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Stimulants Adderall refill stopped working (SOLVED: Vit D Deficiency)

What if you take L-DOPA with it ?
Absolutely not.

Tyrosine is rate-limited, meaning it won't produce much more than your brain's natural amount of dopamine. That's why I went with it, along with the anticholinergic properties (had a bad reaction to fish oil & vit D a while back).

L-DOPA is pretty much straight dopamine which means no biological limitations. Any benefits I felt would be unsustainable and unhealthy.
 
You can't hack amphetamine tolerance. Either the dose goes up or you take a break so your tolerance drops. Trying to mitigate it with supplements is just pissing in the wind.
I went up once a few days ago to see if it was tolerance, taking 30mg one morning when I usually take 3-7.5mg at a time and no more than 20-25mg daily.

The depression effect was exactly the same as lower effects, the only change was that it lasted for longer.
 
Decided to quit all my evening supplements last night, in case one of them has been causing problems. That means no more melatonin (1-2mg), magnesium glycinate (200mg), vitamin C (500mg), or Kava tea (5g).

Will quit the morning supplements tomorrow if there's no sustained improvement, which will mean no more tyrosine (0.5-1g) or B vitamins. Will probably keep the digestive bitters since I doubt that would cause issues and I need to eat more :p

If there's still no improvement, then the day after that I'll quit taking my meds for at least a week.
 
if I was just feeling these getting worse despite taking the same dose of my meds etc then tolerance would make the most sense. The reason I don't think that's the case is because I never used to have mood or motivation issues before--even when unmedicated!

I was more the "bounce from one short-term project to the next" kind of ADHD; so feeling grey and apathetic much of the time is both unusual and alarming for me because it's not my baseline. Maybe that's from taking Adderall for months, and maybe I'm in denial
Yes. That is exactly what it is, you've been taking Adderall for months and are absolutely in denial. What you describe is a textbook effect of amphetamine tolerance. Your thinking about this in the first sentence I bolded makes absolutely no sense.

I started reading this thread thinking yeah, maybe the meds have something to do with it, most likely tolerance but let's keep an open mind... since then, given every post since, I no longer have any doubt whatsoever.

I don't think I have anything else to add and you will do whatever you want to do of course, as is your right as a free human being, but I hope you can find a way to see the stark reality of what is happening here.
 
So far this morning has been better. I had 1g tyrosine mixed in with a protein shake and a smoothie each separately, so about 50-60g of protein and more than enough aminos to meet my daily needs. I took 3.75mg of Adderall about an hour after that, and this time there was noticeable improvement!

As mentioned previously, I had experienced an issue with my adderall causing depressive feelings after taking it for a brief period of time. This had always been the same length of time +/- a few minutes, and for 3.75mg it had been 45 minutes regardless of time of dose or supplements taken. Yesterday it was 47 minutes, 44 minutes the day before that... you get the picture. Today the depressive feelings still came on with my first dose, but they only lasted for ~20 minutes.

That was at 10:10 this morning. I took another 3.75mg at 11:50 to see if the same thing would happen, and this time there were no depressive feelings at all! My focus and attention are pretty alright, and my appetite is coming back today as well. I'm feeling thirsty more often again, and when my meds wear off, I feel more like my old self.

Either it's a transient effect from the tyrosine and protein I had this morning, or something I was taking in the evening was causing a negative interaction with my meds. I'm going to stop all tyrosine supplementation for the rest of the day to determine which it is. Fingers crossed!

Update: the 2nd dose actually did cause a mild mood drop for about 5-10 minutes, though its still improving so that's good news.
 
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Depression fixed! It was the magnesium glycinate.

I figured this out in two ways: first, by noticing my morning improvement after cutting out all the evening supplements. Magnesium glycinate was the only one of these that I had been taking consistently--never even missing a day--for the whole 2 months I had issues. I also looked back at the B-complex that made me feel overwhelmingly better yesterday, since I had noticed later on that the P5P and a newer B-complex I bought didn't have the same profoundly beneficial effects.

