Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 7.0

[Squizz1985]

Nothing could get me back into AA/NA.

Sitting around listening to everyone go on about how much fun they didn't have while drinking, or doing their doc..I'd be lying if I said I got nothing from booze or pills. It took far more than it gave, but of course I had fun, of course it helped with my crazy. That's why I did it. I'm pretty insane sober.

I don't know about "insane". I think that word gets thrown around too much, in the 12 step community in particular. You don't sound insane to me.

I'm responsible for my own drinking, they can Fuck right off with their powerless bullshit.

Yep. That's my main gripe with A.A. Addiction is not a disease. You choose to drink.

Sorry, guys, nothing worse than a whining self pitying old woman ... thanks for letting me talk. I'm sad and lonely.

Answers in bold.

Go ahead: Whine away. At least you're doing it on here, as opposed to at the bar or at some drug den. You're doing the right thing. You've identified the problem, and pretty soon you'll start correcting it. It just takes time.

 

[manboychef]

buglife: Things will get better. It sounds like you really need someone to talk to, and maybe a little mental health help. As addicts, we don't use the way we do because life is going swimmingly...we use because there is something missing. When we quit, we now have two things missing....

I task you with this: Sit down with a piece of paper and a pen and write out 1 thing you like about yourself everyday. Eventually you will have a large list. It took me a good year to really like myself again. I kept thinking of the things that caused me pain through the pain I caused...It kept me stuck in the problem, instead of thinking of the solution. Just know that it will not be all better in a day, and I still have times that I am really sad or anxious. I just deal with them differently now. Before, I would drink myself into oblivion, or get so high that I didn't have to feel anything, let alone happiness or sadness. I know its kinda stuart smalley, but you should look in the mirror and say your list everyday. It is called positive self talk, and it is one way to shake the guilt, shame, and remorse that comes along with addiction (basically due to the fact that the lifestyle is so stigmatized, and addicts are the last group of people that can be openly disparaged and discriminated against without fear of reprisal). NSA said something to me that has stuck in my mind and I still think on it today..."Shame is a worthless emotion." I grew up in a verbally and emotionally abusive household. There was no praise when doing something right, however, my brother and I were given hours long discussions we labeled "guilt trips", or we were shamed into doing what they wanted by criticizing, mocking, withholding love, and punishing. This is the definition of a shame based househould. It's foundation is not love or togetherness, but division and character assassination. It has taken me many years to get away from the feeling that if I am feeling okay about myself that I am doing something wrong.

Were you raised in a shame based household? Is there anything in your past that causes you intense guilt or shame? I am here for you if you want to PM me.

ps: 40 is totally not old!! Don't ever think that. Don't sweat the petty things....pet the sweaty things.....lol.

 

[closeau]

That's a great post Manboychef!!!! I was raised in a similar household and usually I didn't wanna talk about. In any case, Things wil get better. Good post

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

AA at least here has a lot of solution in socal...it's nice to hear peoples stories and how their life's are now...with the help of aa. Plus u can meet a lot of good sober connections...I got a sponsor last night ...

 

[Moreaux]

AA at least here has a lot of solution in socal...it's nice to hear peoples stories and how their life's are now...with the help of aa. Plus u can meet a lot of good sober connections...I got a sponsor last night ...

Kudos DrinksWithEvil! Having support is critical at this stage of the game. If/when you do step work, be as honest as you can, and take your time and really consider waging step individually - it's very enlightening.

I can't really knock 12 step programs. I did them for several years and found they weren't for me, but they do help many other people. If it weren't for AA I probably wouldn't be sober now. It was the first time I was able to speak with other addicts in various stages of their addiction, and I learned so much about different resources that were available. They pointed me in the right direction to find what I did require to get sober, and for that I am grateful.

 

[Squizz1985]

AA at least here has a lot of solution in socal...it's nice to hear peoples stories and how their life's are now...with the help of aa. Plus u can meet a lot of good sober connections...I got a sponsor last night ...

