Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 7.0

[Jenny425]

It's hurting now. Day 1 of tapering off. Trying to drink fluid but not holding anything down. The Dr here in England (sh-tty medical professionals here, but it's all free.) She told me to start tapering off today, from my vodka (the 1-2 big bottles I consume per day) and I'm in the worst way, and she'll see me on Thursday).... Glad I just found this site. Feeling unwell, and very sad. Alcoholism is the loneliest thing right? I was a 'hidden at-home drinker'.... lost most of my friends for my flakiness, I guess.... I'm great at isolating so I can stay home with my Absolute. :,(

 

[Jenny425]

I actually went to the Dr first thing this morning, with the shakes, even the reception asked if I was ok. And also advised not quitting cold turkey. Whacky, right? And the Dr said to start trying to ween, drink plenty of water, and she'd see me on Thursday and assess if I need meds and a proper detox. Boy am I sick....

 

[Jabberwocky]

The doctor was right in advising you to not quit cold turkey, but what they really should have done was provide you with a proper taper medicine like diazepam. Can you find another doctor or demand another appointment to discuss the Ashton Manual and a PROPER medical taper? Tapering alcohol is often an unrealistic request for the patient, although stopping cold turkey is an ever worse idea.

Shoot Moreaux a PM. She is kinda our resident booze-meister.

 

[Moreaux]

Hey Jenny425 -

I quit when I was 37 - I understand how hard it is and how it takes a toll on your appearance. Fortunately, your looks will return once you get some time in recovery.

An alcohol taper is pretty difficult to do, would your doctor be willing to give you Librium or another benzodiazapine for short term use? If not, is your partner sober and can they administer the taper?

I will scout around for a taper schedule and post back soon. Feel free to hbe blue up with questions/comments/ or frustrations - I was a horrible drunk for 17 years and understand how difficult it is to quit.

 

[closeau]

Hi Jenny425. Sounds like you're having a round time. I agree with Moreaux, Librium would help you tremendously I, too, was a terrible drunk for 17 yrs and I survived I wish I could give you a taper schedule but I never tapered. Always cold turkey. Maybe not safe but I couldn't stop once I started so I'd always break the taper. If you ever did it cold turkey get to an ER and they will get you thru the worst of it. I can relate to the sadness and desperation you feel. I was there. Just the fact you wanna sto is a positive thing, ya know? You will get things back in recovery and your life will be restored. Believe that. I will pray for you and I wish you the best and keep checking in here. We're all here to help. Take care

 

[Jenny425]

Thanks a lot for your replies. It makes me feel less alone in this. I have an appointment on Thursday, and I'm tapering, and really struggling in the mean time. I will need to demand some meds then. Anything over-the-counter that might help slightly? I can't believe I was sent away in the state I walked in, and just got told to continue drinking, and taper, in the meantime. The shakes are my least favourite part, and I'm freezing for some reason, can't shake a chill all day, but sweating. Holed up in bed all day, or pacing, with the toilet being my best friend, not much vomiting still, that's changed to dry heaves. Guess my body's just out of whack.. So far today I've had a little over 350ml(12ounces/.35 litres)... but it's only 4:50pm here in England and my body is really hating me for that reduction. And Docs aren't always easy to give meds.
im just having a really hard time with all this. Thanks for listening. Xx

Thank you. No, the Doc was rushed for time since I was a walk-in. She said she'll assess me on Thursday, and decide if she'll want to refer me to the hospital for a detox, or plan and see me regularly to taper. By law here in England, if you're given Libruim, they can't let you go home with it, unless you have a nurse there the whole time. So, the other possible option, if she'd refer it, is to take something in the hospital. But I'd have to remain there while I was taking it for however many days. Sorry, to offend any Brits, but I'm American, and private healthcare there was top notch. This public healthcare here is in the stone ages. You have crap facilities, and no choices in your own care... And they're so reluctant on medicine.

PS, thanks for that name x

PS: I've been drinking about that many years. Such a shameful lonely thing... Thanks again for the msg. I'm rough today.

