• 🇬🇧󠁿 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
    European & African
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Addiction

Sorry Sandy you've misunderstood, or more than likely I havent been clear, my heads not working at full steam of late... I didnt know the guy personally, he made recordings of his life as an addict, as a son and brother and it portrays the grim reality of addiction very well and its rippling effect away from the addict into their own family.. Obviously its very dark and depressing so its not an easy watch.

Heres the link should you feel the need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thZbHTvZIQ&app=desktop

No, not your fault, just a misunderstanding. Thank you for filling me in, and my head as well has been far from fully functioning, ha. Still, it does bring up an important point of discussion regarding treatment or even potential mistreatment, not to mention the residual effects experienced by those hit hardest by the loss of someone due to such circumstances (as well as caring about someone with dependency in general.) Grim all around, like you said. Either way, it's a damn shame. I haven't watched the video yet, but will do so now. Thank you for the link.

P.S. Just read the first two pages of this thread for the first time, and I am truly sorry to hear of your struggles. I know how relationships can suffer and how easily hurt and resentments can breed, even from the most understanding of people. I hope that things get better for you, genuinely. Addiction is such a complex, confounding, life affecting ordeal for which, sadly, there is no easy explanation. Just know I wish you the best and that it seems many people on this forum do as well. Best wishes to you and your loved ones. <3
 
Last edited:
I saw it on some level as a way to shape what I perceived my image was, as I was painfully shy and introverted as a teenager and grew to resent that and hate that about myself. So I'm just as guilty regarding wearing it as a badge for a bit in my youth, before it took a darker turn.

Another thing I can relate to. Was also painfully shy and introverted (would add awkward to that list in my case) as a teenager and this was compounded by having a distinctly unusual and generally 'different' background - and indeed present - to any of my peers. Addiction is a great leveller. You too can be a rock star, you too can be a literary genius, you too can have all of this and more for the price of a few bags a day.

Was also inordinately proud of my junkydom status for quite some time. Very big on "Junky Pride" so I was. And still am to an extent. Perhaps not in quite the same way though.

I know some find solace and help in these groups, but I don't think it's the only solution out there and I feel it is unfortunate that it is pushed so emphatically by everyone from therapists to the court system as the end all be all for treatment. I think those there need to be more progressive approaches, b/c I know at least for me it's something I'll always have to stay honest about. I still use drugs, but am at a different place not only in age but in self-awareness and connectivity to those I know I can be open with without them becoming 'Big Book' thumpers.

Another point of agreement. Thankfully we don't have such reliance and emphasis put on the 12 Step thing here in Blighty - it's actually a bit fringe (not to mention cringe) for the most part (at least in my experience) - but there's still a great deal of influence that stems from the 12 Step approach no matter how much evidence there is to stack against it. Great if it works for you, for the vast majority it doesn't and never will. Abstinence is neither feasible nor desirable for a great many addicts, and it certainly is not the only approach to dealing with an addiction. For myself, and essentially everybody I've known, that's an unrealistic target that simply prevents a person from having any interest or desire to go even part of the way because that's never presented as an option - it's all or nothing and comes riddles with guilt-tripping all the way. I don't think that's a realistic or even desirable approach to addiction. Harm Reduction is an ideal I hold dearly. Harm Elimination is a pipe dream for the vast majority I know of. Perhaps at some point down the line, perhaps not. Lumping all drug use under the same banner is simply not helpful. There is a difference between smoking a bit of weed of an evening or popping a few pills at a party and going out day in day out hustling up money for habits. There's a big difference and that's never taken into account with the 12 Step approach. That and it simply doesn't work and is actively harmful in the majority of instances.

*Disclaimer* If it works for you good for you - you are the exception so revel in your exceptional success

What worked best for me was cutting ties from those who I knew would suck me back in to my most dangerous weaknesses (freebase cocaine). B/C that got to the point where I literally felt death was lurking in my shadows and I was weakened mentally, physically, spiritually (and I'm agnostic, so I mean more in a 'being a whole, aware person' sense), and relationship wise. I think it's a line you have to learn how to walk and what substances you can still enjoy and which ones eat away at who you are in your core.

