ADD/ADHD and Drug Abuse

[Wizzle]

Thanks for your contribution Wizzle! Have you thought maybe you're depressed from being ADD/ADHD? Depression is a lot easier to notice within ones self compared to ADD/ADHD.

I agree with you though man, it is frustrating how you can do well in one area of college but not another. Don't get down on yourself man, if you get diagnosed, you should do better with treatment. Best of luck.

That might very well be, you've got some great insights. My mom told me I was really happy, gifted and open as a 3-4 year old, but this all went downhill when I started going to school. I have always hated school and had major problems at high school because I was always bored and didn't respect most of my teachers because I thought they were dumb (I didn't feel they could teach me anything). They suspect I might be highly gifted and the counselor told me gifted people often don't end up too well because they have a hard time fitting in in society. I can also really relate to what Winding Vines said.

Being gifted and bored is different from ADHD, but I'm quite convinced my depression is caused by whatever is causing my social dysfunction. I have truly fucked up everything I did after high school. I have peace with it now though, because I know I'm really working on it and not running away from my problems. Thanks for the support!

 

[Cane2theLeft]

I don't really agree with that, all my classes were more interesting and I did much better in all of them. Heroin gave me a lot of optimism, I'm normally a very pessimistic person. That's not depression but categorize it as you will.

Anhedonia is usually seen when you don't derive pleasure from things you normally would, so if things you may have found boring or more neutral in the past were more interesting as a result of your use then I wouldn't say it sounds like depression (or a symptom of that, anhedonia).

I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to label you or 'diagnose at a distance', after studying DSM criteria sets so much for my classes, certain phrasing stands out to me and I automatically connect it to the essential features of diagnoses of various conditions.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm 31 now and all these pieces are just now coming together.

Good post. Extremely relevant to my current situation. I totally feel like I need to be hyper stimulated in some way to feel alive, it makes sense that I've turned to drugs and music and other things that keep me always on the edge in some way, it's the only way I seem to be able to function.

Thanks Unsettled! Yeah, I'm in my 20's and this it now is just falling together piece by piece and I'm discovering a lot more about this within myself. Some people can go their whole lives because life will just fall in place for them, or they'll be extra resilient or extra-able to cope with the symptoms. It's OK you're just realizing this now, there's still help for you.

I also utilize drugs and music to keep me on point and it worked for a while but no longer.

What drugs were you using Unsettled?

CH DON'T get on amp type stims. I'm no Doc but You seem like a smart cookie by your posts and not disorganised, I did in 2004 by a top psych who bought up ADD/HD, and gave me 20mg of MPD, 6 years now and 6x the dose later

Scream - Thank you for the warning, but I know all too well how amphetamine can fuck one's brain and life up more than one would possibly know unless one gets to that point for themselves.

I still plan on acquiring amphetamine (legally) mostly due to the fact that it has helped me in the past, and I am responsible with amphetamine.

It's not a euphoric high for me, and at least for the d,l-amp combo Adderall, has plenty of negative side effects to keep me from abusing the medication.

I can hold onto multiple 30mg tablets of d,l-amp (Adderall IR) without a problem, and I often only take it (if I have some) once to three times in a week, depending on what's going on. I also take low doses (30mg is enough for four doses for me).

Thank you for the warning though, Scream.

That might very well be, you've got some great insights. My mom told me I was really happy, gifted and open as a 3-4 year old, but this all went downhill when I started going to school. I have always hated school and had major problems at high school because I was always bored and didn't respect most of my teachers because I thought they were dumb (I didn't feel they could teach me anything). They suspect I might be highly gifted and the counselor told me gifted people often don't end up too well because they have a hard time fitting in in society. I can also really relate to what Winding Vines said.

Being gifted and bored is different from ADHD, but I'm quite convinced my depression is caused by whatever is causing my social dysfunction. I have truly fucked up everything I did after high school. I have peace with it now though, because I know I'm really working on it and not running away from my problems. Thanks for the support!

ADHD can cause social dysfunction - but that's not the only thing that can. I don't want to speculate either, but there are many factors at play here. A professional will be able to help you out with figuring out what happened and what to do next.

Being gifted and bored is different from ADHD, but often ADHD people can be gifted. I think I'm a good example of the latter.

Either way thanks for your contribution.

Anhedonia is usually seen when you don't derive pleasure from things you normally would, so if things you may have found boring or more neutral in the past were more interesting as a result of your use then I wouldn't say it sounds like depression (or a symptom of that, anhedonia).