Thanks for your kind messages. Yes, it's been about 17 years too, huge quantities. Unbelievable the Doc sent me away in the state I was this morning, said she was going to 'properly assess me on Thursday and decide where we go from there (a hospital detox where'd I'd be allowed to take Librium). She told me to keep drinking and taper. I'd happy to go cold turkey if I was allowed any meds. This is hell, just prolonging my pain. So much for respecting AA and those groups' values.....

Yes, prolonged pain by an idiot Doc.... I should've walked straight to the emergency room. They have to take you and can stay there for days, while taking Librum. And hospitals are crappy, but that would be free to stay there. This is just unbearable. I do have propranolol my old Dr gave me for emergencies, (panic attacks), but I never take them, not sure they'd make me worse, cuz I think it's a beta blocker? I also have just one Xanax left from ages ago, it's only .25mg, or .05mg. I was thinking of saving that for bed time tonight cuz I know it'll get worse then. Thanks again.

Thanks again, you message brought me tears, it was so kind. I'm thinking I'll get to the ER late tonight, or tomorrow, am. This is just hell. Maybe I'm tapering too much? So far (it's 5pm here) and I've had half the amount of vodka I normally would have, thoughts? Thanks again x

 

[Jabberwocky]

Going to the ER is a good idea! Take care of yourself, and please be safe

 

[Moreaux]

Thanks a lot for your replies. It makes me feel less alone in this. I have an appointment on Thursday, and I'm tapering, and really struggling in the mean time. I will need to demand some meds then. Anything over-the-counter that might help slightly? I can't believe I was sent away in the state I walked in, and just got told to continue drinking, and taper, in the meantime. The shakes are my least favourite part, and I'm freezing for some reason, can't shake a chill all day, but sweating. Holed up in bed all day, or pacing, with the toilet being my best friend, not much vomiting still, that's changed to dry heaves. Guess my body's just out of whack.. So far today I've had a little over 350ml(12ounces/.35 litres)... but it's only 4:50pm here in England and my body is really hating me for that reduction. And Docs aren't always easy to give meds.
im just having a really hard time with all this. Thanks for listening. Xx

Thank you. No, the Doc was rushed for time since I was a walk-in. She said she'll assess me on Thursday, and decide if she'll want to refer me to the hospital for a detox, or plan and see me regularly to taper. By law here in England, if you're given Libruim, they can't let you go home with it, unless you have a nurse there the whole time. So, the other possible option, if she'd refer it, is to take something in the hospital. But I'd have to remain there while I was taking it for however many days. Sorry, to offend any Brits, but I'm American, and private healthcare there was top notch. This public healthcare here is in the stone ages. You have crap facilities, and no choices in your own care... And they're so reluctant on medicine.

PS, thanks for that name x

PS: I've been drinking about that many years. Such a shameful lonely thing... Thanks again for the msg. I'm rough today.

Thanks for your kind messages. Yes, it's been about 17 years too, huge quantities. Unbelievable the Doc sent me away in the state I was this morning, said she was going to 'properly assess me on Thursday and decide where we go from there (a hospital detox where'd I'd be allowed to take Librium). She told me to keep drinking and taper. I'd happy to go cold turkey if I was allowed any meds. This is hell, just prolonging my pain. So much for respecting AA and those groups' values.....

Yes, prolonged pain by an idiot Doc.... I should've walked straight to the emergency room. They have to take you and can stay there for days, while taking Librum. And hospitals are crappy, but that would be free to stay there. This is just unbearable. I do have propranolol my old Dr gave me for emergencies, (panic attacks), but I never take them, not sure they'd make me worse, cuz I think it's a beta blocker? I also have just one Xanax left from ages ago, it's only .25mg, or .05mg. I was thinking of saving that for bed time tonight cuz I know it'll get worse then. Thanks again.

