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Aborigines

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^ so as an alternative, what do you propose lostpunk?

i'm not attacking your point of view or anything, because usually you have a decent opinion about things (even though i disagree the majority of the time), but how would you do things if you had the power?
 
I can't offer any great solutions but I think the key to the issue is actually consulting them as a community and establishing what they want, rather than just telling them what they want.

All the money the government throws their way to alleviate our guilt is not actually tackling any problems it's just giving people like Swifty a reason to feel superior. I'm not Aboriginal and I can't speak on their behalf.

The biggest issue is us of European ancestory accepting that there is a major problem and that we have caused it. The old excuse of "I didn't do anything personally to them" is a bullshit cop out. And as long as that attitude is overwhelmingly displayed conciliation and figuring out a way to coexist is still at square one.
 
I'm sure they have no idea what they want. Maybe to be left the hell alone?
 
Shut the fuck up THR.

Seriously, there are plenty of aboriginal voices trying to be heard.
 
The Fish said:
Shut the fuck up THR.

Seriously, there are plenty of aboriginal voices trying to be heard.

What the fuck? I'm being serious, not being a cunt. I'm simply saying maybe they don't want to be seen to be targeted all the time. Or as an "issue" to be constantly discussed in this negative way.

Jesus.
 
The speech below, on indigenous issues, was given by the then Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating, at Redfern Park in Sydney on 10 December 1992 (For non-Australians, Redfern is an inner city suburb of Sydney with an historically large Aboriginal population).

Australian Launch of the International Year for the World's Indigenous People

Ladies and gentlemen,

I am very pleased to be here today at the launch of Australia's celebration of the 1993 International Year of the World's Indigenous People.

It will be a year of great significance for Australia.

It comes at a time when we have committed ourselves to succeeding in the test which so far we have always failed.

Because, in truth, we cannot confidently say that we have succeeded as we would like to have succeeded if we have not managed to extend opportunity and care, dignity and hope to the indigenous pople of Australia - the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people.

This is a fundamental test of our social goals and our national will: our ability to say to ourselves and the rest of the world that Australia is a first rate social democracy, that we are what we should be - truly the land of the fair go and the better chance.

There is no more basic test of how seriously we mean these things.

It is a test of our self-knowledge. Of how well we know the land we live in. How well we know our history. How well we recognise the fact that, complex as our contemporary identity is, it cannot be separated from Aboriginal Australia. How well we know what Aboriginal Australians know about Australia.

Redfern is a good place to contemplate these things.

Just a mile or two from the place where the first European settlers landed, in too many ways it tells us that their failure to bring much more than devastation and demoralisation to Aboriginal Australia continues to be our failure.

More I think than most Australians recognise, the plight of Aboriginal Australians affects us all. In Redfern it might be tempting to think that the reality Aboriginal Australians face is somehow contained here, and that the rest of us are insulated from it. But of course, while all the dilemmas may exist here, they are far from contained. We know the same dilemmas and more are faced all over Australia.

This is perhaps the point of this Year of the World's Indigenous People: to bring the dispossessed out of the shadows, to recognise that they are part of us, and that we cannot give indigenous Australians up without giving up many of our own most deeply held values, much of our own identity - and our own humanity.

Nowhere in the world, I would venture, is the message more stark than in Australia.

We simply cannot sweep injustice aside. Even if our own conscience allowed us to, I am sure, that in due course, the world and the people of our region would not. There should be no mistake about this - our success in resolving these issues will have a significant bearing on our standing in the world.

However intractable the problems may seem, we cannot resign ourselves to failure - any more than we can hide behind the contemporary version of Social Darwinism which says that to reach back for the poor and dispossessed is to risk being dragged down.

That seems to me not only morally indefensible, but bad history.

We non-Aboriginal Australians should perhaps remind ourselves that Australia once reached out for us. Didn't Australia provide opportunity and care for the dispossessed Irish? The poor of Britain? The refugees from war and famine and persecution in the countries of Europe and Asia? Isn't it reasonable to say that if we can build a prosperous and remarkably harmonious multicultural society in Australia, surely we can find just solutions to the problems which beset the first Australians - the people to whom the most injustice has been done.

And, as I say, the starting point might be to recognise that the problem starts with us non-Aboriginal Australians.

It begins, I think, with the act of recognition. Recognition that it was we who did the dispossessing. We took the traditional lands and smashed the traditional way of life. We brought the disasters. The alcohol. We committed the murders. We took the children from their mothers. We practised discrimination and exclusion.

It was our ignorance and our prejudice. And our failure to imagine these things being done to us. With some noble exceptions, we failed to make the most basic human response and enter into their hearts and minds. We failed to ask - how would I feel if this were done to me?

As a consequence, we failed to see that what we were doing degraded all of us.