Turns out the old B-complex had two ingredients the new B-complex didn't: vitamin C and calcium. Seeing as I hadn't been feeling amazing from my evening vit C, process of elimination said it had to be the calcium in it causing those effects.

Apparently magnesium can cause depression for some people, and I'm one of the unlucky few. Only time can get excess magnesium out of your system entirely, but calcium intake can inhibit magnesium absorption in the meantime. I drank some milk to test my suspicion, and started feeling better within minutes. Went to the store and bought a low-dose calcium supplement after that, and I swear to God it felt like I was taking an anti-depressant XD.

Colors became brighter, details became richer, my mind starting filling with ideas and plans for the day, it was like all of me was waking up again! I wanted to do shit, I was looking forward to my day, the sun was warm... you get the picture.

My focus and attention aren't great--it feels like things go out of focus when I try to concentrate on them for more than a few seconds. I'm guessing it's an issue with Adderall tolerance; probably the numbness I was feeling these past few months made my worsening ADHD symptoms less apparent. Will have to go on a tolerance break still in that case, but that doesn't seem so daunting anymore.

Moral of the story: don't take supplements unless you're ABSOLUTELY sure you need them. I wasted 2 months of my life doing that; don't be dumb like me :doh:
 
Update: haven't taken anymore adderall or tyrosine since my last update. Mood got a bit worse a few hours after taking the calcium supplement, but it was still better than yesterday overall. I drank a few glasses of milk to fight this since I didn't want to go ham with calcium pills, and it helped raise my mood up a bit. All in all this evening is probably a shade better than yesterday, which is quite promising for having just 7.5mg of adderall and 0g of supplemental tyrosine all day. Also went for a run and cold shower. Got a few small tasks done which was encouraging.

Had some protein powder in the evening, since my appetite is still quite awful and its hard to get anything in but liquids. Still managed to eat a little bit of solid food though. Probably the tyrosine or adderall withdrawal is suppressing appetite, or maybe the magnesium is still having an effect? Feeling very tired so going to bed early now.

But tired beats depressed any day :D
 
Feeling pretty alright this morning. More tired and irritable, but my mood is much improved. Libido and appetite better, as well. I'm about to be 24 hours off the meds & tyrosine, so far it's not completely terrible. My perceptive awareness and memory aren't great, of course, but they're not much worse than I recall them being in the past 2 months.

I got an insane amount of sleep last night, about 12-13 hours in total. Sleep is getting a bit tougher though, and I'm having vivid dreams now. Probably an effect of the magnesium wearing off.

For those wondering if they're experiencing the same thing, here were all my symptoms:

(1) Persistent Depression - Lack of motivation or drive to do anything--almost nothing at all could fix this aside from Adderall (partially) & dopamine precursors until I had lowered my magnesium levels back down.

(2) Anhedonia - I did not feel emotions besides despair and existential dread. I didn't get anxious about deadlines and whatnot for my job, I didn't feel happy about my future, I didn't feel angry at perceived slights. It was all the same to me. I even remember trying a popsicle one time, and feeling almost nothing when I tasted it. It was like the joy and pleasure switches were off in my brain.

(3) Unusually low heart rate - I'm putting this down since my heart rate was just below the healthy average every time I checked it even when I was on a stimulant.

(4) Loss of appetite/thirst - I stopped feeling like I needed to eat or drink, foods either disgusted me or didn't interest me.

(5) Diarrhea - Pretty self-explanatory

(6) Loss of Libido - Borderline ED levels.

(7) Deep Sleep - I had long, deep, and dreamless sleep. I woke up feeling well-rested. This was the only major positive.

Changing the title since I've figured out what was causing me issues.
 
Still improving, though more gradually now than at first. Drinking milk every other hour to get my calcium up without needing supplements. Focus, attention, memory all worse but mood is still getting better. More time blindness, too.
 
