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Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 7.0

nuttynutskin said:
I don't understand your holier than thou attitude. Not everyone quits drinking for the same reason. Who's to say that someone who quits because of health reasons is any less of a person than someone who quits because it's affecting their relationship or job?
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Listen dude, I have alcoholic hepatitis. I had to quit for health reasons as well. The difference between you and me is that you want to keep drinking, but know you can't, and I don't want to drink period because I am striving toward sobriety whereas you're just forcing abstinence on yourself. Good luck to you.
 
What does it matter tho? You seem to want to judge people just because they don't fit your definition of why one should quit drinking or how they should go about it.
 
^ Hey listen man, I've been at this for longer than you. I've forced abstinence on myself and I've seen plenty an abstinent drunk who was not really sober and I've seen a lot of people fail (including myself) and it looks to me like you're headed in that direction. Just calling it like I see it. As my dad used to say when I was a kid, "a hard head makes for a soft ass." Again, good luck to you.
 
aihfl said:
I had an "incident" at my AA homegroup yesterday evening. A particularly obnoxious old-timer who's constantly giving unsolicited, condescending and patronizing advice confronted me after the meeting.
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Seems like you have more in common with him than you thought.
 
Listen man, I'm just telling you like it is. You seem to have no plan except to "not drink" and THAT DOESN'T WORK. I'm not saying you have to go to AA, but you've mentioned nothing about a support network or finding productive ways to occupy your time. If AA's not your cup of tea, there's always SMART recovery or hell, just friends and family. You WILL relapse if you just stop drinking without changing anything else and I'm not the only person who's told you that.
 
So I sat next to this poor woman at my weekly agnostic/atheist AA meeting tonight. She said she had about eight years sobriety, even chairing meetings and taking on sponsees, but has been hitting it pretty hard the last month. She said she hadn't been drinking today, but man, did she reek of vodka. Now that I have some time under my belt I guess I am more attuned to those smells than I was when I was drinking. I'm mortified to think that's what I must have smelled like for years.

Just a funny side note, I rode my bike down there and someone, in all seriousness, asked me if I had gotten a DUI. Told 'em just trying to be healthy. And I only live 2.5 miles away so it takes just about as much time to ride my bike as it takes to drive it.
 
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nuttynutskin said:
Bring on the haters! Y'all are just giving me more fuel to succeed.
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Yep, I said that too when I left my first (out of six) medical detoxes =D

I'm done engaging you. You're just going to have to figure things out the hard way like so many of on here did.
 
Word Captain!! Strong personalities clashing is gonna happen on an open forum. You gonna be fine nuttynutskin and cant help everybody aihfl. Ive followed yalls whole convo and its prob best not to communicate with eachother.. Yeah, now that ive been sober awhile i can smell booze a mile away. I was leaning over my loft talking to the othe tenant in here and he opened a bittle if wine and i could smell it from up here. They were all like come hang out with us. Im like nah im good. It doesnt bother me now. It used to when i obsessed over alcohol but im thru that now. Im not scared of al ohol i have a very healthy respect for it. Theres nothing wrong with alcohol, thetes something wrong with me. I have an allergy that will never go away. As long as i know where i stand im good. Im catching a ride to a meeting tonight. I missed my 9 month chip plus i could use some recovery. Things are challenging in my life so going and hearing some shares and hearing How it Works will be helpful. I made a gratitude list this morning cause it was a rough morning and i needed to use a tool. Im very lucky and have a lot to be grateful for and i prayed. Ever since i moved that stuff has not been utilized by me. So much in my life im powerless over. I def need to work the steps again. I have baggage thats acumulated that needs to be dealt with. I know im capabale of drinking any day so thats how i stay sober. Right now im just dry. But i do believe people can do it on their own. Its only the oldtimers who tell me ill get drunk if i leave and thats only happened twice in 10 yrs. Anyway, today is a goid day. Were not drinking ir using. Kudos to us!!
 
