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Acetic Anhydride

Rachamim, thanks for the links. I'm not familiar with any other method of manufacturing heroin, other than the AA method posted on opiod.com, etc.

Ok, so if I'm understanding everything correctly, just by skimming this thread(Haven't had a chance to read the articles yet, although I have downloaded them)
-DMAP is simply used as a catylst; to speed up manufacturing. AA is still necessary.
-DMM - Is this the same thing as DMAP? Or possibly a substitute for DMAP?
 
You can't get acetic anhydride from aspirin AFAIK, and certainly not from APAP despite it being used in the synthesis of both.
The classical textbook lab synthesis of acetic anhydride uses acetyl chloride, but this is just as watched and hard to get than the anhydride itself. And if you live in the US, I believe it is actually illegal to own those two chems due to them being list 1 precursors (Acetic anhydride is not just for heroin, but also in a certain step of methamphetamine synthesis).
The same goes for the chlorides of phosphorus which can be used to make acetyl chloride. Those are also nerve gas precursors.

There is a "madscience" way of making Acetic anhydride, that is, downscaling the industrial process for its production, but that is dangerous and a lot of work.
Google ketene process, third hit.
 
Secale, you are 100 percent wrong. Reverse engineering aspirin is old news. APAP though is not easily done and to be honest I have never heard of anyone doing it illicitly.

Phrozen: Yes, DMAP is a catalyst. It merely speeds acetylation and negates the need for heat. It is a room temp. rxn. that speeds up the rxn by about 8 X although in lab conditions they claim it can exceed 10X. It really is great. The safety margin is not perfect but for the rxn it is much safer that orthadox acetylation. the initials I used were Hebrew from Technikon when I was in university, sorry for the confusion.

Secale, acetyl choloride is simple to obtain in the US, and parts of Asia this I am sure. As for chloride, unless you were making a really huge amount of heroin why would you need to convert it to AA? You can use chloride itself just by adding 5 degrees C and 3 hours to the rxn. I am glad though that there is another person thinking here. Good post.
 
Rachamim: Can you clear up what causes tar's consistency?


The sources I've seen online all claim that it's caused by acetylating impure morphine, and even opium. I remember you saying that is just a misconception.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
I can see how you could make acetic acid out of aspirin, but acetic anhydride? It could be some weird pyrolysis method or something like that, but other than that I can not see how you would react an ester back to an anhydride.
If you do know a method for this, please dont hesitate to post it at e.g. Sciencemadness. There are a lot of home chemists that dont engage in illicit acts and have a definite need for acetic anhydride. It would be great news to the amateur scientist community.

With using acetyl chloride for acetylation of morphine, isnt there a danger of the byproduct HCl causing rearrangement to apomorphine? Apomorphine is obtained by boiling morphine with aqueous HCl and is completely devoid of opiate effects, being a potent emetic instead.
I dont know a lot about the chemistry of opiates, but I am always willing to learn.
 
Phrozen: Funny you just asked about tar, maybe you have a keystroke on me! Ha! Last night I redid the Wiki on Tar.

Anyway, simply look to Homebake for the process. Opium is not used. It is common sense, , besides having got to witness the synth and having also tried to acetylyse opium for experimental purposes. Also, look to Kompot for clues to the process.

They do skip one step but the key is the use of two other chems in the process.I will try to post more later on it, in depth for gen info but am still trying to kick this bug before heading out to Cambodia, etc.

See, opium at most has a 20% morphine count, yes? In Mexico it is rarely above 11%. Let us use the higher percentage though for argument's sake. If you take opium with a 20% morphine count, and even if you process it it will only have about a 30 to at most 40% count! How then do we see Tar with 80th percentiles in terms of overall diacetyl purity?!? In almost all cases, if it was simply acetylysed opium we would rarely see more than 10% pure Tar!

I feel bad about the opium thing because here at least I was the first to start that nonsense. That was maybe 5 plus years ago and then afterwards it spread all over and I have even seen it in 2 forensic papers. The papers though only give the general one line sentence, opium is acetylated.

Secale: You do not actually need AA although you could refine the GAA netted and synth it with a tweak, and it was done many times. GAA, which includes vinegar of course will perform the task with tweaking, just not efficient at all. However, in the Eastern Bloc folks made do. They had to settle for tiny lots and GAA was enough.