If we needed a reminder of this, we received it this year. The Report of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody showed with devastating clarity that the past lives on in inequality, racism and injustice in the prejudice and ignorance of non-Aboriginal Australians, and in the demoralisation and desperation, the fractured identity, of so many Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders.

For all this, I do not believe that the Report should fill us with guilt. Down the years, there has been no shortage of guilt, but it has not produced the responses we need. Guilt is not a very constructive emotion.

I think what we need to do is open our hearts a bit.

All of us.

Perhaps when we recognise what we have in common we will see the things which must be done - the practical things.

There is something of this in the creation of the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation. The council's mission is to forge a new partnership built on justice and equity and an appreciation of the heritage of Australia's indigenous people. In the abstract those terms are meaningles. We have to give meaning to 'justice' and 'equity' - and, as I have said several times this year, we will only give them meaning when we commit ourselves to achieving concrete results.

If we improve the living conditions in one town, they will improve in another. And another. If we raise the standard of health by 20 per cent one year, it will be raised more the next. if we open one door others will follow.

When we see improvement, when we see more dignity, more confidence, more happiness - we will know we are going to win. We need these practical building blocks of change.

The Mabo judgment should be seen as one of these. By doing away with the bizarre conceit that this continent had no owners prior to the settlement of Europeans, Mabo establishes a fundamental truth and lays the basis for justice. It will be much easier to work from that basis than has ever been the case in the past.

For this reason alone we should ignore the isolated outbreaks of hysteria and hostility of the past few months. Mabo is an historic decision - we can make it an historic turning point, the basis of a new relationship between indigenous and non-Aboriginal Australians.

The message should be that there is nothing to fear or to lose in the recognition of historical truth, or the extension of social justice, or the deepening of Australian social democracy to include indigenous Australians.

There is everything to gain.

Even the unhappy past speaks for this. Where Aboriginal Australians have been included in the life of Australia they have made remarkable contributions. Economic contributions, particularly in the pastoral and agricultural industry. They are there in the frontier and exploration history of Australia. They are there in the ways. In sport ot an extraordinary degree. In literature and art and mustic.

In all these things they have shaped our knowledge of this continent and of ourselves. They have shaped our identity. They are there in the Australian legend. We should never forget - they helped build this nation. And if we have a sense of justice, as well as common sense, we will forge a new partnership.

As I said, it might help us if we non-Aboriginal Australians imaigined ourselves dispossessed of land we have lived on for 50 000 years - and then imagined ouselves told that it had never been ours.

Imagine if ours was the oldest culture in the world and we were told that it was worthless. Imagine if we had resisted this settlement, suffered and died in the defence of our land, and then were told in history books that we had given up without a fight. Imagine if non-Aboriginal Australians had served their country in peace and war and were then ignored in history books. Imagine if our feats on sporting fields had inspired admiration and patriotism and yet did nothing to diminish prejudice. Imagine if our spiritual life was denied and ridiculed.

Imagine if we had suffed the injustice and then were blamed for it.

It seems to me that if we can imagine the injustice then we can imagine its opposite. And we can have justice.

I say that for two reasons: I say it because I believe that the great things about Australian social democracy reflect a fundamental belief in justice. And I say it because in so many other areas we have proved our capacity over the years to go on extending the realism of participating, oppotunity and care.

Just as Australian living in the relatively narrow and insular Australia of the 1960s imagined a culturally diverse, worldly and open Australia, and in a generation turned the idea into reality, so we can turn the goals of reconciliation into reality.

There are very good signs that the process has begun. The creation of the Reconciliation Council is evidence itself. The establishment of the ATSIC - the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission - is also evidence. The Council is the product of imagination and goodwill. ATSIC emerges from the vision of indigenous self-determination and self-management. The vision has already become the reality of almost 800 elected Aboriginal Regional Councillors and Commissioners determining priorities and developing their own programs.

All over Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are taking charge of their own lives. And assistance with the problems which chronically beset them is at last being made available in ways developed by the communities themselves. If these things offer hope, so does the fact that this generation of Australians is better informed about Aboriginal culture and ahievement, and about the injustice that has been done, than any generation before.

We are beginning to more generally appreciate the depth and the diversity of Aboriginal and Torrest Strait Islander cultures. From their music and art and dance we are beginning to recognise how much richer our national life and identity will be for the participation of Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders. We are beginning to learn what the indigenous people have known for many thousands of years - how to live with our physical environment.

Ever so gradually we are learning how to see Australia through Aboriginal eyes, beginning to recognise the wisdom contained in their epic story.

I think we are beginning to see how much we owe the indigenous Australians and how much we have lost by living so apart.

I said we non-indigenous Australians should try to imagine the Aboriginal view.

It can't be too hard. Someone imagined this event today, and it is now a marvellous reality and a great reason for hope.

There is one thing today we cannot imagine. We cannot imagine that the descendants of people whose genius and resilience maintained a culture here through 50 000 years or more, through cataclysmic changes to the climate and environment, and who then survived two centuries of dispossession and abuse, will be denied their place in the modern Australian nation.

