Stimulants Adderall refill stopped working (SOLVED: Vit D Deficiency)

[helpingout]

That reminds me... I figured out why my hands were so shaky before. It was from my lithium. I think I have to switch back to depakote. I have to talk to my doctor about that.

It’s cool to see the way you check in with your body. But I think you need to learn the rule of thirds. I’m learning it right now myself so I’m happy to share with you. If you don’t want to learn it I would stop reading here.

I heard that in life, one third of your time is going to suck. It might as well be wasted time. But if you apply that wasted time towards something you believe in than it won’t truly be wasted. It will just be a day where your performance dipped. Another third is going to be just okay. You’re not going to feel great. It’s going to be days with all those symptoms listed in the table above. It’s just how life is. Adderall isn’t meant to make you feel good every day all the time. That’s simply not how tolerance works. It’s also not the intended effect of the medication. You’re supposed to become more normal not more extraordinary. So on the final third you are feeling good. You are feeling excellent. That’s not the medication. That’s you. Your natural self. Kicking ass and handling business. You’re a fucking superstar at being you and no one could do it better. Those days are sprinkled in between the okay days and the bad days.

The medication isn’t supposed to make you feel good days all the time. You’re not supposed to feel wired to take on tasks. You’re supposed to feel clear headed and capable. You can feel this way on a good day, on an ok day, and on a bad day. You can feel these three when you’re taking your adderall or when you’re not taking it.

I think hyper analyzing why you’re having an ok or a bad day with your medication is built on the fundamental assumption you’ve made that your medication should be working great every day. Where the reality is really that you need to be working through every day regardless of how your meds feel at that moment.

Four months of your year, four refills of your script will likely feel good and like they’re working. But those four months are going to be peppered in between the 8 months where you’ll just feel okay perhaps even feeling bad.

Take a tolerance break.

Not because the meds aren’t working. But just because it will be healthy for you as it is for every individual taking medications that develop tolerance. It will help you. You’ll feel better. It will round out your experience.

Obsessively annotating and charting your bad days just means that your hyperfocus is stuck in a paradoxical loop where you’re tracking your bad days as irregular and tracking your good days as normal. This is simply not how it works.

Start tracking how you’ve faced each day regardless of how you felt. Start tracking how you overcame the obstacles. The type of magnesium you’ve taken isn’t the responsible culprit for your bad days. Bad days just happen. And okay days happen too. And they’re the majority of the days we’ll experience here on earth.

Take a t break.

 

[stuffmonger6]

Hey all,

I'm a mid-20s guy with ADHD taking 22.5mg of generic Adderall daily. I had been taking this for a year with great results, sticking to the same dose for 6 months without any drop in efficacy. About 2 months ago I got a refill from a different manufacturer that was WAY less effective, to the point where I felt unmedicated. Requested not to get those pills next month and got another new manufacturer with the same problem.

Here's where it gets weird:

I knew the problem wasn't sleep or diet because I was getting 8 hours and watching my calories, and I wasn't taking anything acidic, high vit C, or caffeinated. No supplements at the time, and after starting fish oil, vitamin D, exercise, L-tyrosine nothing really helped. BUT the meds were 'working' when I took them; I felt them kick in, and some of my symptoms improved. I listed the symptoms and side effects of each med:

Original Pills = Complete Improvement with side effects of increased thirst and occasional teeth grinding

New Pills #1 & #2 = Improved focus, social anxiety, hyperactivity, forgetfulness (but NOT task paralysis) with side effects of lethargy, depression, & feeling cold.
In short, the new pills gave me a clear head but didn't give me the ability or drive to actually do shit. At first I thought this might be an issue of potency, so I made the risky decision to take 30mg of the new pills in the morning (with nothing else) all at once instead of the normal 10mg. This didn't really help--I was super focused and clearheaded, but still unable to start my tasks like I wanted to.

Exactly 3 hours after taking that dose I felt a HUGE improvement, like my symptoms got better in the way they used to when I was taking the old pills. This kicked in literally in the span of a few minutes and continued to get better for another 2 hours before the meds wore off. I was baffled by this; why would the meds work better when they start wearing off?

From what I could find on the internet, Adderall is composed of dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine in a 3:1 ratio. This ratio is really important for the therapeutic benefits for ADHD treatment, but generic manufacturers may have small differences in the ratio because of how they create the meds. Dextroamphetamine mainly produces dopamine while levoamphetamine produces adrenaline, and if either is out of whack you'll feel and perform worse. I also found this from Wikipedia and the FDA's guidelines on Adderall usage:

"The mean elimination half-life of levoamphetamine ranges from 11.7 to 15.2 hours in different studies.[5][49][3] Its half-life is somewhat longer than that of dextroamphetamine, with a difference of about 1 to 2 hours."