I am not sure on your site but will look at the site and of course hopefully be willing to post on it but I would think a site like that would not need the info, right? It was a first semester thing in Technikon.

Performed correctly there is no danger for neuterlisation of your target. It takes patience and attention but then, in 1975 Poland they sure had both,yes?
 
Ok. I'll look into the wiki as soon as I can.

If I remember correctly, kompot/homebake, is crudely extracted morphine(and other alkaloids) from already dried pods and stems. That is then acetylated and crudely filtered. That's just off the top of my head. I'll look it up and post back in greater detail, and ask any questions that arise.
 
phrozen said:
If I remember correctly, kompot/homebake, is crudely extracted morphine(and other alkaloids) from already dried pods and stems. That is then acetylated and crudely filtered.
Click to expand...


You're right as far as what I've read or been told. I thought homebake referred to New Zealander's who use various forms of morphine and add acetic anhydride directly to the spoon. I do know that procedure is called homebake, not sure if there are other preps with the same name though.

Awhile back, can't remember if it was here or somewhere else, someone from the Eastern Bloc posted about their experiences with Kompot. Does anyone else remember this or know what I'm talking about?
 
There's probably a million forms/ways of making homebake, hence the "home," but the main method I'm familiar with, and the one that makes the most sense in terms of availability and economics is heroin made with codeine extracted from pills such as nurofen and other OTC codeine/NSAID preparations.
It must be a bitch to separate that small amount of codeine from such relatively large amounts of APAP and other bullshit in those pills. But in the end, all things considered, especially in Australia where heroin is supposedly scarce/expensive, seems a worthwhile effort.
 
^
I don't know of any trip report on kompot. But, homebake is sort of an ambiguous term, as are a lot of other drug names. I've seen it applied to what was made in the Eastern Bloc and to what was/is made in New Zealand.

I do remember the Trip Report about New Zealand homebake. The guy even posted photos of it.
 
Joh & phroz - You guys are both right, "homebake" is pretty generic. The only reason I remember any of the details about the New Z version is that I was surprised to read about it both from a user's perspective as well as from either a forensic or sci journal. I don't remember which it was (forensic or sci - it was several years ago) - but they specifically talked about how morphine was fairly accessible in that country. Now that you mention the codeine, I do recall the article commenting on that conversion as well.

The user report(s) that I read (also a long, long time ago) were mostly focusing on MS Contin - this was before Avinza/Kadian etc.


Forgot one thing! Does anyone know if anhydride easier to get in NZ than the US or other places? I'm not asking where to get it, I've got my own.
 
Homebake is a generic term, yes, but from tech viewpoint as in forensics it refers to any diacetyl equiv netted via pryidine hcl. In Mexico, in the north, primarily Durango where Tar began, AA was not available. It IS used in procesing leather but they do not do that this much in that state or in Guerrero, my ex was from La Chona 8 hours out of Monterrey, and area that began producing Tar around 00. Not even there could they get AA. All relied, and probably still do on not seen it, nor had I pondered it with common sense.

Then, about 5 years ago I began to really think. It first happened when I went to visit my daughter . They produce it in under tarps out in the bush so that not seeing the actual process, I was able to discern the chems, no GAA at all. Upon going back to NYC I wwas really confused. I could not for the life of me understand the process. I did not actually see pyridine the 2 times I saw the set up but was able to find no GAA at all. GAA has a pickled odor as most know and simply by using my familiairty with chems I was able to dismiss its presence out of hand. Even without markings it is easy to detect.

So, in then looking into it I went back over all forensics I could find, and in doing so accidently reskimmed Homebake papers as well. If you look into Homebake you willfind the same, EXACT consistency with relative purity/ies. Although the best HB was Diconalproduced with a pink color, almost all was Tar.

I hate to take it on a personal level but it is better that I give a full explanation so that others can underswtand just why I changed my position on the issue after adamatly spreading that false idea.
(Edited for spelling)
 
Scratch, prydine is an intemediary, they still acetalyse but with very weak GAA although I could not for the life of me see any the two times I saw the set up. Tar is not morphine butdiacetyl so hence the GAA. Brown Mexican is #4 technically so of course they are using some GAA, just not efficiently.
 
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