I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to label you or 'diagnose at a distance', after studying DSM criteria sets so much for my classes, certain phrasing stands out to me and I automatically connect it to the essential features of diagnoses of various conditions.

Oh no not at all Cane, I know you were just trying to be helpful. You have a very valid point, many people do end up using drugs as a means to relieve anhedonia/depression. I have witnessed this in many people.

I can tell you were just trying to bring up alternative explanations for a situation, and it may actually help others identify that they may not be ADD/ADHD, but instead depressed and/or suffering from anhedonia.

Your post does show how people can be over-diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, people may not be able to pay attention in school not because of ADHD but because of depression/anhedonia, and I think that diagnostic criteria should reflect the difference between this (if it doesn't already).

I really do appreciate the points you've brought up Cane, as many other mental disorders often coincide or can even be mistaken for ADD/ADHD, and this is a real problem that I know the medical community is working on.

 

[unsettled]

Captain Heroin,

for the last few years I've been using mostly Adderall, Alcohol and Xanax. Before that it was mainly Weed and Alcohol and whatever pills I could find, the pills were pretty infrequent except for a couple few month periods when I did a lot of Vicodin.

Right now, I just take 2mgs of Klonopin daily as prescribed and a few ground up poppies in grapefruit juice every morning. Occasionally I'll get a hold of some Ritalin or Dexedrine when I have a lot of work to do. Like last night I had a four hour jazz gig and me and the piano player got our hands on some Ritalin, he's one of the few musicians I play with who shares my fondness for prescription stimulants.

 

[BrahamCracker]

Ya people laugh when i say it's hard for me to study/do stuff with ADHD. They think it's no big deal but it is imo.

I do not medicate myself atm, which is prolly not smart because im unproductive and depressed. Everything is boring, even talking to people. My life is boring, and some people wonder why i feel that way because we throw parties. My ADHD also affects talking to girls. I can't get interested or I don't care about talking to them, I just want their clothes off.

I wish I didn't have this disorder. A lot of people think of me as weird and some of it is me, some of it is ADHD.

EDIT: I did not start smoking weed cuz of it I believe, but trying all other drugs is because of ADHD. My councelor told me flat out he wasn't surprised because students with ADHD are like 40 % more likely to try drugs or something. (dont quote me)

 

[lestahb]

I struggled in high school. Only graduated because I did very well on the end exams and they were worth enough of the grade to squeak me by.
I went to college straight out of high school and failed all but one course. I transferred to another college the next september and ended up with A's and B's. Took me so long to figure out the only difference was that the first school had two hour classes and the second had 50 minutes classes. I would want to pay attention, but then I would drift away. I look at my notes, and they go from neat to illegible to random doodles. But taking the shorter classes more frequently, I was able to concentrate.
Sadly, I fell into addiction, depression and after a crippling meth addiction, I got clean 5 years ago this September. My doctor suggested I get tested for ADD about 5 years ago, but I didn't want to because I suspected I would abuse any prescription given to me.
But after a promotion at work, and the copious amounts of paperwork that came with it, I realized that I was struggling again. I am on a low dose of concerta, which helps a lot. I have a theory that I may have been drawn to meth because of the benefit of it relieving some of the symptoms of ADD that I have, but I was addicted and abusing to fast to know for sure.
I am okay with using concerta, I sometimes split the pill in two and I realize that would count as abusing it, but I never run out of my prescription before months end, and it has not made me contemplate meth use again.
I wonder often if ADD meds during school would have helped achieve the grades I know that I was capable of, but I try not to dwell on the past, and hence forget the present.
Ramble.....

 

[WSB15]

My 2 cents-
I have ADD (inattentive type), but I don't think it played too much of a role in my drug abuse, although studies show that untreated ADDers are at higher risk for substance abuse. Depression and anhedonia definitely fueled my drug use though, so it was self-medication but not for ADD. FWIW, though, in the right doses opiates were probably about 60% as effective as amphetamines for relieving my ADD symptoms.

 

[morphonorconic]

Thanks for the contribution, this makes a lot of sense. Do you think you don't have ADD/ADHD, or do you think they started you on medicine too early?

Great thread! Lots of good posts.

No, I don't really categorize myself as someone who suffers from ADD. True, sometimes I find it hard to focus on something, but for the most part, I just get things done that need to be done. I try not to view certain things as negative and others as positive, although this is much easier said than done.

I forgot to mention that I was put on Ritilin before the Adderall; Ritilin did not have much effect, so I was switched to the Adderall. To be honest, and to answer your question, I think my parents were just trying to do what was best for me, and jumped on the ADD medication bandwagon, like so many other parents did when their children exhibited anything other than the desired level of productivity in school. The decision also was made under the guidance of a psychiatrist, take from that what you will.