^While all this is true, you're leaving out the other side of the coin: There's a lot of liars, cheats, and thieves in A.A. as well. Don't be fooled by their presentation at the meeting. Anyone can act like a saint for an hour, but get these people behind closed doors, and you'll see how they REALLY are.

That's not to say there aren't AMAZING people who will help you in A.A. though. There are. They make up about 15% of the A.A. population from my ten year's of experience at A.A.

Bottom line: Watch your back when you go to A.A.

 

[Squizz1985]

Kudos DrinksWithEvil! Having support is critical at this stage of the game. If/when you do step work, be as honest as you can, and take your time and really consider waging step individually - it's very enlightening.

I can't really knock 12 step programs. I did them for several years and found they weren't for me, but they do help many other people. If it weren't for AA I probably wouldn't be sober now. It was the first time I was able to speak with other addicts in various stages of their addiction, and I learned so much about different resources that were available. They pointed me in the right direction to find what I did require to get sober, and for that I am grateful.

^That's awesome. My problem wasn't with the people per se, it was more that I didn't buy in wholesale to A.A.'s bogus philosiphies. For instance, addiction is not a disease. It's a choice. You, I, and anyone else has the choice to drink or not. When I would say stuff like this at meetings, it didn't go over too well.

It also didn't help that girls threw themselves at me, left, right, and center in A.A. Married or otherwise. But hell, Bill W. was NOTORIOUS for that sort of behaviour. So right away, we can see exactly how flawed A.A. is. If the FOUNDER is having extra-marital affairs at the MEETINGS, I'd say A.A. was screwed from day one.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Erikmen]

I believe AA varies a little from city to city or in between different countries. The bottom line is that one may find it much more difficult to be sober on their own. In and out patient tratments work until a certain point and so does therapy. The philosophy behind these meetings is to be able to talk and listen to those who has been through the similar situations we have. Someone that has never had any issues with addiction will be able to help but the 'lack' of real emphathy could be an obstacle to relate with. That's why I think the help should be as comprehensive as possible. When you are really struggling to keep yourself sober some people will say this is a matter of being responsible with your life while some others may be an inspiration to you.

Everyone is different, and we are all in different phases of recovery. As I have mentioned before, the important thing is to find a place that you feel you can be yourself. With people who will understand why sometimes we feel so lonely after quitting. And it's up to each and everyone of us to perceive what's best for us. Live the present, one day at a time and don't live up to other's expectations. There's a lot to take into consideration when we decide we want to live better and healthier and no one has the perfect recipe.

 

[manboychef]

Squizz: I do believe that addiction is a disease. It is a chronic mental disease. Yes you have a choice. I too believe we are not powerless whatsoever... I think people take the disease model too far...basically to the point of excusing what has been done, and making people believe that it isn't you when you relapse. It is you, there is just something that needs to be worked on.

 

[Squizz1985]

Squizz: I do believe that addiction is a disease. It is a chronic mental disease. Yes you have a choice. I too believe we are not powerless whatsoever... I think people take the disease model too far...basically to the point of excusing what has been done, and making people believe that it isn't you when you relapse. It is you, there is just something that needs to be worked on.

I disagree 100%. Addiction is not a disease. There is no definitive medical information (journals,studies,etc.) that would substaniate that claim. You can believe whatever you want. If you want to believe in Santa Clause, you're more than welcome to. Doesn't make it true.

The word "disease" would insinuate that the person has no control over said condition. Well, we know that isn't true here. Now, I will say this: People who are addicted often times have underlying mental illness/conditions.

And quite frankly, I'm not going to argue with anyone on this matter anymore, because I know I'm right. And a whole SLEW of doctors and other professionals from the medical field would back me up.

