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Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 6.0

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almost 2 weeks without getting drunk, it doesnt seem like its getting any easier. everyday i have to find someway to convince myself not to go out and get fucked up

well i fucked up

2 weeks than5 litres, someday ill get it right
 
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Well, I have nine months today... For some reason i remembered making a post on this site a few days after my last bender/hospital trip when I was in a pretty fragile state and decided to visit. Been reading through this thread and it's heartbreaking reading about the people still struggling. Brings back so many memories. I got pretty hardcore into the diet/exercise thing and that's been my main tool combined with the knowledge that there is a 100% chance that any drinking will take me right back to where I was very quickly. I really bought into the whole total lifestyle change thing... I still have my wtf is the point days, but overall life is a million times better. Not sure what the point of all this is other than to say I was also in that endless cycle of a few days/weeks sober followed by epic collapse and I've broken free thankfully. It's def possible. Good luck to all!
 
I'm mainly wondering how long it takes to get physically addicted to alcohol in the sense of withdrawal symptoms because I've never had any and I DO NOT want any EVER!!

It didn't even occur to me till lately, having drank on and off for 15 years, that booze doesn't really SEEM very physically addictive TO ME at least, but now I am worrying about it and I know I need to take a nice month long break or so.

It strikes me as odd, because I hear it mentioned as a highly addictive substance often (NOTE: I'm not downgrading it's danger, just questioning how quickly withdrawals are achieved).

I'm a heavy drinker, but not as heavy as some.

I'd say I get drunk twice a week...meaning 8-12 drinks probably, sometimes as many as 14 or so....and then maybe another 3 nights I just have between one glass of wine and maybe 4 drinks, and the remaining two nothing at all...and that's just lately.

I still think I need to cut down, but it made me wonder:


How long and how much does someone have to drink to get actual physical withdrawal symptoms?


I've never had any (hope I never will) and don't know anyone who has.

I think perhaps the PHYSICALLY addictive nature of booze is over rated, but not the danger of the drug itself.

Likewise, how long really would it take for most people who get drunk once or twice a week and have a couple drinks some of the other nights (You know, the average beer belly guy...) to really get PERMANENT irreversible liver damage?

I've drank more than I have been lately and stopped cold turkey for a month or even more without ever getting any withdrawal symptoms so would you guys assume that with the amount I've been drinking I won't get withdrawal symptoms?

For the past 3 months I'd say 1-2 nights a week I have between 8-14 drinks.

Another 3 nights a week I may have 1-4 drinks max.

And AT LEAST 2 nights a week I have zero alcohol, often as many as 4 days a week I don't drink or maybe just have one glass of wine.

Again, I am assuming that since I never got any withdrawal symptoms before other than simply wanting to drink, that I probably won't this time if I go 31 days without starting today which is what I PLAN on doing (I hope I ACTUALLY do...)

I never really started to consider until now that I do have A BIT of a problem.

I would say I have my alcoholic periods, my VERY alcoholic periods, and my dry periods.

But I am willing to admit that whether or not I'm truly an alcoholic at ALL times, that I am when I drink like I have been.

I just manage to not drink as much as some alcoholics...

I have had other periods where I drank more, but maybe not for quite as long.

Also, what would REAL PHYSICAL withdrawal symptoms be from alcohol OTHER than just craving some alcohol?

Someone let me know what you think please.
 
A lot of alcoholics are primarily binge rather than maintenance drinkers, and it can be very destructive. It contains a physiological aspect in that resulting neurological changes can severely exacerbate hangovers and cause changes to how you feel in alcohol's absence.

Why do you feel the need to have 8 to 14 drinks during your 'on' days? This is a pretty aberrant amount. . .

ebola
 
A lot of alcoholics are primarily binge rather than maintenance drinkers, and it can be very destructive. It contains a physiological aspect in that resulting neurological changes can severely exacerbate hangovers and cause changes to how you feel in alcohol's absence.

Why do you feel the need to have 8 to 14 drinks during your 'on' days? This is a pretty aberrant amount. . .

ebola

Yeah, I don't know, and honestly, I have my periods when I really don't drink that much, but now isn't one.

I have a MASSIVE tolerance, that's the thing.

But your bolded comment confuses me a little.

My hangover can be really terrible for sure and I'm a mess neurologically the next day, but I don't notice any other factors on days I don't drink other than sometimes wanting to drink, and it's not usually an irresistable craving, but it is a craving that I often give in to.

Are these "neurological changes" permanent?

I hope not.

My question is more how long it takes most people to actually experience TRUE Physical addiction and also liver damage?

I am trying to cut down now because I obviously want neither, but I'd like to think that right now I am more or less "ok"...

I mean, doctors tests about 10 months ago said nothing was wrong with my liver, or at least I assume something would have shown up if there was something very wrong and I assume in the past 9 or 10 months I haven't done anything permanent to myself, but now I am thinking about it and realizing I really need to cut down.
 
