Opioids Abuser/addict needs to understand more about their dose & risk

[Movemauser]

Hi

I could really do with some help understanding where I'm at with my abusive habit. I would really appreciate any info anyone with the correct experience could share. First I'll briefly describe my situation, then there are some questions. Thanks.

I was prescribed codeine about 7 months ago for muscoskeletal pain. Because I have an irresponsible attitude to drugs, I immediately started using big doses of Codeine for the high. I ended up tolerant, entered the world of drug-seeking and got myself onto Tramadol about five months ago. Cut a long story short, I'm now using codeine and tramadol together - normally once in the evening. Been doing this for about two weeks now. The high has become weaker as tolerance has increased and I now don't really rush, just feel a bit cruisy.

My questions are:
- Is my dose normal for someone like me, or is it ridiculously high? I now use 500mg-600mg Tramadol Hydrocloride plus 300mg-400mg Codeine Phosphate. (Please note, you don't need to fill me in on the risk of fits with Tramadol, I know all about this.)
- If I just stopped abruptly, how bad would withdrawal be? Enough to keep me off work? Living hell? Or just a bit uncomfortable?
- If I do a staged withdrawal, could I just cut out the codeine altogether, then wean using Tramadol? (Short on codeine now and don't want more in the house)
- If I wean like this, would two weeks be a suitable timeframe to go from 400mg to jumping off?

Thanks for reading, hope to hear from someones who know about this stuff.
Movemauser.

 

[Flaga121]

1. There will always be people with much higher, and much lower doses. There is no normal.

2. Different for everyone. It will be somewhere between distinct discomfort and misery. No cake walk, but I don't see it being complete hell.

3. A taper always works best when its with something other then your DOC. On the other hand Tramadol has high abuse potential as well. Jumping off the the lowest possible dose is advisable.

4. I might want 4 if your trying to keep working, but 2 could work.

 

[Movemauser]

Hey Flaga, thanks for replying. Sounds like good advice. Out of the 200-300 people who have viewed my post, you're the only one who's managed to try to help. I expect it's because I write nice. People think they' dealing with a toff or a snob. Oh well.

 

[BlueHues]

Check the OD directory in my signature for threads related to this...

Everyone's different when it comes to tolerance, dependence and withdrawal...You haven't quite completely buried yourself in a hole of opiate dependence yet, and compared to many people, your use is rather moderate.

You might have mild withdrawal symptoms lasting a few days, you may have next to nothing, nobody can give you a definite answer.

It seems as though you've at least become somewhat psychologically dependent, increasing your use, chasing the "opiate high"....It's pretty likely you'll suffer some degree of anxiety, restlessness and craving if you stop.

The first time stopping opiates, people generally bounce back fairly quickly, but it becomes more difficult each time, after you first cross the line into opiate dependence.

 

[Movemauser]

Thanks BlueHues, never found that with my pre-post googling. I'll be dipping back into that as things progress. Right, so with about 100 x 50mg trams left, I need to start weaning fairly soon. The problem I get when weaning is temptation. Suddenly you're in the position of being able to hit a high like before the tolerance! Well, guess that's where the willpower comes in. Now, where did I put that?!

Great to hear I probably haven't reached physical dependence yet. Makes the whole thing much less daunting.

Responses have doubled in the last hour, that's great! Thanks to both of you.

 

[Flaga121]

Kratom has worked wonders for my Bupe w/d. Its worth noting the active ingredient is a mu-opiod agonist so if the goal is being truly "clean" it should be used sparingly at most to treat any nasty withdrawal that may (or very well may not) come.

 

[RTrain]

MY opinion here is you are a rookie drug seeker. I mean tramadol and codeine? shit is weak, its OTC in many countries (at least the codeine, which is better for recreational purpose, in my opinion)

Hey Flaga, thanks for replying. Sounds like good advice. Out of the 200-300 people who have viewed my post, you're the only one who's managed to try to help. I expect it's because I write nice. People think they' dealing with a toff or a snob. Oh well.

No one thought you were a snob until you started assuming the lack of answers was from your superior writing style. Its is just common to have only a few replies for every 100 views, look at a lot of the threads, many more views than replies. Sometimes one takes off and turns into a monster, when that happens half the time they just turn into nonsense bickering that gets off the OP's topic.