Thanks again, you message brought me tears, it was so kind. I'm thinking I'll get to the ER late tonight, or tomorrow, am. This is just hell. Maybe I'm tapering too much? So far (it's 5pm here) and I've had half the amount of vodka I normally would have, thoughts? Thanks again x

I have heard horror stories about socialized medicine - I pray that the US doesn't go that route, some people are pushing for it :/

The ER is always and option. If you haven't taken benzos lately and the Xanax is .5, I would break it in half and take a half before bed time. Magnesium suppliments really helped me with heart palpitations and the shakes - you may want to get some ( make sure it's a bioavailable form such as citrate, oxide, or taurate - oxide and citrate will cause wicked diarreah during withdrawals). Get a good vitamin b complex (Garden Of Life is great). Both those suppliments should help. When you see your doctor talk to them about Indural (propranolol) - it's a beta blocker that will keep your blood pressure lower and help with heart palpitations, it also stops the adrenaline response from anxiety. While you're speaking with your doctor, ask for a prescription of Retin-A .5%. It's a topical cream that helps to rejuvenate skin - that really helped improve my appearance from drinking - it got rid of laugh lines, crows feet, and forehead lines. I look like I'm in my 20's again.

Here is some further info on an alcohol taper:

http://www.hamsnetwork.org/taper/

I will try to find more resources tonight.

 

[Jenny425]

Thanks. Xx

Yes, I've lived half my life with both those medical options, and the NHS here is the worst, by far. Yes, the best, and only, part is that it's all free. But hospitals are run like cheap sketchy clinics, and you don't choose where you go. My General Practioner is a strange pierced quack, that misdiagnosed me on two occasions for small surgeries, he's rude, but I cannot change main doctors (trust me, I've tried!), unless I move!, because your GP is determined by your zip code. And the staff know you're stuck with them so 'customer service' is laughable. Dealing with NHS makes a rude DMV like a day in the park.
Thanks for that site and your website. That's the actual site I found and am tapering, now, at least until I get to that doctor or ER if bad. I'm tapering based on my amount of drinks, which with my Absolut bottles, equated to at least 25/27 per day. And I'm a small framed female. But the site said if I'm in severe pain, sickness, I could be tapering too quickly. Tried to cut in half on first day. Utter HELL. Literally felt like death. SO I've just had 2 beers (I hate beer, but it suggested switching and treating it like medicine, less each day). And the tremors have subsided a bit, and I kept my first food down in 24 hours. Knock wood! I really wanted to quit a more professional way, with meds, I'm desperate to recover, but I guess this will have to last me until I see the Doc. And I'll definitely try to get a Retin-A script! Thanks for the messages. I'm humbled by the kind replies and helpful info. Xx

 

[Jabberwocky]

Beer is probably better for you right now than vodka, but as you know the priority is getting you the right medicine. Beer (again you already know this) isn't the right medicine, though it is better than something with a high proof.

Keep up the good work! This must be very difficult for you, but you'll get there, just have to take care and advocate for yourself and your needs during your detox.

 

[Jenny425]

You're right, I will do that, and thank you. I was feeling sooo sh-tty, that I let her decide for Thursday, as she was rushed. I should've spoken up, and insisted at least on a bit of treatment/medication. Thanks for the kind words. A bit of time has passed, and I'm back with the shakes and cold sweats. Not looking forward to a rough night to bed! I'll try to get through it, and if bad, go the ER route. I still have beer in fridge in case emergency soon, but by some miracle a feel even slightly better tomorrow, I'll continue tapering until appt. But I'm feeling angry, that I can't do this with meds, professionally, Now, not Thursday afternoon. Why suffer this much? I even asked for Librium, and she said we'd discuss that option Thursday. Oh well... It's hell. Why don't we remember this pain when we want to relapse. F-ck! Thanks you guys, so so much, for your kindness and helpful advice. Xx

Correct, I've done the drugs and alcohol. Booze was by far the hardest. On Day 1 of tapering off, and in pure hell. Was up to 1-2 big bottles of Absolut per day, and after losing my man, my home and my job, due to alcohol, I am finally desperately planning to stop. I'm having a severely rough time and (long story) Dr couldn't book me in til Thursday afternoon so she wouldn't/couldn't give me any meds, and told me to ween it, in the mean time. Well, let me tell, it's hell!! I'm struggling to even write this, but finding hope reading others posts. If this works, I'm done. Alcohol is my poison.

Found my 1 single .5 Xanax that I had. I only took the half, and just sweating it out now, hoping it helps.