Looking at this current discussion is a perfect example of why I chose to not stick to AA. I really wanted to when I was fresh out of rehab, I liked the idea of the camaraderie and having a place to go where everybody knows your name (that wasn't an actual bar). But it was just like this thread, all this infighting about the "right" and "wrong" way to be sober. If I'm happy and healthy and not drinking, I'm sober, with or without steps or tokens or someone's approval and permission to use the word sober. I've been sober for over 2 years without the help of AA.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it and I'm not going to knock it if it works for the people it works for, but when part of a program is dedicated to telling you that you'll literally die without them, it can be unappealing to some.
 
aihfl said:
You seem to have no plan except to "not drink" and THAT DOESN'T WORK. You WILL relapse if you just stop drinking without changing anything else and I'm not the only person who's told you that.
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You can only really know what works or doesn't for YOU, and what will cause YOU to relapse. For some people 12 step groups can actually cause them to relapse. Everyone has their own ways, sweeping generalizations do no one any good.
 
I agree with that. Generalizations do nothing but cause trouble. I think change is essential to recovery. AA or nothing, you have to be willing to change. And for those of us who spent 25+ years drinking heavily, my mind was so messed up. It was the only thing i knew, drinking. They say in AA progress not perfection. I had to slowly make progress in changin my attitude and outlook. When i first got sober out of rehab 10 yrs ago i hung on to AA tightly and had a great spinser and change started to happen. Everytime i resorted back to my old thinking i would relapse. This AA debate has been going on before any of us were born and will continue. I go occasionally now but mostly do it on my own. Both ways are fine. Its weird cause if someone new shows up at meeting theyre easy to talk to but out here you dont know anyones opinions about AA or whatever. AA saved my life and when i get my car back ill go. Ive never really given back what was given to me. I wanna help other alcoholics with sharibg my experience. Thats all AA is really after you work steps. This is just me personally. I think if someone can stay sober 2 years with no AA thats great. I do ok by myself but i get stagnant and that change i talked about stops and i start thinking about shit i shouldnt be thinking about. I got my own patters and for me it seems like when i dont go i feel sketchy and when i go on regular basis im more together. Again, just me. You know, AA isnt evangical. They dont go out and find drunjs like the early days. If someone new comes in and asks for help, they help. They stay out of contrversy so it seems like a cult simetimes but i love AA and i also trust myself to get thru times im not goibg like now. Its all good. Any story that somebody put the bottle down is a success, program or not.
 
Mmp85 said:
Looking at this current discussion is a perfect example of why I chose to not stick to AA. I really wanted to when I was fresh out of rehab, I liked the idea of the camaraderie and having a place to go where everybody knows your name (that wasn't an actual bar). But it was just like this thread, all this infighting about the "right" and "wrong" way to be sober. If I'm happy and healthy and not drinking, I'm sober, with or without steps or tokens or someone's approval and permission to use the word sober. I've been sober for over 2 years without the help of AA.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it and I'm not going to knock it if it works for the people it works for, but when part of a program is dedicated to telling you that you'll literally die without them, it can be unappealing to some.
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Very succinctly put and basically what I've thought all along. I also agree that if it works for someone then more power to them (even tho I think there are better programs), but to me the way the whole program is set up is depressing and promotes helplessness. Also, imo some of the philosophy actually contradicts itself like telling people they're powerless over alcohol because unless it's court ordered no one is forcing anyone to go to AA, so essentially they're still going there on their own accord and trying to get better which would indicate that it's still by their own choice and willpower albeit in a roundabout way. Also the fact that a lot of what I've read on here regarding AA is about hostility and negativity within members of the program is enough to turn me off. That's the last thing I would need trying to change for the better in a fragile mind state.

Either way, 12 days sober now here. I know I'm doing better physically but the mental game is definitely going to be a challenge. Was craving kind of bad yesterday but not as bad today. Just trying to take it one day at a time.
 
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RDP89 said:
For some people 12 step groups can actually cause them to relapse. Everyone has their own ways, sweeping generalizations do no one any good.
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Yeah, for me being around a bunch of people talking about drinking I think would make me want to drink more honestly.
 
