Aborigines

[swifty]

^ OK it's my fault that you have an opinion of "help those that help themselves" but refuse to acknowledge the points addressed (best by mary poppins) by many other posters within the thread !
If I treated you like shit for generations would you aspire to be like me ?
I am not saying "oh it's so easy" but the attitude of" help yourself or fuck off" is going nowhere!

so if you don't agree that people should take some responsibility for their lives then what. Exactly. Is. It. That. You. Are. Trying. To. Say?? That we should continue to ignore the social burden placed on australia by their inability to make something of themselves, despite the oppotunities that are available? That we should perhaps keep saying sorry for something that noboy alive today had anything to do with? That we should keep throwing money at them in the hope that one day, just one day they will forgive us for how nasty we've been all this time? That one night someone will hit the reset button on society and everyone will be nil all in the morning? That someone's going to jump out from behind a plastic palm tree and say "You've been punk'd" and it'll all just be a big practical joke that we can laugh about over a pint one afternoon?

What mate? what's the go here, seeing as how you seem to have a firm foothold on the moral high ground can you let us poor folks down here know what you can see from up there??

 

[college_dropout]

^ OK it's my fault that you have an opinion of "help those that help themselves" but refuse to acknowledge the points addressed (best by mary poppins) by many other posters within the thread !
If I treated you like shit for generations would you aspire to be like me ?
I am not saying "oh it's so easy" but the attitude of" help yourself or fuck off" is going nowhere!

Aspire to be like me???

Aboriginal tribes spent all their time hunting and providing shelter for their family/tribe. Kinda like what everyone is doing these days eh

 

[m4dd0g]

Heres some fun scenarios for the kids at home.

Encounter 1:
An aboriginal approaches you in the street to ask your for a something you feel irrational fear due to the difference from yourself. Being more advanced than an animal you may recognize the origins of this irrationality but even then its not easily discarded. You may even feel annoyed in self defense: "i dont deserved to be hassled". Either way, you're glad when the encounter is past.

Encounter 2:
You've got a bit of time to kill before your shift and you're waiting for a friend to rock up but he's late. A guy is walking up the street and as he passes you start to ask the time. Strolling more briskly past he's turned his head away not even looking you in the eye. He holds his hand palm out and mumbles something in a half angry tone like: "na sorry mate"

Now both of them angrily recount their experience to their friends.

This isnt even the tip of the iceburg (ive got a mental ocean full if you really want to drown in it)

People act like they are treated. It spirals ands feeds itself. Ultimately raw belief is passed down by nurture.
This is a much more powerful force than intellectually understanding how you should act

How do you fight it?
By calling out racists fucktards wherever you see it. It is a disease.

IF YOU JUDGE SOMEONE YOU DONT KNOW BY THEIR COLOR YOU ARE A RACIST FUCK!
Never ever think otherwise

 

[Samadhi]

IF YOU JUDGE SOMEONE YOU DONT KNOW BY THEIR COLOR YOU ARE A RACIST FUCK!
Never ever think otherwise

It's pretty simple really

 

[B9]

Aspire to be like me???

Aboriginal tribes spent all their time hunting and providing shelter for their family/tribe. Kinda like what everyone is doing these days eh

No ! Out of context quoting is fun I agree, but you know to what I refer!

Simply how could you want to be like some fucker whom you hated culturally ?

 

[B9]

]No ! Out of context quoting is fun I agree, but you know to what I refer!

Simply how could you want to be like some fucker whom you hated culturally ?]

Why don't you want to be like an aborigine then CD ?
Please enlighten us .

 

[tambourine-man]

Heheh... Aussies are some of the friendliest, most laid-back and engaging people on the planet.

But for fuck's sake... just don't mention the abo's to them!

A seemingly pleasant night can turn to shit over a single comment. I went for a few beers with a colleague in Sydney. Nice chap, very polite and very friendly. Perhaps not so far as gregarious, but definitely someone who had a 'sound' way of looking at things and someone who I felt was worth knowing.

The conversation touched on many things, many of which not lighthearted in nature: the rise of John Howard, the influence of one-nation politics, the lack of catholicism in public life, gay rights, the lack of any apparent rules or in Aussie Rules Football... all of which were taken in good nature and discussed thoughtfully and frankly.