 

[closeau]

I got a solution to this. Stop drinking completley. Get to the point where you can drive safely and go to the ER. There're they will give you Librium or Ativan for shakes and you can stay there while you you go thru the dangerous part of withdrawal. They will take care of you. Be nice and explain EXACTLY how you drink. Then when the danger is over they will write you a script for probably Librium. Go home and take your Librium. Find meetings around you and go. Go to several. Don't judge off one meeting. You know how I know this works? Cause I did it. I don't know if things are different in England but I can't see them being that different. Fuck all that taper shit. Once alcohol is ingested by an alcocoholic it sets off an allergy and we cannot stop. Getting off the bottle is like ripping off a bandaid. Just do it under medical supervision. I drove myself to ER, parked, staggered in and spent the night there. Meds were given to me iv and they can also help point you in the right direction as far as what to do when you leave. If you drink again it starts all over again. I think recovery starts here and it has to start with meetings. Just being around others who say, yeah, I tried to taper too or whatever. People you can relate too. That's my reccomondation. Do not detox by yourself!!!!!!! I've done it and it's hell and I shoulda died. I pray for you!!

 

[Jenny425]

Thanks for reply. I'm angry that I didn't insist when I was there. And she seemed ditsy. I'm hoping my tiny bit of Xanax will get me through the night. I called the Dr and said I desperately needed a sooner appt on the vm. If she refuses I'll go the ER early in the am. I'd have to stay there though, they can't give Libruim to take home, by law, you remain there while on it. You can sleep there, or if not bad, taking it stay until the eve and go home. But it's bad. The other is taking home But only if someone administers and constantly check your vitals. I'd only have the ex, but he works all day. I wonder if US allows you to take meds home... Because here it's all free. Maybe they want you and out, so more can come. I know I'm repeating myself....This tapering this is the worst hell I've Ever experienced. I feel like I'm dying! Thank you for your words, and the prayers. I need them! Xx

 

[Erikmen]

I got a solution to this. Stop drinking completley. Get to the point where you can drive safely and go to the ER. There're they will give you Librium or Ativan for shakes and you can stay there while you you go thru the dangerous part of withdrawal. They will take care of you. Be nice and explain EXACTLY how you drink. Then when the danger is over they will write you a script for probably Librium. Go home and take your Librium. Find meetings around you and go. Go to several. Don't judge off one meeting. You know how I know this works? Cause I did it. I don't know if things are different in England but I can't see them being that different. Fuck all that taper shit. Once alcohol is ingested by an alcocoholic it sets off an allergy and we cannot stop. Getting off the bottle is like ripping off a bandaid. Just do it under medical supervision. I drove myself to ER, parked, staggered in and spent the night there. Meds were given to me iv and they can also help point you in the right direction as far as what to do when you leave. If you drink again it starts all over again. I think recovery starts here and it has to start with meetings. Just being around others who say, yeah, I tried to taper too or whatever. People you can relate too. That's my recomondation. Do not detox by yourself!!!!!!! I've done it and it's hell and I shoulda died. I pray for you!!

Good post Closeau.
It think there are good suggestions and it can work.
I had also counted with hospital support when I quit. I had planned carefully to reduce my opiates income (methadone) and when things got out of hand, real bad, they were really the ones who helped me out first. From there you can also try different things too. I went back to psychotherapy but like you suggested I did go to meetings regularly and was here quite often. It all helps us when we set our goals and feel ready to commit.

@Jenny425, Be kind to yourself, accept who are you or who you are turning to. There will be good and bad moments, probably more intensively than life in general. And you'll probably think you can't do it but you can. We all can adapt ourselves to all sort of privations, and learn to deal with cravings. If you fall again, start over and look forward. You'll probably find that strength in you nobody thought you really had it and there more and more. Just keep moving, get busy and trust that people can help each other because some us really do. Wish you luck, perseverance and success!