I do feel that no one under the age of 16 or even 18 should be prescribed Amphetamine. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this one over the clinical and practical benefits this drug affords to some, but I feel it is simply wrong to give a still developing mind/brain/system stimulant drugs. It is also my opinion that many of these problems work themselves out over time, as in my situation.

 

[Wizzle]

@WSB15

Could it be you got depressed because of ADD? And in turn that caused your substance abuse? It's apparently pretty common for intelligent ADD-sufferers to experience guilt (cogntive dissonance) because they under perform.

This might be possible for myself also. I just got feedback on a preliminary ADHD(-PI) test that I took last week, and I scored pretty high on the ADHD-markers. I will be getting a full psych evaluation soon.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Great thread! Lots of good posts.

No, I don't really categorize myself as someone who suffers from ADD. True, sometimes I find it hard to focus on something, but for the most part, I just get things done that need to be done. I try not to view certain things as negative and others as positive, although this is much easier said than done.

I forgot to mention that I was put on Ritilin before the Adderall; Ritilin did not have much effect, so I was switched to the Adderall. To be honest, and to answer your question, I think my parents were just trying to do what was best for me, and jumped on the ADD medication bandwagon, like so many other parents did when their children exhibited anything other than the desired level of productivity in school. The decision also was made under the guidance of a psychiatrist, take from that what you will.

I do feel that no one under the age of 16 or even 18 should be prescribed Amphetamine. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this one over the clinical and practical benefits this drug affords to some, but I feel it is simply wrong to give a still developing mind/brain/system stimulant drugs. It is also my opinion that many of these problems work themselves out over time, as in my situation.

I concur!

I agree with the idea that many people under the age of 18 should be prescribed amphetamine, however some people actually do need it early in life to function. I think too many young children are over-diagnosed as ADD/ADHD and requiring medication.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My 2 cents-
I have ADD (inattentive type), but I don't think it played too much of a role in my drug abuse, although studies show that untreated ADDers are at higher risk for substance abuse. Depression and anhedonia definitely fueled my drug use though, so it was self-medication but not for ADD. FWIW, though, in the right doses opiates were probably about 60% as effective as amphetamines for relieving my ADD symptoms.

This post gives me a lot of hope.

I felt I could work around my ADHD symptoms on heroin, so if you say opiates can be 60% as effective as amphetamines for relieving ADHD symptoms, that's great news for me.

 

[Wizzle]

For me, opiates just put me in a stupor.. Maybe the dosages were too high or fentanyl is too sedating (supposed to be more sedating then heroin). I dunno, but oxy's gave the same effect. Definitely not a good thing for me.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

For me, opiates just put me in a stupor.. Maybe the dosages were too high or fentanyl is too sedating (supposed to be more sedating then heroin). I dunno, but oxy's gave the same effect. Definitely not a good thing for me.

When IV'd, heroin is very sedating and you nod a lot. If you use a high dose, you'll probably nod too.

However, at the right (recreational) dose, snorted, I would get tons of motivation and it would last for 8 hours. Very positive affect, etc.

This is why heroin was harder for me to quit, I did not need insane amounts, I could make any little bit of it stretch me if I had to so I could be functional.

However I finally got over using heroin.

Now that I'm diagnosed as ADHD, I'm going to get medication and I'll hopefully get results soon.

 

[RedRum OG]

yep. had some serious signs of ADD all my life. finally diagnosed age ~13. also have wicked anxiety. the two are very closely connected.

i started using nicotine to concentrate and opiates and weed for the anxiety .i hope thats where it will stay and i dont end up going through what you have Captain H

 

[Wizzle]

Hey RedRum, did you ever have a prescription stim for that? Did it make the anxiety worse?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

yep. had some serious signs of ADD all my life. finally diagnosed age ~13. also have wicked anxiety. the two are very closely connected.

i started using nicotine to concentrate and opiates and weed for the anxiety .i hope thats where it will stay and i dont end up going through what you have Captain H

Well I wish you the best of luck RedRum! I don't use nicotine/tobacco which is a huge plus for me (I was never big on alcohol or tobacco), and now a days I only use psychedelics and prescription drugs (that are RX'd to me). I don't use full agonist opiates anymore, which is a good plus.

I got to being 19 years old before ADHD was a problem for me, and I'm surprised I didn't see it in myself at least a year or two before, but I just now kind of saw all of this coming together.

