Alcohol Vs. Hard Drugs

[Foreigner]

I'd rather just go right to the root of how this whole argument started.

Well, that's totally not true. Heroin can give people some pretty severe brain damages.

Also, there's one key difference. Alcohol can be used in moderation and without addiction, but that same statement cannot be stated about heroin, which is a far more addictive drug than alcohol ever is.

The danger potential of drugs is not just determined by their effects on the body, but the total societal burden. In terms of damage to person and property (violence, accidental injury, mechanical accidents, insurance claims, etc.), legal retribution, and deaths, alcohol is the worst offender per capita. Heroin and methamphetamine are surely hazardous and addictive when abused, but they account for a minuscule amount of the societal burden.

Moderate alcohol intake may not necessarily have the most addiction potential, but it still results in more violence and property damage than any other drug. There is also the fact that alcoholism has a higher recidivism rate because it is legal and easily obtained, has a widespread culture of approval, and it is heavily connected to human socialization. So, we can quibble about how alcohol is not necessarily immediately addictive, but if you ARE addicted to alcohol, it is, in many cases, a lot harder to get away from temptation. Heroin and meth have more physically addictive potential, but they do not have the nod of approval from society, so once you get clean you are not fed tempting imagery all around you as with alcohol.

Also, just in general, it's kind of a moot argument to talk about addiction potential considering that harm reduction does not solely focus on addiction. Alcohol can be more personally destructive than opiates or amphetamines in the wrong hands, depending on which person you are talking to, regardless if you are an addict or not. It could be your first time drinking and you can get into a fatal car accident or drink too much and choke on your own vomit; you could shoot up for the first time and OD.

Most of heroin's burden to society is linked to withdrawals. If small amounts were decriminalized or even legalized, then the steady stream of drug availability would permit more users to get clean, instead of having to break the law to pay for more drugs. Spain and Portugal's decriminalization campaigns have proven this. It's atypical for first time meth and heroin use to cause violence, property damage and death because the addiction has not yet formed; compare that to alcohol where every year first-time drinkers turn violent or get into accidents.

So you see... this issue is not cut and dry. You can't just wave a magic wand and say one drug is better than the other. You have to put each drug into proper context. Their pros and cons are often asynchronous.

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

So you see... this issue is not cut and dry.

I think you painted it pretty cut and dry.

Alcohol = Not as addictive as H/meth, takes longer, but WDs can kill you nonetheless. Burden to society dwarfs any other rec drug.

Drugs like H = Addiction sets in much faster, it's mostly a personal burden to carry, with much less crime/violence on average per capita.

Under the current laws, clearly alcohol creates more overall personal and outward damage. Very slim percentages of the population use H/meth/crack/etc..

...now if meth were available on every street corner tomorrow for cheap, that'd be a game changer. Society couldn't handle that freedom. Violence/paranoia/schizophrenia/rage... a new Blitzkrieg sparking WWIII... was Hitler's DOC after all.

 

[Elven Warriorr]

Alcohol is a hard-drug by almost every standard, it's only because humans have been using it for so long that we simply refer to it as "drinking". There are people who literally don't know that alcohol is a drug.

If alcohol had just been discovered recently, our society would treat it just like H or meth.

Unlike crystal meth, alcohol can be used without becoming intoxicated. Even just one hit of crystal meth can get somebody intoxicated.

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

Unlike crystal meth, alcohol can be used without becoming intoxicated. Even just one hit of crystal meth can get somebody intoxicated.

True, but alcohol does a fine job of making up for its lack of potency compared to meth; widespread use, car crashes, millions more torn apart families by alcohol, arrests, rapes, child abuse, etc.. you can go on all day.

Like I said above, if meth was just as readily available as alcohol and legal, that would turn everything around. But only .2% of the population in the US has used meth in the last month. Compare that to alcohol, which 67% of the pop uses.

 

[MrSexypancake]

There has been a lot of talk about why our society doesn't tend to class alcohol as a "hard" drug, or even a drug at all sometimes. That being said, I don't think anyone has mentioned the difference in ROAs. I by no means think that the method of use is the sole factor in play, but I do feel that it's involved. It has long been said that people fear the unknown and that which they don't understand. Most people tend to drink things on a daily basis, whereas relatively few people shoot anything into their veins. Sure people smoke, but not from crack pipes. I think people see or hear about users doing these things and mentally separate these various substances from alcohol. I think it stands in the way of them trying to view usage from a user's POV.