Absolutely not.

Tyrosine is rate-limited, meaning it won't produce much more than your brain's natural amount of dopamine. That's why I went with it, along with the anticholinergic properties (had a bad reaction to fish oil & vit D a while back).

L-DOPA is pretty much straight dopamine which means no biological limitations. Any benefits I felt would be unsustainable and unhealthy.
I still have a whole bottle of L-DOPA. It did nothing to me. I'm thinking of just throughing it out. Unless there's some other use for it.
 
Update: had my first hyperfocus since May, after going for my afternoon run. Also, when I was showering I found the warmth of the water quite pleasant. Something I hadn't noticed before. Appetite is coming back today--I've eaten a couple things today without having to force them down. Mood is far better. Today's the first day where I didn't have any depressive low points during the whole day from beginning to end.

Well, knock on wood to that last part ;)
 
Almost back to my normal unmedicated self today. Food tastes good again. Might buy another form of magnesium (probably malate) and try it to confirm whether it was the magnesium or the glycinate causing problems.
 
Had some mild back pain today, decided to try 400mg a different variant of magnesium (citrate) to see if it would help.* Noticed improvement in a couple physical respects: reduced heat intolerance, reduced muscle tightness, reduced back pain. I also had some constipation the past few days which it resolved. The mental effects of this magnesium were fairly good; it blunts the "burnout" feeling I normally get when being off my meds, and hinders my cravings for short-term pleasures. My memory, mental hyperactivity, and attention span are a bit better now, or at the very least I'm not as painfully aware of deficiencies in those areas.

I'm going to try this form of magnesium for another day or two to see if it causes similar depressive issues. If so, then I will know that it was the magnesium and not the glycine that was the problem. If that's my issue, then the next step is tweaking the magnesium dose to maximize physical and mental benefits without causing depression.

*Although this appears to be a higher dose than my previous magnesium supplement, it is an effectively lower dose because magnesium glycinate is an extremely bioavailable form.
 
Huge success with the other forms of magnesium; back pain is cured and with none of the depressive side effects. It looks like the glycine was the culprit in the magnesium glycinate after all. I'm guessing glycine has some sort of powerful inhibitory effect on dopamine that caused my depression and neutralized the effectiveness of my adderall.

Currently using magnesium threonate with the best results; citrate and oxide were rather weak and had laxative effects.
 
More than halfway through my tolerance break now, and I've started noticing some very gradual issues with the magnesium threonate. It doesn't cause outright depression like glycinate, but my "want" levels are definitely down and I feel very tired when waking up. Gonna be a no to magnesium threonate for me, since I feel it would cause similar effects if I took it long-term like I had with gylcinate.

The magnesium malate I bought arrived yesterday and I tried some this morning--holy shit. No cramps, no soreness, my runs are now 2-3 miles longer and I still feel like I could've gone on for longer. It has a slight laxative effect, but at 100-200mg it's not an issue. Even better, it has no depressive or fatigue-related symptoms. I'm just as alert and awake on malate as normally, only now I feel way better physically.

The only issue is that magnesium could interfere with my meds when I go back on them, posing long-term compatibility issues. Malate is formed with malic acid at almost a 10:1 malic acid to magnesium ratio, and acids dilute my meds when taken around the same time. Since magnesium malate wouldn't work before bed, I could end up making my meds ineffective by taking malate long term.

I'm going to try and find another magnesium form that doesn't have any acids to avoid this risk*. Either elemental magnesium, or a non-acidic variant like magnesium chloride. The golden grail is a trifecta of (1) complete physical improvement, (2) no detrimental mental effects, and (3) no unpredictable side effects.

*or a magnesium with acids that doesn't hinder sleep, so it can be taken in the evening.
 