Which leads me to my current theory: the new pills I was taking didn't work because they had too much dextroamphetamine relative to levoamphetamine, fixing my issues with focus while failing to improve lethargy, motivation, or task paralysis. Changing the dose did NOTHING to help because it was an issue with the ratio of the ingredients, and I only noticed improvement when the meds wore off because the d-amphetamine wore off faster and balanced the ratio in the process.

Thoughts?

I'm requesting my old manufacturer for my next refill, and will look into ways to boost adrenaline or levoamphetamine to see if I prove my theory & make these new pills work 100% of the time. Otherwise, I'll be stuck with 2 months' worth of ADHD meds that don't work for me :/

Also, other factors to consider is, for me, testosterone levels. If my test is high it lowers the effectiveness or the come up or motivation from the ADDs. Also as you mentioned avoid caffeine and vitamin c, also- kombucha seems to lower effectiveness possibly. Thanks for all the great info in the thread.

 

[zarangezid]

One last update because I just had to share this:

Things are great now; better mood, shit's getting done, memory and focus--the whole nine yards. It took a little while to figure this out, but the problem was actually the magnesium in the magnesium glycinate. I ended up having the same issues with magnesium chloride after a day or two of supplementation, even with doses under 100mg a night.

Luckily, I knew from past experience what was going on. Another day or two and some glasses of milk, and everything was back to normal. One thing still bugged me about all this, however.

I'm ADHD, hate vegetables and leafy greens, love dairy, used to drink coffee daily, currently take Adderall daily... I had practically all the risk factors for magnesium deficiency, so how the hell was I not only not deficient, but so sensitive that even a tiny bit could ruin my mental health?

I had chalked it up to weird genetics, but today I decided to take another look at my generics. After a bit of digging, I found a filler ingredient used in every one of the generics I had taken in the past: magnesium stearate.

No wonder supplemental magnesium made me feel like shit; I was already taking magnesium every single day for the past year! Also explains why I never had an issue with magnesium deficiency symptoms before, since the Adderall itself was replenishing the magnesium it used up.

This doesn't really change anything; I'll just continue not taking magnesium supplements, keep drinking milk, and enjoy my Adderall working the way it should. I guess I was too smart for my own good this time; here I was trying to get ahead of magnesium deficiency, and my generic's manufacturers had already fixed the issue for me

Will also keep an eye out in the future, so I can spot if I get any non-magnesium generics and supplement accordingly.

 

[knockout_mice]

Decided to quit all my evening supplements last night, in case one of them has been causing problems. That means no more melatonin (1-2mg), magnesium glycinate (200mg), vitamin C (500mg), or Kava tea (5g)

Just a note: Kava Kava inhibits some of the enzymes responsible for the metabolism of amphetamines (CYP3A4 and to some extent CYP2D6).
In theory it would lengthen duration of the effects, but I might be wrong here.

Regarding magnesium: while it's recommended as a "sleep aid", it's possible that it has a negative effect on sleep structure because of its NMDA antagonistic effect, e.g. shortening REM sleep. If you have some way of measuring it, e.g. a smart watch, I recommend you do some experiments. Also I'd try taking it in the morning and see how it changes the equation for you.

Magnesium also effects the absorption of some drugs, so it might be wise to take it separately.

 

[Vastness]

One last update because I just had to share this:

Things are great now; better mood, shit's getting done, memory and focus--the whole nine yards. It took a little while to figure this out, but the problem was actually the magnesium in the magnesium glycinate. I ended up having the same issues with magnesium chloride after a day or two of supplementation, even with doses under 100mg a night.

Luckily, I knew from past experience what was going on. Another day or two and some glasses of milk, and everything was back to normal. One thing still bugged me about all this, however.

I'm ADHD, hate vegetables and leafy greens, love dairy, used to drink coffee daily, currently take Adderall daily... I had practically all the risk factors for magnesium deficiency, so how the hell was I not only not deficient, but so sensitive that even a tiny bit could ruin my mental health?

I had chalked it up to weird genetics, but today I decided to take another look at my generics. After a bit of digging, I found a filler ingredient used in every one of the generics I had taken in the past: magnesium stearate.

No wonder supplemental magnesium made me feel like shit; I was already taking magnesium every single day for the past year! Also explains why I never had an issue with magnesium deficiency symptoms before, since the Adderall itself was replenishing the magnesium it used up.

