Abortion ?

[stu411]

I struggle with these questions. I am two sided on it for various reasons. Such as, if some low life rapes a woman, why should he be allowed to spread his seed? Why should he be allowed to spread his bad genes? At the same time, why is it the baby's fault?

I struggle with it because when you have the MORNING AFTER PILL....what excuse does any woman have to abort a child after even a week?

Why are people allowed to treat sex like it's just a thing to do and when they get pregnant, abort the baby? Make the baby pay for Mom and Dad's bad behavior? Wow, thanks Mom and Dad...

And then you have babies who are going to be born severely retarded. I for one would want my parents to abort me if I were to end up like that. But then again, you take away the childs choice to live....nothing we do seems fair. Nothing we do seems right. Like that woman who had a child that was born without a brain. Say what? WHY!?!? So as you can see, I am completely torn with the subject. Which is why I never say either way if it is okay or if it is not. I can't even make up my own mind more less push my opinion on somebody else.

Theres real emotion coming through here , with a undertone of poetry, your so close to a full expression of this circumstanced suppressed emotion, a little rearranging of reason and your gona shine through, If theres one thing I know, Theres nothing wrong with believing that were all here together. and theres Always another option,



Your post has synchronized with one of my real life actions. When I noticed you I was on my way here to post a Rhyme I wrote in Dedication of all the "Dead Babys" ( its good to just say it how it is, helps realization ,unwraping words will unwrap the thoughts)
I will post it here. it helped me express the Emotion , and I hold the main character quite close..



met jane and family ,, her poem is called "Dead Baby Girls"



They passed each other twice every day -- He'd tip his hat and she'd look away -
An endless cycle of Greet and ignore -- He'd had enough she couldn't take it no more

similar thoughts in both of there minds -- a quick high five they were both intertwined

All through the day they Fucked like rabbits -- another high five and back to old habits-

2 months went by without even a look -- then came her demand on his check book -
Look what youve done you despicable man -- you've come in ma snatch now im needing a scan

Dont worry dear theres tools in my garage --now open your legs this isnt a marriage

For long into the night he tugged and he pulled,--till a gush and woosh there lay in a pool
oh look hunny dear i think its a she -- pass me the tweezers we might as well see

forget the tweezers go get my phone-- im posting this now before she gets cold
hunny my dear lets call her jane -- so they named their first born as she lay there in pain -

Darn no option to list her as whole --but whats this here it says Sell your soul --
one simple click and the deal it was done -- teleportation to the feet of Satan --
your lifes they are mine for the deeds you commit --now crawl back in shame fall down to the pit-

And when the falling was finally over -- there eyes tryed to focus on some kind of ogre -
closer and closer a voice with it came --Don't call me an ogre just call me jane -
jane the giant fetus she took her revenge --her parents get used now for her story book ends--
So Guys and Girls dont let this be you -- dead baby girls make nightmares come true



writing this helped me a lot with expressing the emotion,i feel it now.. also I think you might be able to Introduce us all to Dead Baby Boy, hes not been born yet

janes got a song on page 1 , and her first words , surprisingly to myself have atleast 4 main different meanings. its pretty cool

 

[spacejunk]

Her name was Pauline, she lived in a tree

 

[stu411]

The farther she looked, The less she could see

 

[spacejunk]

Not a Sex Pistols fan i take it?

 

[stu411]

Did someone say Sex, Or did i mistake it





took me frigin ages to think of that

 

[socko]

You know the song about pauline, it's about a no body from Birmingham. She had an abortion. She was tied to a table in a factory and her baby died screaming.
And how about when you run about without precautions. You catch diseases and need an abortion.
[/QUOTEQuotes=stu411;13355793]The farther she looked, The less she could see[/QUOTE]

 

[apatheist]

I observe that the OP first assumed that I was male and then, when corrected, went on to assume that I was MtF transgender - assigned male at birth.

I'm genderqueer, assigned female at birth. My gender presentation is usually androgynous. I do have a uterus, and I have borne and nursed children.

It is a depressingly common pattern that this topic - the subject of how people with uteruses ought to use them - is raised and debated by those who do not possess the anatomy in question and will never have the experience of being at the mercy of their own reproductive capacity. Wanting to determine the course of one's own life is dismissed as selfishness. Potential lives are elevated above existing lives. Real health risks and complications are minimized. Adoption trauma is glossed over completely. Normal human sexual behavior is demonized. It's part and parcel of keeping women second-class citizens. I hate to break it to the "pro-life" crowd, but this cat won't be going back in the bag. Anyone with access to the internet can get a medication abortion, which is safe and indistinguishable from a miscarriage.