Good luck RedRum! I have anxiety too and I'm trying to treat it as well as I can at the moment.

 

[Wizzle]

I'm 22 and it still has to be diagnosed.. It's very likely I have it though... When I look at my school history I probably also have (maybe had) Oppositional Defiant Disorder. In 8th and 9th grade I literally got booted out of class half the times I attended.

I don't like playing the blame game but I curse my fucking school for only punishing and never getting me evaluated by a psych. they did however send me to a lower level (we have four types of HS here, I went to the highest and got kicked back to the third) and made me go to city hall about my attendance (for getting kicked out, how fucked up is that).

So now, three years after high school, having started two different college educations and flunking both, then spiraling into more and more drug use I finally got to this point to actually do something about my problems. I realize it is also my own fault but these schools are so incompetent. fuckem!

 

[WSB15]

@WSB15

Could it be you got depressed because of ADD? And in turn that caused your substance abuse? It's apparently pretty common for intelligent ADD-sufferers to experience guilt (cogntive dissonance) because they under perform.

This might be possible for myself also. I just got feedback on a preliminary ADHD(-PI) test that I took last week, and I scored pretty high on the ADHD-markers. I will be getting a full psych evaluation soon.

I think I would have suffered from depression with or without the ADD (it runs in my family) but the ADD certainly didn't help. A lot of ADDers, especially the inattentive type have issues with depression, and there's no doubt that untreated ADD causes enough life problems to affect a person's emotional state. In middle and high school I could never concentrate at a normal level, so I usually didn't get the type of grades I could have. I have a high IQ, so my parents and teachers were always telling me that I just "wasn't applying myself" or was lazy, which definitely made me feel guilty because I did want to do well in school but could never concentrate. Once I got prescribed meds for ADD my senior year of high school I was finally able to make use of my intelligence and got a 4.0 that year, and later graduated college with honors.

 

[Wizzle]

I got the same crap about 'applying myself'. Basically the school I did do I did without any effort, while third level is still higher then average. I sure hope (if I do have add) meds and/or therapy will work as good as it did with you.

Do you get amphetamines? I read methylphenidate doesn't work too well on inattentive type.

 

[Gormur]

I went through a written test that dealt with problem solving and had an ECG done through the center for attention here. I was diagnosed ADD w/comorbid LD (dyslexia) through the psych who runs it and have been on vyvanse&adderall for a year now..

ADD for me is having uncontrollable thoughts (hyperactive brain) that come across as constant noise, can't focus on one thought or complete a task. you daydream, mind wanders, no sense of time.. if you tell me something, i may just hear gibberish

stimulants are a double-edged sword. they're the only thing that allow me to function decently.. well enough to write this, drive, follow directions, schedules, plan & complete tasks, solve basic problems.. but my anxiety & other mental issues are negatively affected and i think i'm kind of losing my grip on things..

i've been seeing a few psychs the past 3 years, so i've been through therapy, went through the MMPI testing: diagnosed with social anxiety, formal thought disorder, schizotypal and borderline personality. OCD was mild; not clinical level

i was diagnosed with dyslexia at 5 & went through developmental training to repattern areas of my brain. i started walking at 6mo old but had a poor sense of coordination..i walked into walls & wrote backwards till i was about 8

luckily i had extra help in school, even tho i wasn't there mentally, the teachers passed me. i never passed an assignment on my own. i was homeschooled in highschool, dropped out of university = 2 1/2 years of partying, 0courses completed

i think i come across fairly intelligent. i never had a problem with speech or spelling. i can't retain information.. i have to read a sentence by each word, then again to integrate the words into one cohesive thought.. then i read the next sentence but i already forgot the last sentence. trying to read this post would normally give me a headache & probably take me half an hour to finish

i'm not that bad off. i've never successfully been independent tho. i've had steady music gigs in the past, but this year has been dry.. i'm completely depedant on my family atm, which makes me feel pretty lame

i'm 26 & my life is passing me by again. the mental issues are kind of fucking me up at the moment

there's definitely a connection between drug use and AD(H)D. i mean, we're trying to cope. drugs slow down your mind to a normal level. weed still helps me, when i have it. of course getting high feels good, but it's not like i'm fucked up. my judgement is clear, my mood is level & i'm productive

without drugs i stay up for days to ease my mind, fast, binge, and act on impulse.. otherwise i wouldn't do anything at all cause i'm stuck in a thought loop. if i don't think about it, i can take action.. that includes spending sprees and other mindless stuff i end up regretting later

music is the one thing i've been successful with & makes sense to me.. sex, drugs, & rock n roll