This doesn't really change anything; I'll just continue not taking magnesium supplements, keep drinking milk, and enjoy my Adderall working the way it should. I guess I was too smart for my own good this time; here I was trying to get ahead of magnesium deficiency, and my generic's manufacturers had already fixed the issue for me

Will also keep an eye out in the future, so I can spot if I get any non-magnesium generics and supplement accordingly.

Magnesium stearate is used as a filler in almost everything. If you're taking other supplements, you're still taking magnesium stearate. It's so common it isn't even always listed, and the amounts used are so miniscule that the biological impact is going to be so minor when compared to the massive biological impact of, say... a daily dose of a blunt stimulant. It isn't even particularly bioavailable in and of itself because (IIRC) it somewhat resists digestive absorption.

Adderall was replenishing your (supposed, probably imagined) magnesium deficiency..? Nope, sorry, don't buy that at all. If you truly think your magnesium levels are an issue here get yourself tested and report back, such tests are widely available by now, not too expensive, and would be a quick way to validate or invalidate this extension of your "it's not just tolerance!" delusion.

Also... didn't you actually just take a tolerance break anyway?! 6 days or however long it was isn't huge but enough to feel an impact. Now surprise surprise your daily speed prescription feels stronger again and you're chalking it up to a massively common binder that quite honestly is probably used in every form of pressed speed pills available, there actually aren't that many other options. It's not "weird" that your generics had this ingredient listed, it's normal, and even those that don't explicitly list it probably still have it, either grouped into a generic addendum to the ingredients list ("mixed inactive binders" or something) or just not at all.

Even taking into account my own admitted jadedness here, this is all too much of a stretch. You developed a tolerance, you took a break, during that time your mood fluctuated, you tried a bunch of supplements while digging for a reason this might not be just tolerance, placeboed yourself into finding a plausible one and validated it to yourself when after your tolerance break your medication did indeed work better.

In the interest of keeping an open mind, there has been some debate over the possible impact of magnesium stearate's wide usage in pills and supplements before, there have been some indications that MAYBE, in some highly sensitive individuals - there may be a minor negative impact. HOWEVER - given that you are into supplementation, it is almost guaranteed you are still taking magnesium stearate without knowing it, so it's highly, HIGHLY improbable the minimal amount in your actual prescription is the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. Most more recent studies with larger sample sizes - IIRC - do not even replicate any significant negatives so while it's not IMPOSSIBLE that you are a sensitive individual in this specific instance and that weirdly, that factor WAS the straw that broke the camel's unsustainable amphetamine habit, so to speak... it's almost so improbable when weighed up against every other factor I already mentioned as to be bordering on conspiracy-thinking, like most of the initial concern about magnesium stearate has become.

 

[zarangezid]

Final update: I was wrong about the magnesium. Or at least, I was only half right.

I figured this out yesterday after taking some vitamin D, since I had read that it uses up magnesium when metabolized. Easy way to suck up excess magnesium, right? So I took 1,000 IU of vitamin D.

Ho. Lee. Shit.

Within the hour I was already feeling brighter, clearer, emotional (in a good way, even before this whole saga I had gotten emotional blunting with adderall). I took another 4,000 IU that same day because each time I felt better, and not only was that awesome but I also wanted to see when the benefits would stop.

Day two of vitamin D, and so far they haven't. Have taken 10,000 IU today, and here's the kicker: magnesium WORKS now! I can take it and feel clear, calm, muscles relaxed--all the benefits I mentioned before, but this time with zero depression whatsoever. No need for calcium pills, I can just drink some milk and good to go! I wish I could take you inside my brain and show you how much better I feel since it's hard to put into words, but it's basically like when I first started Adderall. Speaking of Adderall, it's working enormously better with none of the depression issues when taking with magnesium anymore. I've taken a third my daily dose today with at least 10x the results, and it's only 3:20.

Can't help but laugh at myself for trying every vitamin and supplement under the sun while I had vit D right there in my drawer. I even took it a couple times, felt better, then attributed it to other stuff and dropped it from my stack! The milk, the long walks I felt I needed to go on daily, the calcium pills (which also contain vit D, go figure). For fracks sake, I even took a DNA test that showed TWO mutations for low vit D and did nothing because "it's summer, I couldn't possibly be deficient in vit D during the summer."

So far the only negative symptoms were initial irritability, and some trouble sleeping that I'm guessing came from taking it too late in the evening yesterday. I also got some cramps for a bit, but some magnesium and K2 fixed it within an hour. Going to get a blood panel to confirm just in case, but in the meantime, I'm taking 5,000 IU vitamin D with magnesium, K2, and some milk to avoid burning through any co-factors. Wish me luck!