It's not the pro-choice side of the debate that's lacking in respect for life. I'm not sure what could be more respectful than carefully and thoughtfully choosing when and whether to become a parent. I'm not sure how it's more humane to let an unwanted child be born into a life of misery and deprivation than to expel a tiny embryo that's months away from being able to have an opinion on anything.

stu411, please stop messaging me. I am not interested in discussing this with you outside this thread. I will, however, be making a donation to Women on Waves in your name.

 

[Wraiven]

I am not pro life nor pro choice. I am pro not getting pregnant in the first place. Everything else after that is too much grey area for me to touch.

 

[stu411]

I am actually genuinely happy to so you come back,, And i think We probably should not Go head to Head on each others View points, certainly not tonight anyway. I think if were going to touch on the choice/life argument we should just declare our reasons for choosing, coming to think of it ,I know a lot of your reasons, things like, medical issues when you get pregnant, to people depending on you so 9 months of is not possible , to things like adoption homes full, You've got a million reasons really , with the medical isues being the most benefited of your choice

phew , you see i can rationally accept these are your views , and they can be expressed as you see fit, whenever you see fit, << And believe me , go check any of my posts, that's the first time ive said anything like that,,

Hmm this is turning into a slight self therapy, My new found expression of tolerance, is slightly un-nerving me, but its cool. because

When it comes down to it all our views are our own, and even if people have conflicting views, it will add to more perspectives, different view points off conversations,, hey see that, wait for it.. yeah so hanging out with others of apposing views can only be a good thing,

oh. Women of waves, sure , take one on me, yeah this is what im wanting to get into , The idea of faith, basically believing something that cant be proved, its a cool topic, I attempted to reach faith on a few topics.. Faith in God. never really got there.. Then Faith in after life.. im quite close to that,, not total faith.. but this ,, Pro-Life came along , and ive always had a good sence of killing to be wrong, i have hunted before ,but just when i was young, i gave it up cause i felt to bad the animals, anyway the pro-life came along ,, just a month or so ago,, and i stated getting closer to faith than other time ,, and then eventually reached what im thinking is absolute faith, , that im quite excited about,, so do you have Faith in anything that cant be proven,, the subject fascinates me

so there, thanks for coming back

 

[stu411]

I am not pro life nor pro choice. I am pro not getting pregnant in the first place. Everything else after that is too much grey area for me to touch.

oi.. you.. i replied to your first post go read it ^^ up there .. and tell me if im insane, or perfectly normal,,


And Actually im pretty sure your a closet pro-lifer , just no ones let you out yet

Also the very First post on this whole thread,, You have to go, check it, its simplified , im sure if you can understand and really feel it, your mind will be blowen

 

[stu411]

You know the song about pauline, it's about a no body from Birmingham. She had an abortion. She was tied to a table in a factory and her baby died screaming.
And how about when you run about without precautions. You catch diseases and need an abortion.
[/QUOTEQuotes=stu411;13355793]The farther she looked, The less she could see

[/QUOTE]


Omg. are you saying there are another 3 abortion songs.. can we have them here,? and is my farther she looked rhyme of a song,, cause i just made that up,, but, there's nothing new under the sun,, it the moon where all the new stuff happens, Abortion songssssss

 

[apatheist]

I am actually genuinely happy to so you come back,, And i think We probably should not Go head to Head on each others View points, certainly not tonight anyway. I think if were going to touch on the choice/life argument we should just declare our reasons for choosing, coming to think of it ,I know a lot of your reasons, things like, medical issues when you get pregnant, to people depending on you so 9 months of is not possible , to things like adoption homes full, You've got a million reasons really , with the medical isues being the most benefited of your choice

phew , you see i can rationally accept these are your views , and they can be expressed as you see fit, whenever you see fit, << And believe me , go check any of my posts, that's the first time ive said anything like that,,

It should not be much of a leap from this to understanding that anyone who seeks abortion care has valid reasons, whether they choose to share them or not.

so do you have Faith in anything that cant be proven

This is really a subject for a different thread, but no. I am a materialist.