As the conversation was turning towards the subject of sports, I decided against my better judgment (having read numerous accounts of why it's never a good idea to raise the issue of pre-1770 Australian history in polite conversation), to broach the issue of Aboriginal contributions to society by deftly feigning an inability to recall the name of the Aboriginal sprinter who had won Olympic gold at the 400 meters.

"Kathy Freeman" he said.

"Of course" I replied.

"Yep, Kathy's alright. Not like the rest of those fucking wogs" said my chaperone for the night.

"Oh, um..." I stammered, considering whether to mention that I'd always thought "wog" referred to Greek-Australians, but instead opting to look into the last quarter of my beer for some Houdini-like, conversational escape route.

"Yeah, fucking worthless bastards the lot of them." By this point I noticed that other people had begun to peer over their schooners and were casting their gaze towards us. Looking back, I can't quite figure out whether they were looks of disgust, or thinly-veiled sympathy. However, I am quite certain that they were offered in response to the comments about aborigines, rather than the similarly pejorative comments about John Howard.

"They're all the fucking same. Alcoholics, addicts..." The monologue went on for a few more minutes, the details of which I cannot accurately recall. Suffice to say that it amounted to a general argument of aborigines being a drain on Australian society and one that the whites shouldn't have to bear.

I thought about suggesting that such a "burden" seemed a small price to pay. After all, no doubt encouraged by my own obvious love affair with Australia, my chaperone had spent a significant proportion of his time eulogising the many qualities of his country: the vast land, the dreamlike topography, the large sums of money and wealth being created, the openness and freedom that his society provided. To me, it seemed that with so much achieved to detriment of others, and with so much still to be achieved in this rich and verdant country, affording the original inhabitants an ounce of respect (and financial help) would be the least one could do. To begrudge so little seemed so miserly. I thought about suggesting this, but cowardly decided that now might not be the best time.

I thank god I saw another side to Australia. Not as much as I'd liked to have seen, but enough to know that the firmly-held stereotypes are horribly skewed.

"Fancy another?" he said, observing my increasingly desperate searching of the near-empty schooner.

"No thanks, mate."

 

[up all night]

^ Awesome post.

 

[preacha]

thread of the year?
i vote yes

 

[maxload]

Aborigines have two problems.
There isn't enough of them around for the rest of the population to encounter them everyday, so by default their concerns are swept under the carpet because we have to take other peoples word for it ie " when I saw one last week he was drunk, smelly......".
And they have no role models to allow them to have some of that Australian, "Fuck we are great", self worth.

I worked for some time in an Aborigine community. Population, a few thousand. Number of employers, 3. Yabba-can-do taxi (one minibus), yabba-can-do supermarket (with a whole aisle of metho) and the pub. There was no other way to make a living apart from wealthfare. You grew up watching your family drink themselvess to death from sun up to, well sun up.

"Just leave the island and make a go for it, you have all thiss government support!", I hear from the whitebread, rednecks from the back row. Sure, they can catch the ferry to the closest city on the mainland, get a job and rent a place. Cool, just need some ID. Pity mum didn't fill in the birth certificate. Or I would have a drivers licence if there was a need to get one on an island that has one continues dirt road.

Nevermind, Ab Health will help me at least get a lease for a house. Previous address? Oh just that community off the mainland. Not too many white landlords too keen to rent a place to me despite all the cash I have to pay rent.

At least they have family who have come over a few years before. Just stay with them. Pity they are in the same boat and because of the pleasent year round weather, all camp in the park. Nevermind, just for a while until I get a job. My address? Place to have a shower? Clean clothes? Just a chaance to prove myself?

Fuckload of good all the government cash and handouts are now. Hell even feral white folks on benefits don't have time to find a job, they are too busy smashing up the city because of all the poor expolited folks around the world. Not too many bother to fight the police for their own countrymen's problems.

Nevermind, I hear that the physical characteristics of Aborigines are suited to both batting and bowling so the eternal search for an all rounder is closer to succeeding than first thought. If I was from the States I'd want to be like Mike or 50 cent, and have some sort of life plan. Instead I should look to, well I fucking don't have any role model to be proud of. I guess everyone must be right, I am really just a good for nothing.