My hangover can be really terrible for sure and I'm a mess neurologically the next day, but I don't notice any other factors on days I don't drink other than sometimes wanting to drink, and it's not usually an irresistable craving, but it is a craving that I often give in to.

While this is kind of a good sign, the effects can be insidious. I suggest taking a break soon (it's up to you whether you want to just stop, of course), and seeing how you feel after one to several weeks. It might be the case that long-term neurological changes are reducing your quality of life, but not noticeably, as you don't have an clear, salient point of reference.


Are these "neurological changes" permanent?

For the most part, no. It's only really in the later stages of alcoholism that you begin to have quite noticeable cellular death linked with cognitive-behavioral deficits (one should pay special attention to the severe deficit in orientation and short-term memory of Korsakoff's syndrome). The brain is remarkably resilient, so it's only really after a large chunk of a lifetime of neurological insults that its plasticity can not cope to allow for recovery.


My question is more how long it takes most people to actually experience TRUE Physical addiction and also liver damage?

When physical addiction comes depends so much on dosage, frequency, idiosyncratic factors, etc. An unluckier person on your dosing regimen could indeed easily become physically addicted. The liver is quite resilient, so if you haven't incurred scarring associated with cirrhosis or hepatitic symptoms, you can pretty much recover fully eventually with abstinence. However, you can't really 'erase' the effects of accumulated carcinogenesis over the years. However, both these conditions usually come after decades of abuse.


I mean, doctors tests about 10 months ago said nothing was wrong with my liver

Good deal. Now is the time to keep it that way.

ebola
 
While this is kind of a good sign, the effects can be insidious. I suggest taking a break soon (it's up to you whether you want to just stop, of course), and seeing how you feel after one to several weeks. It might be the case that long-term neurological changes are reducing your quality of life, but not noticeably, as you don't have an clear, salient point of reference.




For the most part, no. It's only really in the later stages of alcoholism that you begin to have quite noticeable cellular death linked with cognitive-behavioral deficits (one should pay special attention to the severe deficit in orientation and short-term memory of Korsakoff's syndrome). The brain is remarkably resilient, so it's only really after a large chunk of a lifetime of neurological insults that its plasticity can not cope to allow for recovery.




When physical addiction comes depends so much on dosage, frequency, idiosyncratic factors, etc. An unluckier person on your dosing regimen could indeed easily become physically addicted. The liver is quite resilient, so if you haven't incurred scarring associated with cirrhosis or hepatitic symptoms, you can pretty much recover fully eventually with abstinence. However, you can't really 'erase' the effects of accumulated carcinogenesis over the years. However, both these conditions usually come after decades of abuse.




Good deal. Now is the time to keep it that way.

ebola

Thank you.

I've decided I'm not going to drink a sip for the next 31 days starting today (April 27th) till May 27th.

It won't be easy for sure but if I write down that I'm doing it and tell others I think that should help.

I don't like to think of myself as an alcoholic but I guess to some extent I am, just perhaps not as bad as some.

Couple questions:

By the first bolded part are you talking about permanent neurological damage?

Also, if the second bolded part had already occurred how would I know other than a blood test?

Could I already have developed this in the past 10 or so months since I had a blood test?

I have been having some stomach issues lately, getting nauseated a lot, but a factor is that I am taking Alieve everyday because I recently had surgery and I am told to take it every day to bring inflammation down but usually when I drink an accessive amount I do not take it because I know that can cause stomach bleeding though I've had a few drinks on it before (and yeah, once or twice I was stupid enough to get drunk on it but I won't again and I figure I'd know if I had stomach bleeding??).

I also drink a lot of coffee, so these factors I think are combining to cause stomach discomfort.

I know that before my surgery when I only occassionally took Alieve I didn't get nauseated like this so that may be a factor.
 
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By the first bolded part are you talking about permanent neurological damage?

No...I was talking about temporary neuro(mal)adaptation.

Also, if the second bolded part had already occurred how would I know other than a blood test?

I'm not sure, but additional testing would be expensive and unnecessary. I'm sure that a biopsy would be definitive.

Could I already have developed this in the past 10 or so months since I had a blood test?

To the point of significant liver disease? Highly unlikely. To the point of impaired function? Maybe.

perhaps I should tell him??

This is the only real way that she/he can give pertinent advice.

ebola
 
Was drinking while sick a couple weeks ago (save two days I was too I'll, wish I had more of those)
Now I think I cracked a rib from coughing so much the past week+ .. but too busy drinking to see a Doctor, can't even take OTC painkillers since I'm borderline binge-drinking. Haven't been able to excerise due to these health problems either.