 

[socko]

Both of these are about abortion. Here is Bodies by Sex Pistols. [video]https://youtu.be/yzFFtBsl5ps?t=101[/video]
And The Body by Public Image Ltd: [video]https://youtu.be/euJlbxPSNu0?t=14[/video]



Omg. are you saying there are another 3 abortion songs.. can we have them here,? and is my farther she looked rhyme of a song,, cause i just made that up,, but, there's nothing new under the sun,, it the moon where all the new stuff happens, Abortion songssssss[/QUOTE]

 

[stu411]

It should not be much of a leap from this to understanding that anyone who seeks abortion care has valid reasons, whether they choose to share them or not.

This is really a subject for a different thread, but no. I am a materialist.

Right were talking real easy,, marks , set Go, See that like me accepting that another person has valid reasons to have an abortion, has to mean that i have to believe, there is a valid reason to have an abortion, and i am looking for reasons,, and have had lots of reasons shown to me,, but im basing my believe on a incredibly simple Thought , which is conceptualized life should not be killed,,, the only way i could cave on that,, would be a mass loss gain argument,, like 1 fetuos must die to save. so many lifes,, even then i would have to contemplate the number

I can understand why people do it, but i would put it down to that there misinformed,,

so i would ask , how much emotion do you feel, for. lets say "our" up and coming , new sailor women abortion,,

now , take it easy

 

[stu411]

Both of these are about abortion. Here is Bodies by Sex Pistols. [video]https://youtu.be/yzFFtBsl5ps?t=101[/video]
And The Body by Public Image Ltd: [video]https://youtu.be/euJlbxPSNu0?t=14[/video]




Omg. are you saying there are another 3 abortion songs.. can we have them here,? and is my farther she looked rhyme of a song,, cause i just made that up,, but, there's nothing new under the sun,, it the moon where all the new stuff happens, Abortion songssssss

[/QUOTE]


super thanks,, were building a good case here,, 4 songs a poem, and some hard core opposition,, might need some type of art work,, hmm

 

[apatheist]

Right were talking real easy,, marks , set Go, See that like me accepting that another person has valid reasons to have an abortion, has to mean that i have to believe, there is a valid reason to have an abortion, and i am looking for reasons,, and have had lots of reasons shown to me,, but im basing my believe on a incredibly simple Thought , which is conceptualized life should not be killed,,, the only way i could cave on that,, would be a mass loss gain argument,, like 1 fetuos must die to save. so many lifes,, even then i would have to contemplate the number

I can understand why people do it, but i would put it down to that there misinformed,,

so i would ask , how much emotion do you feel, for. lets say "our" up and coming , new sailor women abortion,,

now , take it easy

I don't know what sailor women you're talking about.

I don't agree that there are no circumstances under which it's acceptable to end life. I think that self-defense, in particular, is justifiable, and removing an unwanted entity from one's body falls under self-defense. So no additional justification beyond "I don't want this inside me" is needed.

I do think that the more humane thing is a) to prevent abortion by making birth control as accessible as possible and b) to ensure that abortions are performed as early as practicable. Policies in much of Europe do work this way, and the net result is lower abortion rates. "TRAP" legislation in the US has the opposite effect.

 

[stu411]

I should of put a cap on conceptualized life, ive only got full faith in unborn life,,, maybe i should start trying to raise it to all human life,

women of the waves,, lol sailor women, I cant help thinking it would be like adopt a panda,, but its sponsor an abortion ,,

I can reach quite extreme reasoning on culling fully grown adult life, but, think its just fantasy, when it comes to i probably wouldnt push the button as it were.

Erratic mind set there , gone from kill no life to population extinction in 2 lines, kina..

are you any good at writing poems?

 

[apatheist]

It's easy to have faith in a potential, I guess? Life in the real world is messy.

I think Women on Waves are heroes.

I am not interested in contributing poetry to this thread. I don't think that appeals to emotion make for good arguments.

 

[stu411]

Good point, made me think, but its not potential im basing it on, cause if had to make a sudden choice to save a unborn or a born baby certainly i would come to the unborn , and they would both have potential, I think i got a bit more lets call it faith in the human race than you,

So were only getting a small part of you in this thread, , no materialism no poetry


Can you say you accept abortion unconditionally,

 

[stu411]

right im gona start getting stupid now

1. if you had a chance to perform an abortion would you do it,,
2. Would you like to see a website that almost looks like ebay but its all fetous part?
if you had to chose to kill an adult or a fetus, what would you choose?

i think there cool questions