It's like my buddy always tells me, "Drugs are thought of as bad largely due to the coverage of them. Similarly, responsible driving isn't reported on; news outlets just cover the idiot who caused an 18 car pileup, but people don't start trying to get everyone's license revoked."

Licenses aren't revoked because people have their own experience to temper their view, however. Controversy and tragedy sell; the mundane does not. Then when it comes out that a person uses drugs, everyone who hears is quick to judgment and disdain, because the only experience they have with drugs is hearing about some meth cook who blew up his house or a guy so hopped up on dust that he tried to lift a cop car as they were shooting him. Moderate users, responsible users, and even functional addicts are rarely covered. That's a good thing for them, but it distorts public perception of many drugs.

Hell, there's distortion even among drug users. Nobody discusses all of the times in the past that they had an uneventful high from anything, they bring up their worst trips or that time some crazy shit when down while high.

 

[PurpleKush1]

Unlike crystal meth, alcohol can be used without becoming intoxicated. Even just one hit of crystal meth can get somebody intoxicated.

Unless somebody is genetically predisposed to alcoholism (which is basically just the sole exceptions to this), I have never heard of anybody becoming instantly addicted to alcohol, which sometimes happens with heroin and crystal methamphetamines. And besides, nowhere did I state that everybody that tries out heroin becomes a heroin addict instantly after trying out these substances, I simply stated that that can sometimes happen.

Moderate drinking (which is actually nowhere near as healthy as some people may claim that it is), this actually causes way less cancer-related deaths than smoking cigarettes does, and it also doesn't cause any brain damage, as well as the fact that drinking some alcohol is nowhere near as carcinogenic as smoking cigarettes is, despite the fact that it doesn't really have some health benefits, as some uninformed people may state about the moderate consumption of alcoholic beverages. It's actually not the most toxic drug to somebody's body.

You are literally too stupid,brainwashed and fucking stubborn to try and explain something to you. You always have the same sorry ass arguments everyboyd proved were completly wrong. When somebody explains to you that you were wrong on something, YOU CONTINUE TO SPEW THE SAME BULLSHIT. If you want to argue at least have some valids points,stop repeating yourself like a parrot with half a brain and ACCEPT it when youre fucking wrong and the other person is right. Maybe de-brainwash yourself it would help.

 

[electrodevo]

There has been a lot of talk about why our society doesn't tend to class alcohol as a "hard" drug, or even a drug at all sometimes. That being said, I don't think anyone has mentioned the difference in ROAs. I by no means think that the method of use is the sole factor in play, but I do feel that it's involved.

The ROA definitely plays a factor, as not only can one can consume alcohol at a moderate, controlled rate... it's also a food product and it's really a drug easily made from food (just a small diversion from one of the founding staple foods of modern humanity, bread, actually). This plays a huge role in my opinion into why alcohol is legal, or rather, why alcohol prohibition failed so badly.

I think if other drugs were converted to a similar ROA somehow, there might be less thought that they were "hard" drugs. For most synthetics in particular, people pop pills with unknown quantities of a drug, and it can be a high dose in many cases.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

The ROA definitely plays a factor, as not only can one can consume alcohol at a moderate, controlled rate... it's also a food product and it's really a drug easily made from food (just a small diversion from one of the founding staple foods of modern humanity, bread, actually). This plays a huge role in my opinion into why alcohol is legal, or rather, why alcohol prohibition failed so badly.

I think if other drugs were converted to a similar ROA somehow, there might be less thought that they were "hard" drugs. For most synthetics in particular, people pop pills with unknown quantities of a drug, and it can be a high dose in many cases.

Yeah that's a good point. The fact that alcohol is drank, not smoked, snorted, or injected, leads to the false public idea that it is therefore "safer" and not as "hard". Obviously the massive amount of alcoholics in the world would contradict that notion, but it is still viewed that way in society.

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

or a guy so hopped up on dust that he tried to lift a cop car as they were shooting him.

I rarely lol on forums, but that's the funniest imagery I've read in a while...

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

Yeah that's a good point. The fact that alcohol is drank, not smoked, snorted, or injected, leads to the false public idea that it is therefore "safer" and not as "hard". Obviously the massive amount of alcoholics in the world would contradict that notion, but it is still viewed that way in society.