And again. I had to cut all ties with everybody I knew (including fiancée of five years - she wasn't ready to quit so had to be quit) and move to another country to break the ties. Admittedly that other country was only next door to the other one and part of the same overall country so not quite as dramatic as it sounds, but still a complete break with enough physical distance between to make returns a significant enough thing that they'd have to be very much pre-planned and firm decisions rather than whims. Is an unfortunate and little spoken of aspect of addict culture - the way fellow addicts will go out of their way to draw you back to the fold. Yes there is support for trying to quit, should anybody come close to actually succeeding in quitting there tends to be a very different atmosphere though. That's when you get people offering freebies, turning up with stuff to share when they never normally would and so on. My theory has always been that it happens because it brings the whole addiction/quitting thing into far too sharp a focus for people who are too caught up in the former aspect. It demonstrates that there is a way out and it is entirely possible - even amongst your peergroup. It forces questions of why one can and others are not despite near-universal protestations of desire to quit. It makes quitting a reality rather than a topic of endless lamentation. It takes away the excuses and shows them falsehoods.

I agree with the second part of what I quoted too. Although it is one of the hardest aspects of extricating oneself from the addiction cycle and trying to find balance. Few of us want the abstinence thing, most would like the happy medium. Identifying the problem areas is reasonably simple - I think we all know which are our own really - but actually cutting them out and staying within our personal boundaries is not so simple. This would be the stage I'm currently at and have been for quite some time I think. I know where my problems and issues lie in regards drugs. I know which ones will get me into trouble and take me where I don't want to go. That doesn't stop them from being ones that I still have a great fondness and desire for though. I think it's perhaps even harder when there's not such obvious and direct issues with use. I'm unlikely to have to deal with the police and court appearances with my current drug use. I never have to think about hustling up money for things I need to avoid w/d - nor for things I "need" because I feel I need them. I don't have such direct daily facing up to harsh realities to deal with. I think that has left me somewhat in limbo. Not at all the in yer face level of addiction I used to have, but still fully aware of my addict potential along with a portion of the associated problems, far from the full range. For me, I think the biggest problem actually stems from the self-enforced isolation I placed on myself to get away from that more intense level of addiction cos now it's just me I have to answer to and I'm a fairly forgiving taskmaster. I think I could really do with... not entirely sure what really but some level of outside input - something outside of myself - to at least raise the questions cos otherwise they get no answers.

I hope what you had quoted from my post didn't come off as ignorant or brash.

You're an American posting a predominately British forum - ignorance and brashness are presumed as baseline ;)

I keed, I keed <3
 
Another point of agreement. Thankfully we don't have such reliance and emphasis put on the 12 Step thing here in Blighty - it's actually a bit fringe (not to mention cringe) for the most part (at least in my experience) - but there's still a great deal of influence that stems from the 12 Step approach no matter how much evidence there is to stack against it. Great if it works for you, for the vast majority it doesn't and never will. Abstinence is neither feasible nor desirable for a great many addicts, and it certainly is not the only approach to dealing with an addiction. For myself, and essentially everybody I've known, that's an unrealistic target that simply prevents a person from having any interest or desire to go even part of the way because that's never presented as an option - it's all or nothing and comes riddles with guilt-tripping all the way. I don't think that's a realistic or even desirable approach to addiction. Harm Reduction is an ideal I hold dearly. Harm Elimination is a pipe dream for the vast majority I know of. Perhaps at some point down the line, perhaps not. Lumping all drug use under the same banner is simply not helpful. There is a difference between smoking a bit of weed of an evening or popping a few pills at a party and going out day in day out hustling up money for habits. There's a big difference and that's never taken into account with the 12 Step approach. That and it simply doesn't work and is actively harmful in the majority of instances.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that the general perception of AA/NA wasn't as 'favorable' is it is in the States. Lol, even when I tried to give it a go, I still found it rather 'cringe' myself, not to mention depressing and disillusioning. The people who generally rise to dominance in such groups don't gain that power for the correct reasons on many occasions. I even had my so-called 'sponsor' call me up and verbally assault me b/c I dared miss a meeting (had a legit reason for it, too) and I had the gall to not alert her to my every physical and mental choice of action. Sheesh. Anyway, that's just a minor gripe. I agree with you that, regardless of whether it's seen as an 'aww, gee, good for you"/pat on the back solution like in the US or as a bit more stigmatized like you said it was in the UK, the general principles trickle down into drug treatment facilities, counselors, outpatient groups, and just the general fabric of how people think addictions can and should be handled. I think abstinence, in most cases, sets such an unrealistic (and like you said, harmful) precedent that it sets people up for failure, and then the resulting self-loathing sense of defeat that is sure to follow. And guess what comes back? The need to kill those feelings by way of that individual's greatest weakness. I agree HR is the only way. Harm elimination is impossible, b/c risk is always there under many guises. I also think the way addicts are misunderstood or judged by those who don't have any experience (including some 'professionals' I've dealt with) plays a big role in this. I remember reading the comments on DM after Phillip Seymore Hoffman died and it was absolutely disgusting. 99.9% of them were more or less spouting vile, ignorant sanctimony about how he was 'weak' or an 'idiot' or that it wasn't a loss b/c it was 'just another junkie, oh well'. And those were the more palatable comments. So societal blame shifting and stigmatizing is has a long way to go before it evolves, though I don't think it ever will. Most people don't want to acknowledge that it happens all the time in their neighborhood, to their peers who are hiding it, or even in their own families. Dishonesty and denial, to me, are the most dangerous toxins to the understanding and treatment of addiction out there.