 

[Moreaux]

Regarding the disease model and choice - it's easy to sit back and say that we have a choice in addiction and on some levels that is true and others, not so true. While most people don't want to be addicts, some people legitimately cannot stop active addiction on their own - incidentally I think this is where the "powerlessness" piece comes from in 12 step meetings.

I don't know how much it varies from drug to drug, while I've been physically addicted to many drugs, most I could stop on my own, with exception of alcohol. I had zero control over alcohol. Alcohol was the only drug I could not stop By myself. I tried to quit on my own for years and legitimately couldn't - it was a sickness, and it was indeed progressive. After my first stint in rehab when I relapsed I knew I was right back to square one and couldn't stop so the only thing I could do was admit myself to rehab for a second time. Had rehab not been an option I would still be drinking as alcohol kindles so withdrawal from the second round of drinking would have been worse than the first time I quit, and I was already to the stage where withdrawal produced siezures etc.

It is quite possible to literally have no control in active addiction, and with no control comes little choice. In active addiction I didn't want to drink, but the compulsion to continue to drink was too overwhelming. Couple the compulsion with the withdrawal symptoms of late stage alcoholism (siezure, delirium tremors, hallucinations, etc), it is not feasible to simply stop cold turkey outside of a medical setting, nor is it possible to taper alcohol by one's self as drinking removes inhibitions so the alcoholic will drink the entire supply after the first sips of alcohol when trying to taper - for many of us any way. I do believe I was not in a situation where i had the choice to just stop as I lived alone at the time and wouldn't have had help.

Today I absolutely have a choice but it's easy because I am not in active addiction. I can choose to drink or I can choose not to drink, and because I don't want to be an addict and I know the consequences of when I do drink I choose abstinence.

Granted, I absolutely put myself in that position - I am not displacing accountability by saying it got to a point of not having a choice - prior to being a severe alcoholic I could have quit anytime, but I was ignorant regarding addiction and alcoholism so I didn't quit.

 

[Squizz1985]

"It is quite possible to literally have no control in active addiction."

Quit spreading this false propaganda.

 

[Moreaux]

"It is quite possible to literally have no control in active addiction."

Quit spreading this false propaganda.

You are welcome to disagree with me but you are not permitted to be rude. I recommend you soberly consider your tone before addressing members of this site. These recovery forums are a safe and supportive area, and member abuse is not permitted per BLUA.

http://wiki.bluelight.org/index.php/Bluelight_User_Agreement_(BLUA)

Perhaps your addiction/use has not progressed so that point yet, but my experience is different. I can see why you have had interpersonal issues with people in 12 step programs of that is the tone you take others in recovery. I recommend you not be so combative and dismissive of other's experiences if you want to belong to a recovery fellowship, as that type of behaviour is quite offensive and not tolerated by many people. This applies to life in general as well as I suspect recovery groups are probably not the only areas you encounter interpersonal issues.

 

[closeau]

Look, a lot of good stuff has been said here. I can tell the ones who went thru the hell and who didn't. Me at my worst I would wake up cold and thirst and shaking all over. I wshould have went to the fridge to get some Gatorade but I would crawl over to my side table and grab the cup and hold my nose and take a gulp. Sometimes it would go down but mostly it would come back up but I'd keep trying you'll I got a few shots down and the shakes stopped. Well by that time I had put put booze in a malnourished body so sometimes I would already have a buzz and keep drinking and either cal in or go in to work drunk. I think about what a fat selfish pig I was and crawling to that chair is when I'd be most asha. of help out of it and one of my guys that I would call in emergency is stil in program. But I did leave bc I was starting to open up about my daily pill region and got a very negative reaction. I'm like it's not just oisted and benzos but bipolar medication and they kind of turned on me. It's all good. I don't have any harsh feelings. I ain't got time for blackness in my heart. It burns me u sometimes cause ice had the worst year since losing my mom in Nov and leaving AA, I had nobody except my two homeboys. I'm living in a pretty much drug house. I have taken steps to get out and go be with my daughter in Wyoming first of the yrar but it's been a struggle cause I always had my mom t talk to. Since her death I've been all over the place but I remember always saying treat people fair and right. That's what I try to do I don't care who you are. A guy in recovery or a Hells Angel. Treat everybody the same, be quiet and if there's anything they wanna tell you about their life, they will. People will open up, especially people of meager means. I'm glad I don't have to abuse my opiates anymore. I def glad I don't have to drink. The ship has steadied. And this website is made for harm reduction so keep that in mind and be positive, please. We gotta hang together. This shit ain't easy for any of us. Stop the hate and start talking with people. That's what drew me to AA was the sobriety and I'd hear my friends stories and be like nah, they couldn't of done that. But it want the person I knew it was the monster of drinking I'm glad I got sober and I'm glad y'all got sober. Alcohol is poison to me. If y'all evert wanna talk just message me. I don't care who you are. I just wanna help!!!!!