In the future I think alcohol vaporizers will be more popular, making it easier to get intoxicated fast. Kind of like how e-cigs are replacing cigs. Drug delivery devices are the future..

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

In the future I think alcohol vaporizers will be more popular, making it easier to get intoxicated fast. Kind of like how e-cigs are replacing cigs. Drug delivery devices are the future..

Been seeing this on the news recently. Just last night there was a special on young teens "smoking" alcohol, (really they were vaporizing it).

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

alchohol is a rather hard drug.
you can find yourself crawling on the floor vomiting the shit out of your stomach WITHOUT EVEN NOTICING
and the hangover is horrible if you drink too much
AND (this one i don't know by personal experience) the wds are bad bad bad

 

[Elven Warriorr]

^you're missing the point, there is no danger in stopping crystal meth other than mental anguish. you can die from stopping alcohol.

i agree meth is much more addictive however.

The vast majority of alcohol drinkers, can use alcohol daily in moderation, without becoming physically addicted to this substance. This statement is obviously not true about heroin or crystal meth.

And even when somebody becomes addicted to alcohol, the mental anguish from quitting alcohol is nowhere near as powerful as the mental anguish from quitting something such as crystal meth. Crystal meth destroys somebody's pleasure receptors in the brain way more than what alcohol does. Second of all, crystal meth does everything that's harmful to somebody's body that being a heavy drinker does-such as liver damage, brain damage, and also heart and kidney damages, (it destroys somebody's skin even worse than what alcohol does to somebody's skin, also).

And at least alcohol may take many years to do such damage, but crystal meth destroys somebody's body way faster than alcohol.

 

[treezy z]

And even when somebody becomes addicted to alcohol, the mental anguish from quitting alcohol is nowhere near as powerful as the mental anguish from quitting something such as crystal meth.

ya man, shaking panicking seizuring, hallucinating demons and shit ain't nothing.

go back to world of warcraft.

 

[Lightning-Nl]

Alcohol is by far the most damaging drug for you physically. Ethanol is a potent solvent. Why do you think they put it in literally EVERY cleaning product? Because it kills cells and that's exactly what it does in your body - it kills cells. Yes - other drugs cause physical damage, but it's nothing compared to Ethanol.

Withdrawing from Ethanol is actually one of the only withdrawals that can be deadly. Meth withdrawal may suck, but it's a cake walk compared to Ethanol.

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

ya man, shaking panicking seizuring, hallucinating demons and shit ain't nothing.

go back to world of warcraft.

You forgot dying!

Amph withdrawal, even meth, is a joke in my eyes compared to alcohol/benzos/and to a somewhat lesser extent opiates. Some meth users here will back this up if they read it.

 

[MrSexypancake]

I can't imagine getting addicted to alcohol. It tastes terrible, is one of the least pleasant "highs" of those available, and has a miserable comedown. I'm sure people do it, but it has never seemed all that appealing to me.

Though to be fair, I've never experienced to awful meth withdrawals I hear about. I don't get depressed; I just feel drowsy for a few days.

 

[MrSexypancake]

^ You should really attempt to avoid absolute statements with regard to topics that professionals still debate.
You talk about Meth withdrawals as though all possible symptoms are present in 100% of cases. Sorry, but I have gone through them and know many others who have as well. I have never heard of anyone having hallucinations from them. That is more typical of binge-tweakers who stay up for 5 or more days. Stimulant psychosis is not exactly typical of stimulant withdrawals.

The medical community has done fairly little research on brain damage resulting from meth usage, and there is a debate as to the degree of permanent damage, if any, caused by meth use.

 

[axeman14]

I can't imagine getting addicted to alcohol.

For those with social anxiety and GAD among other things, alcohol can be a effective in low doses at first. Most addiction stems from the user treating an underlying problem. Some of my friends that deal with anxiety prefer alcohol because it treats their symptoms. For me, alcohol doesn't really float my boat but for others it can be very effective at first, eventually leading to one of the more difficult addictions to break.

 

[treezy z]

Alcohol is way less carcinogenic than smoking cigarettes is, although both substances are very bad for somebody that's using them.

carcinogenic vs. non-carcinogenic does not mean safe vs. unsafe. alcohol toxic, period.

btw i'm a regular (1-3 times a week) binge drinker so i have NO anti-alcohol bias but i know it's not good for you.