Heh, it's funny that since you did evidently decide to take a break this thread reads kinda like so many random reddit threads of someone in the throes of drug induced mania thinking they've found the solution to all life's problems. 😅 I guess it is pretty obvious what flavour of ADHD you have. I mean that kindly by the way, you're not incoherent or anything, and I appreciate the detail, most people don't bother keeping everyone updated on the aftermath of this kinda stuff. And good for you for taking a break.

That said, without meaning to shit on your bonfire I am now skeptical that the minor differences in formulation of magnesium and the mix of other vitamins you're taking, that you're attributing the fluctuations in your mood to, are actually having the impact you think they are. I think probably your fluctuations in mood and whatever other elements of your state of mind are just a pretty typical result of quitting a stimulant habit (even temporarily) as your brain wobbles (metaphorically speaking) between highs and lows in an effort to readjust to the absence of exogenous NT-releasers.

Not that these things are having no impact at all but supplements don't usually work like drugs do, where you can genuinely experience a change in mindstate within such a short time. Still, there's value in the process of experimentation since even if there is an element of placebogenesis or nocebogenesis and seeing a causal relation where there might not be one, it still scratches that itch of feeling like you need to take SOMETHING, and there's value in these kind of reports because obviously, there are going to be some patterns that will never be picked up on if no one bothers to write these kind of reports, so please do keep us updated.

Maybe I am just a bit jaded, I used to be very scientific about supplementation and hyper-aware of minor changes in mindstate and variations in endurance and suchlike, as you appear to be now, which in retrospect may or may not always have been attributable to whatever vitamin stack I was taking, rather than just to natural human fluctuations in mood from day to day... but at some point, I dunno, maybe I actually just took too many drugs for too long and burnt out my sensitivity to the subtleties of these things.

I don't know offhand the difference in neurological impact of all the different forms of magnesium you mentioned but your observation about glycine is not too far off. Glycine primarily stimulates serotonin release, which although there are many reports of people enjoying this effect, is actually kinda a mixed and variable bag of possible subjective impacts, some of which could easily be unpleasant. Higher doses I believe actually stimulate dopamine release too, but not to the same extent as serotonin, and there probably isn't enough glycine in magnesium glycinate for this effect to be relevant, and even if it is the serotoninergic effect will still overwhelm the comparatively minor impact on dopamine, especially so if you're coming off a long stretch of suppressing your natural dopamine production. So it certainly does make sense pharmacologically that you'd find magnesium glycinate to be depression-inducing. Maybe that fact kinda lends credence to the idea that I am indeed just jaded.

Gods, I need to take my own tolerance break soon and I'm not looking forward to it.
 
Heh, it's funny that since you did evidently decide to take a break this thread reads kinda like so many random reddit threads of someone in the throes of drug induced mania thinking they've found the solution to all life's problems. 😅 I guess it is pretty obvious what flavour of ADHD you have. I mean that kindly by the way, you're not incoherent or anything, and I appreciate the detail, most people don't bother keeping everyone updated on the aftermath of this kinda stuff. And good for you for taking a break.

That said, without meaning to shit on your bonfire I am now skeptical that the minor differences in formulation of magnesium and the mix of other vitamins you're taking, that you're attributing the fluctuations in your mood to, are actually having the impact you think they are. I think probably your fluctuations in mood and whatever other elements of your state of mind are just a pretty typical result of quitting a stimulant habit (even temporarily) as your brain wobbles (metaphorically speaking) between highs and lows in an effort to readjust to the absence of exogenous NT-releasers.

Not that these things are having no impact at all but supplements don't usually work like drugs do, where you can genuinely experience a change in mindstate within such a short time. Still, there's value in the process of experimentation since even if there is an element of placebogenesis or nocebogenesis and seeing a causal relation where there might not be one, it still scratches that itch of feeling like you need to take SOMETHING, and there's value in these kind of reports because obviously, there are going to be some patterns that will never be picked up on if no one bothers to write these kind of reports, so please do keep us updated.