 

[Moreaux]

Oh man closeau -I hadn't thought about the morning struggle in a while. It used to take me 15 minutes to brush my teeth, or give up trying. It would always make me barf. Sometimes I would just pop a Xanax to calm the shakes and then once it kicked brush me.

I'm really glad to hear you're doing well with the opiates - I know a while ago it seemed touch and go. I do wish more AA members were more tolerant of medications - I encountered issues with that as well and it was frustrating because at the time meds were part of my life and they were significant for recovery. Ironically, I got the most hate on Vivitrol lol. They never said anything about Xanax but oh the lectures when they found out I was on the shot, which was the only thing I was taking at the time.

Is everything still going as planned for your move?

 

[Squizz1985]

Well now who's being rude? :D

You sure seem to know a lot about me seeing as I've posted like 5 posts on this forum. Look, if you people want to believe Bill Wilson's lie, you can go right ahead. Just like you're free to believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, or whatever else.

Just stop trying to convince other people of this nonsense.

And since we're in the mood of making reccomendations, I'd strongly suggest YOU read books like "The Sober Truth" and go to websites like OrangePaper.org.

Unlike you people, I've given both sides of the coin a look. Which is why I'm being so "combative". (LOL.)

Have a nice day guys. Sure is nice out here where I'm at. :D

 

[Moreaux]

Well now who's being rude? :D

You sure seem to know a lot about me seeing as I've posted like 5 posts on this forum. Look, if you people want to believe Bill Wilson's lie, you can go right ahead. Just like you're free to believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, or whatever else.

Just stop trying to convince other people of this nonsense.

And since we're in the mood of making reccomendations, I'd strongly suggest YOU read books like "The Sober Truth" and go to websites like OrangePaper.org.

Unlike you people, I've given both sides of the coin a look. Which is why I'm being so "combative". (LOL.)

Have a nice day guys. Sure is nice out here where I'm at. :D

Essentially you reprimanded me for stating my opinion because it differs from your opinion, and you didn't leave the conversation open for debate. I hate to break it to you but your position is also only opinion as nothing has been proven with respect to the levels of control addicts have when in active addiction, specifically late stage addiction as I was referencing. It's a very valid topic and one that should be debated, but that was not you're intention.

As far as me knowing anything about - no, I don't really - just from what you said in your posts. Two out of the twelve posts you've made on this site indicate issues when dealing with other people, and then your response to my post. So you didn't get along with other members in AA, and you were able to save yourself from getting another assault charge when playing poker*...so there are previous assault charges, at least one other. Then we have your response to me which wasn't conversational - you just shut me down and dismissed my opinion. Based on all of that, yes, I believe you have some issues relating to other people. Didn't have to guess.

Many of us here have a significant amount of experience with addiction, I would be careful making assumptions that we haven't considered all positions before forming our opinions. If you take the time and get to know some of us I think you'll discover there are some very intelligent accomplished people on these boards from all walks of life with a variety of backgrounds. If you take the time to consider other people's perspectives and rationally debate you may find that it broadens your perspective.