And again. I had to cut all ties with everybody I knew (including fiancée of five years - she wasn't ready to quit so had to be quit) and move to another country to break the ties. Admittedly that other country was only next door to the other one and part of the same overall country so not quite as dramatic as it sounds, but still a complete break with enough physical distance between to make returns a significant enough thing that they'd have to be very much pre-planned and firm decisions rather than whims. Is an unfortunate and little spoken of aspect of addict culture - the way fellow addicts will go out of their way to draw you back to the fold. Yes there is support for trying to quit, should anybody come close to actually succeeding in quitting there tends to be a very different atmosphere though. That's when you get people offering freebies, turning up with stuff to share when they never normally would and so on. My theory has always been that it happens because it brings the whole addiction/quitting thing into far too sharp a focus for people who are too caught up in the former aspect. It demonstrates that there is a way out and it is entirely possible - even amongst your peergroup. It forces questions of why one can and others are not despite near-universal protestations of desire to quit. It makes quitting a reality rather than a topic of endless lamentation. It takes away the excuses and shows them falsehoods.

Agreed as well. I am sorry to hear you had to cut ties with your fiancee. I can't fathom how difficult that must have been. But balancing a relationship when substance use is growing to a destructive place is near impossible. And when there is a strong emotional tie there, it becomes far more complicated. I've moved around a lot myself and god changed my phone, email, home in the name of self preservation. It's hard. I've had people I've used with say they'd support me once I told them I can't do it anymore, but then get a call or text days later luring me back in. One in particular called on my birthday with a 'present' within a week of me trying to instate a boundary. When I told him this was innappropriate, he then got verbally abusive and put the blame on me and that I had insulted him. I don't mean to make this about myself, however, I just agree it's a slippery slope and even people with decent intentions can get those distorted when drugs are playing a role. Or someone has a moment of weakness. Or reminds them that their own situation ain't so stable or healthy or forward moving.

You seem very self-aware about where you are in your current attitudes regarding your personal limits, but the best thing one can do is talk and be honest - like you are doing. I get the self-imposed isolation thing, too. At times, I feel like I'm climbing the fucking walls, but it's better than where I was. The tricky part is now keeping the more benign substances I use in check, and I've even let that spiral out a bit too far at times. So again, not to sound like a broken record, this kind of openness is vital. As is honesty and awareness.

I just woke up, so I hope that didn't come off all DURRRR... But just wanted to get back to you. Found the parts about treatment attitudes particularly interesting. Thanks for sharing more about your history as well. (I forgot to add 'awkward' as well as 'ridiculously self-conscious' to my teenage description btw, haha.) It's helpful, I believe, in a cyclical sense to discuss all these layers. Anyway, cheers and hope all is well on this bright (at least where I am, lol, hope it's not overcast in your 'hood) day. ;) Best. :)
 
Last edited:
Top