alcoholism thread [merged]

[myles p]

Then my sponsor told me something. He said "normal people don't wake up the next day thinking, oh fuck, what happened last night? did I do this to this person, did I say this to that person?. You have a disease. Its alcoholism. Its just like diabetes, in that diabetic people can't process sugar like regular people can. Well, we our body's can't process alcohol like normal people's can."

Those words had such an impact on me, because he's right. If I was normal, if I could control my drinking, I wouldn't be going to AA, I wouldn't have a sponsor, I wouldn't have 2 duis, and I wouldn't be looking on the internet for others like me. So, just something to think about.

Too true... I can relate to that statement all too well.

I have been good recently, drank a bit of friday and had 5-6 on saturday. That is fine with me. No physical withdrawl, its only when I push it hard for a few days that I feel anxiety.

The real test is going to be in four days when I'm headed to Mexico to an all inclusive for spring break. All inclusive meaning I can drink 24/7 for a week for free since it is already paid for. Going to be an absolute blast but I really don't want to embarass myself in front of my 18 year old sister and her friend. Everyone will be partying hard, but the last thing I want to do is drink a shitload of tequila and go wondering the streets of Mexico searching for cocaine.

Could easily happen, as when I have had too much I think of two things, women and cocaine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

How long does it usually take to destroy a liver? Everyon in m family seems invincilbe to liver failure.

If one drinks two drinks a day, every day they will have a fatty liver, called steatosis. Whether steatosis is a pathological condition or a pre-pathological situation is a undecided matter in medical literature. It is usually the beginning of alcohol related liver problems. Taurine has animal studies that it can undo alcoholic steatosis. Energy drinks with taurine might turn out to be a valuable harm reduction component regarding alcohol.

Regarding destroyed livers, the quantities and time periods involved are amazingly variable. Many people with huge alcohol habits and poor nutrition still have functioning but compromised livers in old age. Some young people can have serious liver problems after relatively brief periods of alcohol over consumption.

A side thing with taurine. There is a prescription for reducing alcohol cravings called acamprosate (Campral) it is a altered taurine molecule. Taurine has gaba-ergic activity. Perhaps it could be helpful against cravings as well. As far as the energy drinks, many people wouldn't tolerate the caffeine and Redleader pointed out caffeine elimination was important for him to get over alcohol.

 

[RedLeader]

If one drinks two drinks a day, every day they will have a fatty liver, called steatosis. Whether steatosis is a pathological condition or a pre-pathological situation is a undecided matter in medical literature. It is usually the beginning of alcohol related liver problems.

Can the term "fatty liver" be taken at face-value? I notice that if I have drank a lot for successive days, I tend to (only then) get pain in the general stomach area if I consume a lot of food and/or liquid. I will get pain, feel the urge to dry heave and want to curl up, and everything inside just feels pressured. Does the liver actually expant to the point where it and the stomach can do an evil little dance?

As far as the energy drinks, many people wouldn't tolerate the caffeine and Redleader pointed out caffeine elimination was important for him to get over alcohol.

Caffeine elimination was important to me for a few reasons:
1) Drinking caffeine only added to my aniety, both general and toward the idea of quitting. Though I quit amphets and alcohol around the same time, so I had two things working against me, and I don't know exactly how the sources of my anxiety would be explained.
2) I have the "addict mentality," and I even found myself wanting to pound a coffee or a red bull just for whatever rush I could get. And so much about quitting is about learning to overcome the addict mentality in every single way.
3) Caffeine dehydrates the body, and it's important to be very hydrated those first few days.
4) Anything added to my life that would at all contribute to my insomnia I considered bad.

If taurene has benefitial factors for alcoholics, great, but it must be weighed about against what I mentioned above. Maybe drinking those energy alcoholic beverages (which do often contain taurene) is the way to go!

 

[sixpartseven]

Can the term "fatty liver" be taken at face-value? I notice that if I have drank a lot for successive days, I tend to (only then) get pain in the general stomach area if I consume a lot of food and/or liquid. I will get pain, feel the urge to dry heave and want to curl up, and everything inside just feels pressured. Does the liver actually expant to the point where it and the stomach can do an evil little dance?

Your liver doesn have nerves, so whatever pain you feel down ther i not your liver. It could just be bloating from a healthy night of drinking. And no, it doesn't actually expand like that. It can a bit, but not so much that you owuld feel it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Can the term "fatty liver" be taken at face-value? I notice that if I have drank a lot for successive days, I tend to (only then) get pain in the general stomach area if I consume a lot of food and/or liquid. I will get pain, feel the urge to dry heave and want to curl up, and everything inside just feels pressured. Does the liver actually expant to the point where it and the stomach can do an evil little dance?

I think this is likely gastritis. Alcohol dissolves the mucosa that protects the stomach lining resulting in nausea and pain. Gastritis is the first thing I detect going wrong for me with over consumption.

Glutamine, an amino acid and weight lifters dietary aid has a reputation for building the mucosa back up. IME, this only works with a period of abstinence. Naturopaths also say glutamine decreases cravings, it is a precursor to GABA and glutamate.

 

[AgentSquish]

Too true... I can relate to that statement all too well.

I have been good recently, drank a bit of friday and had 5-6 on saturday. That is fine with me. No physical withdrawl, its only when I push it hard for a few days that I feel anxiety.

The real test is going to be in four days when I'm headed to Mexico to an all inclusive for spring break. All inclusive meaning I can drink 24/7 for a week for free since it is already paid for. Going to be an absolute blast but I really don't want to embarass myself in front of my 18 year old sister and her friend. Everyone will be partying hard, but the last thing I want to do is drink a shitload of tequila and go wondering the streets of Mexico searching for cocaine.

