Addiction

[meee7779]

ur not alone

 

[meee7779]

ur not alone, dont give up

 

[One Thousand Words]

I dunno Si - getting addicted to a drug, even theoretically "addictive" drugs like heroin, doesn't happen overnight. It needs a grim determination to keep taking the drug every day for weeks if not months on end. I don't think everyone has that kind of dedication.

Why do some people hate vegetables and only eat fatty high processed meals? Why do some people say fuck it and sleep through their 8am lecture? Why do some people speed in their car or not wear sunscreen in the blazing sun? These aren't hidden mysteries of how to be successful in society, yet many people ignore them because they think they know better. Or perhaps they are just ignorant?

Plenty of people here get told to cool their jets when they start dabbling mid week with their drug use. Bluelight is a resource of people who have been there, done that and wish they had done things differently. Yet without fail I watch almost yearly a member go from a weekend clubbier to a mid week chipper to losing their job and supporting a proper habit. It makes people feel better to think they have a disease and have no control over this happening but reality is everyone suffers, they are called emotions and while drugs feel great, the majority of humans are not selfish enough to think they are any different to the rest and immune to failing to addiction

Addicts are simply the ones who did not know when to fold em......

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Very good apart from the last line. People are capable of being selfish to the point where they think they are different to the rest and therefore immune blah blah. Thing is, all those people before them, thought exactly the same thing...it's a harsh model of reality and there are kinder ways of saying it...but it's essentially true.

 

[ScotchMist]

@ shambles - most excellent post, this isnt a recent development and ive been in and out of drug treatment services since I was 20, im 30 now, years 15 to 20 I was flat out and didnt want any help.. so im no stranger to the services, ive had awful and incredible workers over the years.

What is recent though is me actually standing back and trying to look at the real problems, not just my usual, stop the drugs and alls ok because evidently its not. I keep finding myself with shit all over the fan with a perplexed expression on my face wondering how the hell I got back here... its dawned on me theres other things at play here that keep dragging me down this path.

I've decided im going it alone anyway, im not waiting for the services, ive got myself some Lafexidine, diazs and zops along with various vitamins and what not, ive reduced my habit down maybe half a point a day, thats taken some fuckin doing to, actually putting a plate down and saving half for tomorrow, so stepping off shouldn't be to bad, alot easier than previous ones anyway. I'll just use the services for support.

Having tried NA again recently I just dont get it, I can see its worked but I just dont get it and god (higher power) knows ive tried..

Should be getting my head down for my last decent nights sleep. Roll on tomorrow, im actually looking forward to it... ill keep y'al posted how its going

 

[Shambles]

I can't be bothered to attempt to eloquently explain it like Stefan Molyneux, so here's his take on addiction and why some of us our more vulnerable to forming addictions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp4pEP3X_NY

So yeah, definitely watch this ScotchMist if you're all torn up and confused about your addiction. It'll really shed a lot of light on your problems and make your girlfriend's opinion seem somewhat ignorant. Not to say she hasn't been negatively affected.

Interesting vid. He makes some valid points but also greatly overeggs it. Saying things like "all female addicts were raped as children" is just ridiculous. What he says about downregulation of neurotransmitters in childhood in reaction to stress, neglect, abuse and such like is interesting though and I have no doubt does play a large role in a great many cases - I'd be all but certain it would play a large part in my own situation, and (anecdotally from speaking with addicts over the years) such situations are certainly far from uncommon. However, the counter-argument is always that there are plenty other people who experienced abuse or neglect in childhood who never go on to develop addictions. This is entirely true and he seems to completely skip over this fairly relevant fact. Perhaps this might be where a possible genetic component comes in, and/or factors like existence or lack of various support networks around you - alternative means to provide comfort, support, stress release and so on away from the abusive/neglectful environment. Personally, I am completely sure that the things he talks about are very much a factor in a great many cases where a person goes on to develop addictions - perhaps even a majority of cases - but it's certainly not the only answer nor is it a complete answer.

 

[One Thousand Words]

How does it explain an 80 yr old becoming an addict after being prescribed meds, despite having no addiction to anything else throughout their life?

 

[Shambles]

How does what explain such a situation? That vid? It doesn't. I'd imagine the reasons for becoming addicted to prescription meds at any age would be reasonably self-explanatory. Unless said prescribed meds are antibiotics or summat which would be odd. If painkillers, sedatives, antidepressants or any other class of addictive drug then the fact it's an addictive drug would probably explain the addiction involved. It's generally thought of as dependency with prescribed meds as the fact they're prescribed tends to bring a different mindset and outlook to what is otherwise a more or less identical substance to related street drugs, but ultimately whether it's called a dependency or an addiction it will still involve withdrawal symptoms (or... that silly euphemism for w/d symptoms they use for prescribed meds I forget). With prescribed meds the psychological aspect of w/d is often less pronounced due to aforementioned differences in mindset and outlook involved but the differences between a drug-dependant person and a drug-addicted person are not all that great necessarily.

 

[One Thousand Words]

So you are saying it is unlikely that Nan was raped as a young child?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

(or... that silly euphemism for w/d symptoms they use for prescribed meds I forget).

Do you mean 'discontinuation syndrome?' it always cracks me up that one.......