Doesn't look like I'll even cut back before a business trip I'm dreading next month. Since I stopped smoking herb and have no positive influences in my life I'm not really seeing a way out.
 
I never thought I'd find myself posting here. I was a poppy seed tea addict for almost 10 years on and off, recently some knuckleheads started to abuse it in my area and where clearing out all the bins daily so I can't get it anymore as all the grocery stores caught on and banned it or switched to none-working seeds. I Switched to alcohol for my fix even though I didn't care for it but because I feel I have to have something and there is nothing else. I have terrible social anxiety problems so my drug use is less limited than what a teenager has access to.

Found myself having a 24 oz of malt liquor every week, then every few days, then every other day and eventually I am up to about a bottle of wine a day (750 ml 12.5%) for the last few months. Reading this thread is kind of counterproductive for me because I don't *feel* like an alcoholic, I can't drink more than that without feeling sick and when I drink I don't get out of control or even have a change of personality I just sit and watch a movie, or listen to music while playing a video game until I pass out. I've never had any negative consequences from drinking at least with behavior. Over the past month I've willed myself to cut my drinking to every two days since I read the likely hood of withdrawal is much less if you do that.

I donate plasma for extra cash and when they did tests on my blood recently my gamma levels (high means your liver is potentially being shot) are abnormal so I can't donate until they are back to normal. They didn't give me any specifics but I am freaking out that it is my liver (I have been on anti-depressants off and on and zantac both of which coupled with alcohol can be really hard on the liver) It does kind of hurt a bit in my upper right abdomen and I have had a couple of hives outbreak, but I am also a hypochondriac so this could all be in my head.

It has been 3 days since I've had a drink. The most I've ever made it is 6. I don't seem to get withdrawals but I get so bored and want a change of reality so bad, it is hard as shit. Maybe these are famous last words but I don't feel addicted and addiction doesn't run in my family. I don't care about alcohol I just want to get high and booze is the only thing I have.
 
Had a major binge on friday, ended up going a bit crazy, swearing at passing vehicles, had a bad argument with my dad, had to get my mum to pick me up and I apparently was speaking in tongues and thought someone else was in the car when it was my bag... Very weird.

She said I was a total mess, I basically ended up pouring my heart out to her about my drinking and she has said she is full on willing to keep me sober.

Im living with her for a few weeks whilst I have a lot of university work to complete. Not Drank since then, and am pretty determined to shoot for full on sobriety. Big ask, but I'm through even with tinkering with the idea of socially drinking. CBT is starting soon so maybe that will help me out.
 
A lot of alcoholics are primarily binge rather than maintenance drinkers, and it can be very destructive. It contains a physiological aspect in that resulting neurological changes can severely exacerbate hangovers and cause changes to how you feel in alcohol's absence.

Why do you feel the need to have 8 to 14 drinks during your 'on' days? This is a pretty aberrant amount. . .

ebola

it realy depends on what you define as a drink, how many drinks do you think go into one 1/5th
 
A drink is a 12 oz. glass of 5% beer, one standard shot of 40% strength liquor, etc.
We should keep in mind that the vast majority of non-alcoholic drinkers consume 1-4 (4 is really pushing it...more for heavier males) drinks 1-7 nights a week. Anything more than that on a consistent basis gives one reason for pause, outside of specific institutional circumstances (eg, binge drinking culture at university) or as a 1-off event. It's not that people who drink more are alcoholics, but it's rather that their behavior might indicate a propensity to go too far in the future.

ebola
 
so does drinking about 2000ml in aday push the limit?well i still got a half , I cant undestand myself i realy hate this but i guess im use to it
 
Lol yes 2000 Ml of booze is extremely high I'm at 750ml a day of vodka everyday for the past 16 months and get the shakes and loss of appetite

Plus I have hep c

It's all a habit
 
i wish i could keep it at 750, but after the first bottle it tends to go pretty fast. plus i have the hep too
 
milliliters. quit using such a small measurement and you won't feel like such a lush.

today at lunch my coworker told me i look like i need a drink after work. there are several nice bars on the same city block that i work; she was semi-offering to take me out for a drink. i did another coworker a (significant) favor after work today, and she asked me what my favorite bottle of wine is. if told any of these people i've used, i'd be pariah. society doesn't make quitting easy, nor feel like an accomplishment. it's really awkward to turn down the friendly gesture; it is almost implicit that you don't drink because of a drinking problem.

whatever, big bucks in my personal accomplishment piggybank. just short of 8 weeks now!
 
I hope this is is not to far off topic, but I realize that a general interest in improving my self, being honest with myself, working the program(s) ( abstinence medication (Campral, Mood stabilizers ) and AA meetings, all without allowing myself to feel overwhelmed , drastically made my recovery happen quicker than normally would. Here's the kicker, I even enjoy non alcoholic beer without temptation of drinking real beer. I find it satisfying .
 
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