At any rate, my intention is not to argue with you or continue a back and forth regarding your response. I wasn't trying to be rude, but in reading my response I can certainly see that it can be taken that way - I am a blunt person and can lack tact at times. There is a good anger management thread with valid resources that is stickied in The Dark Side forum - you may benefit. Attitude has a lot to do with getting healthy - the more positive your attitude the greater chance you have for a successful recovery and peace in life. I wish you well on your journey.


*
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...o-play-Poker-(Texas-Hold-em)-where?p=13714127

LOL. That's why I hate playing live. One time I shoved pre-flp with qq for $38 in a cash game. Two people called. One guy had 6/6, another 4/7spades. 4/7 hits his flush on the river. Everyone at the table was like: "OHHHHH."

I was really close to getting another assault charge that day.

 

[BugLife]

I wanted to reply saying thank you. Yes, manboychef, typical step dad abused me, neurotic bitch of a mother upbringing, led to running away at 17, speed, pills and smack. ...the booze was a later addition.

I went out got a half gallon of svedka, and am drinking again.

I appreciate all the kind comments saying I'm not old. I wish I could get some kind of life going, but I've become somewhat reclusive. I just can't stand people.

Ill log off now, last thing I want is to get wrecked and post on here and regret it.

...

 

[Squizz1985]

Essentially you reprimanded me for stating my opinion because it differs from your opinion, and you didn't leave the conversation open for debate. I hate to break it to you but your position is also only opinion as nothing has been proven with respect to the levels of control addicts have when in active addiction, specifically late stage addiction as I was referencing. It's a very valid topic and one that should be debated, but that was not you're intention.

You're right: I didn't leave the conversation open to debate, because there's nothing to debate. I know I'm right.

As far as me knowing anything about - no, I don't really - just from what you said in your posts. Two out of the twelve posts you've made on this site indicate issues when dealing with other people, and then your response to my post. So you didn't get along with other members in AA, and you were able to save yourself from getting another assault charge when playing poker*...so there are previous assault charges, at least one other. Then we have your response to me which wasn't conversational - you just shut me down and dismissed my opinion. Based on all of that, yes, I believe you have some issues relating to other people. Didn't have to guess.

Yeah, I've had run-ins with other people. Just like everyone else on this planet. What's your point here? You're just stating the obvious.

Many of us here have a significant amount of experience with addiction, I would be careful making assumptions that we haven't considered all positions before forming our opinions. If you take the time and get to know some of us I think you'll discover there are some very intelligent accomplished people on these boards from all walks of life with a variety of backgrounds. If you take the time to consider other people's perspectives and rationally debate you may find that it broadens your perspective.

I will gladly debate rationally, with RATIONAL people. When you stat claiming that addiction is disease, that's when I shut you out. You're wasting my time, and your time.

At any rate, my intention is not to argue with you or continue a back and forth regarding your response. I wasn't trying to be rude, but in reading my response I can certainly see that it can be taken that way - I am a blunt person and can lack tact at times. There is a good anger management thread with valid resources that is stickied in The Dark Side forum - you may benefit. Attitude has a lot to do with getting healthy - the more positive your attitude the greater chance you have for a successful recovery and peace in life. I wish you well on your journey.

Ummmmmm. I wasn't asking for advice. And until I do, keep it to yourself. So typical of people "in-recovery": Pushing advice that nobody asked for. It's so annoying. But thanks for your "insight", anyway.
*
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...o-play-Poker-(Texas-Hold-em)-where?p=13714127

Answers in bold. Have a nice day! :D

 

[Squizz1985]

I just can't stand people.
.

Yeah, and neither can I, according to some of the "enlightened" members around here. HAHA.

Like I always say to people who go back to drinking: At least enjoy it, or it's a total waste of time.

I hope things pick up for you soon. Don't lose your faith. -Matt