Could easily happen, as when I have had too much I think of two things, women and cocaine.

Do you go to AA meetings? If so, hit some up down in Mexico. If that doesn't work, just don't drink a day at a time. Worry about tomorrow when it gets there

feel free to PM me as I have been in your situation before and was able to come out sober

 

[burn out]

I think this is likely gastritis. Alcohol dissolves the mucosa that protects the stomach lining resulting in nausea and pain. Gastritis is the first thing I detect going wrong for me with over consumption.

Glutamine, an amino acid and weight lifters dietary aid has a reputation for building the mucosa back up. IME, this only works with a period of abstinence. Naturopaths also say glutamine decreases cravings, it is a precursor to GABA and glutamate.

can you recommend where to get this and how to use it?

 

[Jabberwocky]

You can get in at most stores with pharmacies and nearly any place that supplements to weight lifters + many places online. Buying the powder form is cheapest. You dissolve the powder in a glass of water or other beverage. You can do around a tablespoon two or three times a day.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Very interesting Enki, I might give that a go as well.
I have been contemplating trying naltrexone again but it didn't help much last time so why do I think it's going to help this time?! Silly...

I'm trying the exercise approach again, once I get the endorphins flowing I'm right to deal with the cravings. I'm nearing the end of Day 1 (again), a few hours to go til bed time.

Then, how to sleep......

 

[burn out]

You can get in at most stores with pharmacies and nearly any place that supplements to weight lifters + many places online. Buying the powder form is cheapest. You dissolve the powder in a glass of water or other beverage. You can do around a tablespoon two or three times a day.

thanks. how long does it take before you start to notice results? i will probably go get this tomorrow.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ For me relief within a day and a half. I'm sure it varies person to person. I have to have breaks from alcohol though to grow back the mucosa, it is theorized that the relief ulcer suffers used to get from cabbage juice before proton pump inhibitors and antibiotics was from the glutamine content of cabbage.

 

[sixpartseven]

It's very hard to not drink when your father doesn't even give a shit about it and just shows up with an 18 pack he randomly decided to buy for you.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Yep that is really hard sps
Next time can you tell him you don't want to/are trying not to drink??

 

[RedLeader]

This is the supplement list that I have been using daily in getting sober:


200mg L-Theanine (<- very good product)
100mg Green Tea Leaf Extract
2000mg Fish Oil Concentrate (omega-3)
500mg Magnesium
100mg 5-HTP
300mg Milk Thistle
1 Multivitamin
Kava Kava (as needed)

L-Theanine is a great OTC product for anxiety and stress relief.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^That is a well thought out regimen. Recovering alcoholics have been shown to often be deficient in magnesium. They don't know if it is a result of the heavy drinking or if there is something metabolic about alcoholics that they need more than other people.

You probably already know that kava kava is thought to cause liver problems in susceptible people under certain circumstances. If you have to do any medications that challenge the liver I'd forgo the kava kava for a while. A lot of people believe only the stems and leaves have liver implications and products that don't contain them are liver safe. Kava is banned in Switzerland, France, Germany and The Netherlands over these concerns.

 

[RedLeader]

^ Ya, I beleive it's also now being regulated in Australia. At least it was pulled from headshops, when I was last there about 6 weeks ago.

But ya, I've read about the potential dangers to the liver, and I only intend to use it for a few weeks. I am using a liquid extract, so I don't know where that would fall concerning the "stems and leaves." Psychologically, I will feel much better about myself if I can get and remain sober using only OTC products. But ya, as for the OTC sleep aids, melatonin does not work for me, and valerian gives me negative side-effects. Kava does work extemely well at helping me wind-down and feel relaxed at night. I know it's still kind of risky, though.

 

[n3ophy7e]

And it also seems to be banned/not available in Australia too, probably for the same reasons. But I'm too busy to check this out for sure at the moment...

 

[RedLeader]

I just did. It's apparently, as of 2007, illegal to import kava into Australia in all instances that do not fall into the "small amounts for personal use" category. Seems kind of fuzzy. But ya, I'm guessing that headshops and pharmacies won't bother importing such small quantities, so it really is a 'do your research, order at your own risk' kind of thing.

 

[burn out]

^ For me relief within a day and a half. I'm sure it varies person to person. I have to have breaks from alcohol though to grow back the mucosa, it is theorized that the relief ulcer suffers used to get from cabbage juice before proton pump inhibitors and antibiotics was from the glutamine content of cabbage.

i haven't drank alcohol in several months but i have stomach pain. would i still benefit from this or is the damage permanent now? i do take proton pump inhibitors but they do not seem to help at all.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If the problem is gastritis it seems glutamine might help. http://www.drlera.com/gastritis.htm but do keep your Doc informed. This paper likes a few other amino acids better than glutamine.

Several amino acids have shown promise for people with gastritis. In a double-blind study, taking 200 mg of cysteine four times daily provided significant benefit for 56 individuals with bleeding gastritis caused by NSAIDs (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, like aspirin) use. Cysteine is a sulfur-containing amino acid that stimulates healing of gastritis. In another trial, preliminary findings showed that 1–4 grams of N-acetyl cysteine given to people with atrophic gastritis for four weeks appeared to increase healing. Glutamine is a main energy source for cells in the stomach and may also increase blood flow to this region. When burn victims were supplemented with the amino acid glutamine, they did not develop stress ulcers even after several operations. It remains unclear to what extent glutamine supplementation might prevent or help existing gastritis. Preliminary evidence suggests that the amino acid arginine may both protect the stomach and increase its blood flow, but research has yet to investigate the effects of arginine in people with gastritis.