We cannot imagine that.

We cannot imagine that we will fail.

And with the spirit that is here today i am confident that we won't.

I am confident that we will succeed in this decade.

Thank you.

Things sure looked brighter then. But over a decade of conservative rule will do that to a country.
 
I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

Guilty of being white

I'm a convict
Of a racist crime
I've only served
19 years of my time

Guilty of being white


Minor Threat - Guilty Of Being White
 
Holy shit!

How fucked is this society!

I was also feeling ill on the second page and skipped to this last one to see if things were any better, and thank fuck for lostpunk, fish, up all night, doppelganger and whoever tried to make sense in the between pages.

That Keating speech was excellent but depressing, since it's now been 13 years and nothing has improved; funny that Howard has been in government for most of those. I knew there were some racists in this country but no idea it was so widespread, no wonder the current government gets voted in so many times.

All you people making judgements on an entire race of people are incredibly fucking stupid and I'm stupid too for not realizing things were as bad as they are. You make me ashamed, really fucking ashamed and sick to be a white australian. It's as if you think it's ok to be as hateful as you are, what the fuck?

I live in Perth and have been asked for money or cigarettes by far more white people than aboriginals. I door knocked for a charity for a year and the aboriginal households I came across were consistantly kind and generous, unlike every other place where it was hit or miss whether you'd meet a decent white or asian person. It opened my eyes a fair bit. The few I've met asking for help actually needed it and I was lucky to be able to help without going out of my way. A lift, a couple of blankets, that kinda thing. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe it's because I treat people with the respect that I'd expect for myself, but I've only met good people and had positive experiences.
 
i grew up in a country town in nsw where the local aboriginals ripped off every house in the neighbourhood and caused a lot of shit in our school and we were all white shit ,then i moved to queensland where i got my head kicked in by a group of abos because i wouldnt give them a piece of pizza fucking brave bastards when there with they're cuzz's
 
THR! said:
^ I would say they have more 'opportunity' than anyone, as you have evidenced in your examples, ... it just so happens they're all so goddamn stupid/lazy/whatever to take them.

edit: racist comment deleted - samadhi

(Feeling so PC today.)


Holy shit, I can't believe I missed that.

Nazi.

Guess you hate fags too hey?

What about gooks?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OneTooManyMornings said:
Holy shit!

How fucked is this society!

I was also feeling ill on the second page and skipped to this last one to see if things were any better, and thank fuck for lostpunk, fish, up all night, doppelganger and whoever tried to make sense in the between pages.

That Keating speech was excellent but depressing, since it's now been 13 years and nothing has improved; funny that Howard has been in government for most of those. I knew there were some racists in this country but no idea it was so widespread, no wonder the current government gets voted in so many times.

All you people making judgements on an entire race of people are incredibly fucking stupid and I'm stupid too for not realizing things were as bad as they are. You make me ashamed, really fucking ashamed and sick to be a white australian. It's as if you think it's ok to be as hateful as you are, what the fuck?

I live in Perth and have been asked for money or cigarettes by far more white people than aboriginals. I door knocked for a charity for a year and the aboriginal households I came across were consistantly kind and generous, unlike every other place where it was hit or miss whether you'd meet a decent white or asian person. It opened my eyes a fair bit. The few I've met asking for help actually needed it and I was lucky to be able to help without going out of my way. A lift, a couple of blankets, that kinda thing. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe it's because I treat people with the respect that I'd expect for myself, but I've only met good people and had positive experiences.

I don't think it's fair to say that everyone who has had negative experiences with aborigines, with few or no positive ones, is stupid. You said it yourself - you've had positive experiences. So your opinion is shaped on those.

Now of course it's not necessarily right to form a view based on such little exposure but that is part of life. My own experiences have been nothing but bad... and I remain open to change.
 
rm2x said:
Holy shit, I can't believe I missed that.

Nazi.

Guess you hate fags too hey?

What about gooks?

You're using the words, not me :\

Which part are you taking offence to? The fact that I called them lazy, which by my experience they are, or ugly? I'm prepared to retract the ugly because... yeah, that ain't right, but the lazy/wasteful, no.
 
There are massive fuckheads in all societies and cultures. Just don't say they're all like that when they're not. Plenty of white people do the same things, they just don't stick out as much. It's the same as saying all white aussies are stupid racist bogans which isn't true. A lot are, but not all.
 
The monkey part mainly.

There are more lazy smelly ugly whites than there are aboriginals.
 
OneTooManyMornings said:
There are massive fuckheads in all societies and cultures. Just don't say they're all like that when they're not. Plenty of white people do the same things, they just don't stick out as much. It's the same as saying all white aussies are stupid racist bogans which isn't true. A lot are, but not all.

Nobody's disputing that... anyway, I think I'll take The Fish's advice, because I'm digging myself a nice wee hole here.
 
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