 

[Jenny425]

My update:
Went to the ER CRAZY-EARLY this morning, after honestly the WORST night of my life, no exaggeration. Utter hell. I was crying, it was that bad, and I'm tough. I've never been through anything like it. I guess I tapered too much, but it was too late. Couldn't hold anything in. I walked in with tears (I was terrified last night, so much sickness, pain, withdrawals unlike I've ever known..I actually hallucinated, which never happened before. I went to pick up something off the floor, and felt my hand around, but nothing was there. Creepy)..and I was visibly shaking badly when I arrived. I was turned away. They were so full/busy, and in condescending, and in a roundabout way, said if I hadn't had seizures, they wouldn't take me. Can you believe it?!?! (And I've heard of them saying that to others, not sure.) And they said if I start hallucinating again or can't breathe again, like in the night, to call the ambulance and they'll come bring me back. I was practically begging, no I WAS begging them to take me in and said I was terrified I might die. Nope, they care not. Im in such a bad way still, that I'm considering lying and calling them if it gets horrible again and lie, saying I've had a seizure. Don't know what else to do just for a little f-cking Librium!
Then today I went to that Dr, who was busy until Thurs, and demanded to speak to anyone immediately. I said that I was turned away until Thursday, and I had the most horrendous, terrifying, SICK last 24 hours of my entire life, and that I'm extremely upset that she turned me away and they put my life in danger. And lots of waiting and others getting involved, I just wouldn't leave. I told them I tried to taper without meds and felt like I was going to die, and I still think I could, without any meds. Finally they (annoyed, since I busted in, being very persistent for help) then they explained how it works here in Newcastle:
There is no alcohol ward at the hospital, or clinic, here. There's a liver ward at hospital to detox in, but it's every kind of liver issues, and alcoholics are at the bottom of the list of who to treat. It takes weeks, regardless. They've turned many away saying to try again if a seizure. I have to have a seizure to get help?! So the Dr I was seeing has to give me a full assessment, she did today, but getting me into their treatment center and set up takes 3-4 weeks, no meds whatsoever, they're not even authorised to give. So she said my home taper was way too fast, and to drink a lot more, and ween slower. The process takes a few weeks, and she get me to detox after that, but I need to be tapered a lot before then. It doesn't make sense! I asked her "So, Librium in 3 days would fix me, but you want me to go through hell for weeks, and then do detox after?!" I straight up asked, and she basically said, yes, that's how it works here. I went to hospital, by ambulance, in London last year (my other bad relapse), got Librium, vitamins, constant monitoring, the meals were actually delicious in the alc ward, lol, and I was feeling half OK by the next day, and much better by the 4/5th day. I'm just soooooo sick still, and really scared. Why are they prolonging my suffering? I just don't get why the next month must be hell, when Librium, with NO alcohol could help in days. It's insane! I was supposed to be in the states next month to, to see my parents.
Sorry, I'm long-winded again. Sorry for venting, I just feel so helpless her eyes. Just having a rough rough time. I wish I had a way of buying Librium, on Internet or anything, but I find that dodgy, as you never know what you're getting. Anyway....... Hope you all are doing muuuuch better than me. I'm in hell. Thanks for listening. Xx

 

[Jenny425]

So sorry guys, for my last email. I'm going to blow a gasket! You guys have been so inspiring and helpful. I venting because I would've prefer detox, meds, medical assistance. And I'm doing this tapering thing, and badly at that! And holy mother! closeau, you're right, it's hell!!! Thanks guys for being there, I'm very grateful. Xxxx

 

[Jabberwocky]

Don't worry about it Jenny, you are cool with us! It's why we are here

I'm so sorry you have been suffering and struggling so

 

[Jenny425]

Thanks TPD, very sweet message from you.

 

[Moreaux]

So sorry to hear your recent experiences Jenny. I am so frustrated for you. You stated previously that you're an American living abroad, can you come back to the State for treatment? I've heard of many other addicts in your area receiving horrible treatment or lack of treatment, it's sad and unacceptable, and very dangerous.

As horrible as it is, if lying to get into the ER doesn't yield results then keep drinking until your appointment. Stopping and starting drinking is dangerous and actually causes worse damage, and withdrawals get worse with each stopping as alcohol (and other GABAergics) cause a kindling effect.

Kindling

Please keep us updated and or let us know if you need anything. Try to stay positive - you will get through this.

 

[Intense]

Does anyone suffer from esophageal varices due to their extended alcohol use?