does NOT mean you have to believe in the sequel =D

--- G.
 
Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and in [the books] given to Moses, Jesus and the prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to God de we submit in Islam. (3:84)
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To each [religious community] we have given a direction which it follows, so compete [all together] in [the performance of] good deeds. Whosesoever you may be, God shall certainly gather you all [for Divine Judgment]. God certainly has power over all things. (2:148 )
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It was we who revealed the Law of Moses, and therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, the Prophets who bowed to God’s will, the Rabbis, and the doctors of law. And they were witnesses thereto…We ordained for them ‘life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.’

...And in their footsteps we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law- a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed therein. If any fail to judge by the light of what God has revealed, they are of those who rebel. To thee we sent the scripture in truth confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety. So judge between them by what God has revealed. And follow not their vain desires, if they diverge from the truth that has come to thee. To each among you we have prescribed a law, an open way. If God had so willed, he would have made you a single people. But his plan is to test you in what he has given you. So strive as in a race of all virtues. The goal of each of you is to God. It is he that will show you the truth in matters that you dispute. (5:44-48 )
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Those are just some passages that highlight the linkage between the faiths paticularly well - and the last one lays out the grand vision of many truths to many people unified under God.

"If God had so willed, he would have made you a single people. But his plan is to test you in what he has given you. So strive as in a race of all virtues. The goal of each of you is to GOD."

One of the best pieces on religious tolerance I have read - strange how those closed minded asshole Mullahs NEVER bring up passages like these when they write their fraudulent Fatwas.

Or how about,

"Let there be no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error. (2:256)"

It seems clear to me that the Quran sets out COMPLETE religious tolerance of all peoples and basically says different faiths are all part of God's great plan! I have not heard of any other religious document making such an assertion...

I just wish some of the "Muslims" in the world actually sat down and read some of these less celebrated passages - especially closed minded Nazis like the Taleban that seem to want to make everyone think the same and completely fail to understand the majesty of the message of human unity contained in the Quran... :(

It doesn't speak to Muslims - it speaks to HUMANITY...

--- G.
 
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Still, you get what I am saying, right? Muslims believe in the same God as Jews and Christians - but not necessarily the other way around (as weird as that seems) - because of chronological order.

The third installment adds some stuff to the mix that others won't accept - but followers of the third installment still accept everything that those before them accepted about the first two.

--- G.
 
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