In retrospect, my vit D & magnesium levels were probably always below average, just not bad enough to become noticeable. When I started adderall it began to drain my magnesium levels, and since magnesium is required for vit D absorption, my vitamin D levels dropped too. Then I started taking magnesium pills without any vitamin D, tanking what was left of my calcium levels without any way to replenish it.

Side note: As for the manufacturer stuff, I've found that generics containing maltodextrin (AKA compressible sugar) work WAY less effectively for me, even with the vit D and magnesium fix. They also give me the runs, so I'm guessing it just doesn't agree with my celiac. Besides that, all other generics work the same. Here's a link to the list of generics for anyone with a sensitive gut.

 

[zarangezid]

One week later and things are back to normal--a new, better, normal. I worked my way up to about 25k IU vitamin D per day, though it was probably something like 50-75k when accounting for the time I spent in the summer sun. We were lucky to get amazing clear weather this last week, which made for some good times running :D

The benefits started to taper off and I noticed some negative side effects on Tuesday, so I cut back the vitamin D supplements over the last few days. I'm at 1k IU today, and will probably stay somewhere in the 2.5-5k range after getting a serum test. All in all, I was surprised at how fast and seamless the vitamin D megadosing worked. I had been bracing for nasty side effects, but by doing some research and taking care of co-factors I managed to avoid any major issues. For those taking lots of vitamin D, the main things you'll need are lots of magnesium, some calcium & vit K, vit A (but not simultaneously with the vit D), and a little vit E. I also took boron and vit C to help with magnesium absorption, mainly to not have to take magnesium as often. Side note, but vit A supplementing was really phenomenal as well. Night vision got 2-3x better, and my face has never been so smooth and clear.

Been at around 7.5-15mg this week, and plan to stay there for the next month at least. Will also increase tolerance breaks and minimize my Adderall usage during the day, seeing as it's much more bearable being off the stuff with adequate magnesium & vit D levels. In other news, my runs are better, and I've been having a very easy time going to sleep too. I might even cut the 1-2mg melatonin from my stack, depending on if this keeps up.

All in all, I get less energy and 'get shit done' urgency from Adderall now that I'm taking magnesium & vit D consistently. But I'm calm, balanced, socially engaged, slower to anger, the list goes on. Not only am I able to take less and still function well, but in some respects I function better than I ever did. Even before the anhedonia and depression I had emotional blunting and antisocial tendencies when taking Adderall, something that's clear to me in retrospect. And if it's a choice between being a loner workaholic or a happy, amiable person who gets less done, then I think that's a pretty easy choice to make.

 

[zarangezid]

Final Update: It's been a few weeks now, and things have improved massively. I feel like my old self again, like when I first started medication. Even better, frankly.

It took some trial and error to find the perfect setup, which right now is 5,000 IU Vit D + K, 50-100mg magnesium, and some dietary calcium. Getting lots of sun too, so I'll probably have to start upping it in the fall.

I quit taking vitamin D for a few days after I started getting a sore throat, because I believed that was a side effect. A few days later and it turned out I had just gotten sick, and my overall well-being took a nosedive after going off the vitamin D. Feels like more confirmation that I need it, and that I'm far from being saturated.

Physically speaking, I have clearer skin, amazing hair (no split ends or frizziness), my sense of smell is 4-5x better (mixed feelings on this one XD), my mile time is down 2 minutes, my insomnia is gone, and I feel stronger and more ready to go in the mornings.

Best of all, I have zero anxiety, irritability, or brain fog. I'm still pretty dumb off my meds, but I'm a functional dumb. That, and I feel good and don't overthink things. In all honesty, I used to take my meds because it would stop my overthinking and help me be more calm and measured in social settings, but I don't even need to do that anymore now. I forgot to take my meds this afternoon, for example, something that NEVER happened before.

Only long-term negative I've noticed is slightly more acne, though I have so little to begin with it barely matters. I take a bit more vitamin A and some zinc which keeps it in check. Also switching to milk alternatives more lately, since I feel dairy exacerbates it.

I'm down to 7.5mg a day (you heard that right), and I take the weekends off entirely. And I'm doing better than ever. Vitamin D works!

My Stack:
5,000 IU Vit D + K
50-100mg magnesium malate (I nibble it throughout the day)
1-2 cod liver oil capsules
500mg vit C
3mg boron
5-10mg zinc
24mg iron (Taken as needed, I do a 60-second anemia check and only take it if I get noticeably lightheaded afterwards. So far I've only needed to take one pill in two weeks.)
0.5mg melatonin
7.5mg Adderall on weekdays

Peace out everyone!