 

[Ismene]

A person can use an addictive substance - any addictive substance - for years without ever developing an addiction if they are extremely cautious about taking breaks. Like you drinking your glass of wine everyday but not drinking a bottle of wine everyday (I'm pretty sure your "I can't get addicted to anything" stance would change if you tried that for any significant period of time). Life is unstable and can really pull the rug out from under sometimes though and it's that that makes the tipping point. Caught off-guard and maybe at an acutely low point physically, emotionally, psychologically, any or all of the afore, it's incredibly easy for your perceptions of whatever addictive substance you've used successfully without ever seeing the underlying teeth.

It's a whole other ballgame taking a drug often enough to become addicted to it tho shammy. Drinking a bottle of wine a day would be as difficult for me as running a marathon every day. I'm getting on quite a bit now, had quite a few troubles, and I'm certain it's not possible for me to be addicted to anything. Regardless of the fact that if you take the same drug every day it becomes about as much fun as a kick in the stones, mentally I wouldn't have the dedication. Even psychedelics that I love beyond reason I know taking them too much destroys all the pleasure.

I don't believe everyone is vulnerable to addiction. No matter if everyone in my family died tomorrow, the house burned down and I was barred entry to the US, I wouldn't start taking a drug all the time. And I know the argument is "How do you know?" but I'm old enough now to have a definitive answer.

Is there a drug that you can take every day and still find it fun? I've never found one.

 

[steewith2ees]

Is there a drug that you can take every day and still find it fun? I've never found one.

Poppers

 

[Shambles]

Do you mean 'discontinuation syndrome?' it always cracks me up that one.......

That's the fella. I brought it up with my GP once and he said he thought it was a ridiculous term and agreed it was simply a euphemism for w/d symptoms as drug companies object to being thought of in that way. As euphemisms go it's not even that good - they surely could've come up with something a bit more flowery and amusingly extravagant.

I found crack to be very much in that category which is amongst the reasons why I decided it had to go. Heroin (and other strong opiates) work very well indeed taken daily for a fair few years - takes a good while for the novelty to wear off. Others haven't had similar appeal to me however much I may enjoy binging on them - most are self-limiting in one way or another. Then again, despite being a total speedfreak I have only ever binged - never used truly habitually - but there are those who do use stims in similar ways to people would use a drug like heroin. Similarly with alcohol, I simply cannot bring myself to drink daily no matter how heavily I may binge sometimes but plenty have no trouble doing so. I would very much suspect it's an individual thing and different people are susceptible to different substances (or indeed behaviours - gambling and the like).

Poppers

As long as you don't object to that nasty red rash around the nose and chops you tend to get if you try that. Not the best look. (misspent youth 8))

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Is there a drug that you can take every day and still find it fun? I've never found one.

For me, cannabis, undoubtedly. I accept YMMV. I think George Clinton agrees with Shammy re crack.

 

[Ismene]

I found crack to be very much in that category which is amongst the reasons why I decided it had to go. Heroin (and other strong opiates) work very well indeed taken daily for a fair few years - takes a good while for the novelty to wear off.

But doesn't it interfere with your daily life taking drugs every day? I don't think I could hold down a job and hit the pipe every night for example.

For me, cannabis, undoubtedly. I accept YMMV. I think George Clinton agrees with Shammy re crack.

Not me shm, any drug taken every day turns to shit very, very quickly for me. Perhaps that's the definition of someone who isn't vulnerable to addiction.

Mind you - it was a pretty close run thing with masturbation on mephedrone. That certainly tempted me :D

 

[Shambles]

Of course it interferes with daily life smoking crack all day - it's really not a drug that fits well with having a "normal" life. That doesn't mean you don't want to smoke it all day if you get a taste for it though. There are many ways of earning money that don't involve going to work as such... not ways many would choose as their first option but is amazing what a person can come to see as acceptable when addiction (or even strong compulsion which is more the case with crack) is involved. Having said that, you'd be amazed who would arrive every weekend at the dealer's place. All the usual professional types wheeled out as examples were there in force every week - and being professional types they were spending hundreds if not thousands per night. I'm pretty sure if I'd been around (and dealers didn't get busted so often) I'd be seeing the very same people on a daily basis spending tens and twenties a few years down the line.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Not me shm, any drug taken every day turns to shit very, very quickly for me. Perhaps that's the definition of someone who isn't vulnerable to addiction.

I dont know, once the honeymoon period passes for any substance, and the negative effects begin to mount up, some people are still unwilling / unable to stop w/e substance that may be having a debilatating effect on their life. I think there's more to it than the effects turning to shit.

 

[Si Dread]

surely you have to be continuing to enjoy a drug to remain addicted to it? If it wasn't for the overwhelmingly negative after effects, I would have remained addicted to & still be using Mephedrone. I ceased to enjoy the actual effects because I knew I was using the stuff compulsiively & would be suffering badly later. I saw that the stuff was going to bring me down if I didn't get hold of my usage, & that meant getting rid of what was left, & refusing to buy it ever again. So far, so good!

Unfortunately, I replaced it with daily use of alcohol which brought even more emotional & psychological problems than Meph had & have been consistently reducing my alcohol intake since those became apparent.

What makes one person continue to use a drug, despite the negative effects, & another call it a day at that point?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

The negative effects of too frequent use of Mephedrone can be so severe that it can really quickly become unsustainable and self limiting. Other substances like benzos, opis etc do not seem to lead to such almost immediately obvious 'burnout' type effects, so the habits can be sustained for much longer and become much more deep rooted.

 

[Sammy G]

I don't know about that: cocaine, meth, crack and speed are all particularly problematic drugs addiction-wise, and all of them can lead to burnouts on a par with mephedrone, if not significantly worse.