I hear ya man but keep in mind, they dont talk about drinking all the time. Mostly life. Chairperson picks a topic and people share on it. People may talk about their drinking a little but not much. Just wanted to add that. But i hear ya. 12 days is awesome man. Congrats
 
Wow there's a lot of anger in this thread. Can't we all just get along?..... J/k
I was a functioning alcoholic for around 10 years, roughly a liter/day. I drank mainly at home, and my wife was my drinking buddy. It was pretty great except for the daily hangovers and the constant fear of getting a DUI on my way to work at 5am. Luckily I never got into any trouble. I always wanted to stop, but i found out a couple of years ago that I have a 'High-Functioning Autism Spectrum Disorder' (formerly known as Asperger's). I was drinking to quiet the voices in my head............
My family doc did not know about any of this, but i recently had a back injury and he put me on Baclofen, a muscle relaxer, 10mg 3x daily, with Norco(hydrocodone & acetamenaphine).
30 days later I had COMPLETELY lost my taste for alcohol. Now even one drink gives me a headache. No withdrawls and I don't miss it much. I found out later that Baclofen is being used in trials to produce exactly the effect it had on me.
Long story short I had back surgery and now I'm in withdrawls from oxycodone but still no cravings for booze. I have been taking Lorazepam 2mg 3x/day for my Autism and I feel great.
People try to congratulate me on my sobriety(one year), but I didn't earn it. Maybe someone else out there can do it with only the Baclofen and "not earn it" too.
 
Squeaky said:
I have been taking Lorazepam 2mg 3x/day for my Autism and I feel great. People try to congratulate me on my sobriety(one year), but I didn't earn it. Maybe someone else out there can do it with only the Baclofen and "not earn it" too.
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Hey Squeaky, actually you did earn it. I'm on baclofen too. I convinced my psych doctor to prescribe it for me after reading the book, "End of My Addiction" by Olivier Ameisen, MD. Dr. Ameisen was a brilliant French-American cardiologist who in addition to a private NYC practice was also an attending physician at NY Presbyterian Hospital and served on the Cornell University Medical School faculty. Alcoholism destroyed his career. Long story short, he experimented on himself with baclofen so we have him to thank for this medication being used in addiction treatment today. I presented my psych doctor with his case report, as well as case reports of a Michigan psychiatrist who had success treating his patients with baclofen and the results of an Italian study on baclofen. As Dr. Ameisen said, baclofen did not "cure" his alcoholism, it just gave him enough distance from alcohol so he was able to apply the concepts he learned in twelve step meetings and psychotherapy. So don't sell yourself short. You did it. The drug was just a means to an end.

I'm also on Ativan, but I only take it PRN for panic attacks. Had to take one yesterday when I walked outside at 6:45am to go grocery shopping and found my car had been towed for parking too close to a corner. This is the kind of thing that would have sent me into a tailspin the past, but with each passing day of sobriety, dealing with life's bullshit becomes easier. I used to take it for sleep as well, but the psych doctor gave me a combination of Remeron and doxepin for that instead which is working pretty well.

Anyway, I am going to congratulate you on your year, because I know plenty of people who take insane amounts of baclofen in the misguided belief that it is a "cure" for alcoholism and it isn't. It's a tool not a cure. In the end, you did it.
 
Congrats squeaky!!!! A year is a year. You should be comended. I dont care what meds people are on. If they help, they help. Ive never heard of bacfloin. Seems like a great tool to putvthat distance between you and a drink. Now that im sober im on 13 different meds a day. Some are physical and some are mental. I was out there drinking all those years with bipolar I. I take kolonopin for panic attacks. I had them all the time on valium and we switched and not one since. I get those nasty panic attacks to where i can be very self destructive. As we stay away from alcohol and for me, try to live life thru spiritual principals of AA, our lives return and can be amazing. Anyway, good input aihfl and conrats squeaky. Keep at it!!
 
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