Maybe I am just a bit jaded, I used to be very scientific about supplementation and hyper-aware of minor changes in mindstate and variations in endurance and suchlike, as you appear to be now, which in retrospect may or may not always have been attributable to whatever vitamin stack I was taking, rather than just to natural human fluctuations in mood from day to day... but at some point, I dunno, maybe I actually just took too many drugs for too long and burnt out my sensitivity to the subtleties of these things.

I don't know offhand the difference in neurological impact of all the different forms of magnesium you mentioned but your observation about glycine is not too far off. Glycine primarily stimulates serotonin release, which although there are many reports of people enjoying this effect, is actually kinda a mixed and variable bag of possible subjective impacts, some of which could easily be unpleasant. Higher doses I believe actually stimulate dopamine release too, but not to the same extent as serotonin, and there probably isn't enough glycine in magnesium glycinate for this effect to be relevant, and even if it is the serotoninergic effect will still overwhelm the comparatively minor impact on dopamine, especially so if you're coming off a long stretch of suppressing your natural dopamine production. So it certainly does make sense pharmacologically that you'd find magnesium glycinate to be depression-inducing. Maybe that fact kinda lends credence to the idea that I am indeed just jaded.

Gods, I need to take my own tolerance break soon and I'm not looking forward to it.
It's all good, in like 99.9% of cases where someone's posting shit like I was it would totally be a tolerance issue :p. Could still be, but either way I'll be fine since I'm going on 6 days of 0 adderall now.
 
Update: been sticking with magnesium malate with good results--funny enough I find it works best when washed down with milk. Maybe the magnesium and calcium together keeps either from being too overpowering.

Since starting the magnesium malate my sleep has worsened a bit, though that's more of a return to old form for me XD. Hopefully the magnesium chloride can work as a better substitute when it arrives.

I'll wrap this thread up tomorrow once my tolerance break is done since I'll have a lot of catching up to do ;)
 
Back on Adderall and doing great; so far 3.75mg is lasting about 2-3 hours instead of ~1. Can probably stick to a lower daily dose for the next few weeks. Noticing magnesium has been having mild demotivational effects regardless of the formulation, but I've been able to work around this by taking low doses and only doing so in the evenings. Then I drink some milk in the morning and feel better within a half-hour to an hour. Taking magnesium chloride right now since it has the least motivation-dulling effects of the lot, though it tastes like absolute shit XD.

It's weird that magnesium can throw me off mentally, since I know from experience that I do need it and get many physical benefits from taking it. Either way, taking it in the evening before bed seems like the ideal best-of-both-worlds solution. I don't need to be motivated or wired in when it's time for sleep, and my body can get the magnesium it needs overnight without causing any issues during the daytime.

If this ends up causing problems long-term, then I'll probably switch to topical magnesium. Anyways, that's all for this thread. Thanks for those who tuned in; this wasn't at all the ending I expected!

Magnesium tier-list just for shits and giggles:
TierMagnesium VariantsPositive EffectsNegative Effects
S
AMagnesium ChlorideImproved physical endurance, improved flexibility, reduced heat/light sensitivity.Poor taste.
BMagnesium MalateImproved physical endurance, improved flexibility, reduced heat/light sensitivity.Stomach discomfort, occasional acid reflux.
CMagnesium Citrate, Magnesium Aspartate, Magnesium OxideDiarrhea, Adderall efficacy reduced slightly.
DMagnesium ThreonateImproved sleep, reduced mental hyperactivity, improved physical endurance, improved flexibility, reduced heat/light sensitivity.Fatigue, brain fog, chills/coldness, Adderall efficacy reduced by around half.
FMagnesium GlycinateImproved sleep, reduced mental hyperactivity, improved physical endurance, improved flexibility, reduced heat/light sensitivity.Depression, anhedonia, reduced appetite and thirst, chills/coldness, Adderall efficacy reduced to near-zero.
 
That reminds me... I figured out why my hands were so shaky before. It was from my lithium. I think I have to switch back to depakote. I have to talk to my doctor about that.
 
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