***Just f'ing with you, btw, but in all seriousness.....

- Is my dose normal for someone like me, or is it ridiculously high? I now use 500mg-600mg Tramadol Hydrocloride plus 300mg-400mg Codeine Phosphate. (Please note, you don't need to fill me in on the risk of fits with Tramadol, I know all about this.)

This dose is hardly high, but still will cause some umpleasant withdrawals. codeine is 1/10 as strong as codeine (so 30-mg oxy) and tramadol is about 1/10th of morphine ( so 50-60 mg morphine). This is all assuming PO as ROA.

- If I just stopped abruptly, how bad would withdrawal be? Enough to keep me off work? Living hell? Or just a bit uncomfortable?

You could probably work, but you would rather take 2-3 days off if you stopped that habit cold turkey. If you wean down to a reasonable level then it will be like a mild flu, but you will be able to work through it.

- If I do a staged withdrawal, could I just cut out the codeine altogether, then wean using Tramadol? (Short on codeine now and don't want more in the house)

My suggestions is tapering the codeine first, then the tramadol.

- If I wean like this, would two weeks be a suitable timeframe to go from 400mg to jumping off?

yes, try dropping 25 mg a day. Then at 50 mg(day 12) drop 12.5 mg to 37.5, then drop 12.5 again so now at 25 mg(day 14), then again to 12.5 (you are at 12.5 mg now, should be an easy jump, its equavalent to 1.25 mg of morphine, which is nothing). This is a pretty rapid taper, but should not be bad for your situation.

For the codeine taper I would do it a bit quicker, since you will still be on the tramadol which'll help ease any discomfort. Make sure you are at 300 mg for a few days before starting the taper and then drop to 250 mg a day right away, stay there for 2 days, then to 175 for 2 days, 125 for 2 days, 100 for 1 day, 75 for 1 day, 50 for 1 day 25 for 1 days and done. You could go down to 12.5 mg on the codeine but at that point the dose is so small the w/d should be very manageable.

Just realize its not going to be pain-free. But the taper will disburse the suffering, which is better in most people
s siutations where they can't be completely a mess for a 4 or 5 day span.

 

[crzydiamond]

^^i agree with this, that's a do-able taper that works in the time frame the OP is looking at

OP--in my experience, if you are able to taper that would always be preferable to jumping off a higher dose and just stopping cold turkey. As you state, you still have some of both the tramadol and the codeine. So...I think that just stopping at the levels you are at now would be putting yourself through extra misery that you could easily avoid. The problem with a taper using your drug(s) of choice is that it's very hard to stop at taking that "amount which will alleviate some withdrawal and discomfort but stops short of feeling the GOOD feeling". As you stated, you have "an irresponsible attitude to drug taking" which all-in-all, is just a fancy way of saying you crave taking more and getting high

I have gone through cold turkey withdrawal; I have gone through tapered withdrawal. Many times and many opiates. If you can stick to a regimented taper like the one RTrain set out for you, do so. It's a lot less painful in the end.

On a comparative level, the doses you mention are not those of an extreme nature, and the drugs you are taking are the weakest of the opiates/opioids. So you are not looking at a laying in bed kicking your legs/covered in sweat and goosebumps/puking your guts out uncontrollably while trying not to shit on yourself type detox. Will there be withdrawal--most likely, yes.( I say most likely because, sometimes when you first start, you can use for months and not get that withdrawal. Depends on the person. ). Will it be horrible?--probably not to someone who has been thru a worse withdrawal, but to you it may feel horrible. It's a subjective thing.

Being you want to keep working, my advice is--taper. Stick strictly to it. Do the codeine taper first. Tramadol is the weaker opioid, but it also has a weird withdrawal syndrome due to the SSRI effects it has...you will do best to eliminate the other opiate first then slowly eliminate the tramadol

Hope that helps. You're actually at a pretty mild habit. Getting out now, before you get a bigger monkey on your back, is a good idea. Best of luck

 

[Movemauser]

Kratom has worked wonders for my Bupe w/d. Its worth noting the active ingredient is a mu-opiod agonist so if the goal is being truly "clean" it should be used sparingly at most to treat any nasty withdrawal that may (or very well may not) come.

Cool, thanks for that. Got some ready and waiting.

 

[Movemauser]

lol sorry about the toff-snob thing. Combination of being self-conscious that my writing style makes me sound a bit up myself, and happening to be in a shitty mood at the same time!

Very informative, thanks. I'm now out of codeine so no choice but Tram taper.