If you think this is fantasy and no one wants to improve their lot in life, you are wrong. Or a racists.

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

^ that's a good post Maxload, you really made me think! :D Well articulated.

So what's the answer? The victim mentality is so ingrained and self-perpetuating (with help from society) that there is no way out?

 

[kryalkastleE]

Wow.
Ive been away for 2 days.

Hmmm.
Everything i wanted to say on this matter has been said, i think SLM said most of what i wanted to say in her last post. And if i come across as racist then people don't obviously know me very well. I don't think our race or any other is "superior".

I really feel so sorry for aboriginals. We have ripped them from a quiet society and introduced alcohol and drugs, which obviously a lot of people within their community don't know how to handle. I think it must be something genetic, something ingrained, that they feel so connected with the land, yet they have so many white peoples introductions (alcohol etc.) that they can't go back to who they used to be. It really sad that they are thrust so much opportunity, in schooling, money jobs etc. (and i am very defensive on this point, i know what we did was wrong all those years ago, but they are given SO MUCH opportunity and a lot of the time *not to say all* they piss it away - which again isnt their fault) and then a lot of the time, they don't even realise they have all this fanatstic opportunity right at their doorstep to become successful.

I don't think any other country in the world gives cash and so much opportunity to the people in which they took land from (i could be wrong on this point, but none that i KNOW OF) and if we are all so fucking high and mighty (as most people in this thread are) about being equal, and being one blah blah blah then why the fuck should they get all this extra opportunity that i never got? why am i different? Because i'm white? I think i feel prejudiced against.

I'm sorry, i really feel bad for what we did to them all those years ago, i really do, but actually meeting a lot of aborignal people in darwin i realised that something needs to be done. I don't know what, but whatever we are doing now isnt working.

Just a side note. Although you can never "generalise" a community by only a few of its members, the only people ive ever seen chroming for four hours a day and drinking metho are aboriginals. We need to do something.

 

[mindbodysOul]

Alot of people seem to think that just because the governments hands out money to the aboriginal community that they should be grateful for it, like we are doing them a favour "Thank god you guys came and saved us". Yes it is a step towards reconciliation but money is not going to solve the problem.

These kids need education, they need to grow up in an environment where they dont feel type casted, where they dont feel degraded and un-worthy by the rest of society. Alot of the schools which have a high population of aboriginal students are so poorly structured with minimal educational tools and resources. They have no where near the same opportunities as our city and suburban schools.

Think of private schools and all that they have access to that are taken for granted, libraries with full internet access, computer rooms, gyms, swimming pools, halls, good classrooms with air con and decent desks and chairs, canteens, school councils and extra curricular activity groups. Most of the children are more disciplined and make higher marks which allow them a better chance into university courses, there is also less truancy rates.

Then theres public schools, which most have pretty good resources, but no where near the amount of opportunity as the top end private schools. Teachers and parents feel it unfair as they rightfully think that all children in public schools deserve the same educational benefits as those in private schools. The kids public schools dont get as much discipline, there is a higher drop out rate and higher truancy levels. And they often dont get pushed enough to gain high marks allowing them into the best university courses.

Now think about a school with aboriginal people as the main students. They have minimal resources, minimal test books which are out of date anyway. They have no where near the amount of choice in year 11 and 12 subjects. Most of the kids are not disiplined and half dont even turn up. Theres probably only 1 or 2 who actually graduate year 12.

Life as an indigenous australian is such a huge struggle right from the beginning. As much as we throw money at them and expect it to fix things, the truth is that the opportunity for excelling just isnt there. These kids need to be educated in the same fashion as white australians and they simply are not getting that. They need role models to show that yes it can be done, you can change your life if you want it bad enough.

I cant imagine how hard life must be growing up in a minority. I am so lucky to be a white australian growing up in a family who always had enough money to feed me, cloth me, allow me to play sports, pay for my education, take us on family holidays overseas. Sometimes its easy to take all this for granted. I honestly cant imagine growing up in an environment where i was subjected to predudice looks and comments every single day of my life. I absolutely have no doubt that is what breeds so much anger and frustration in these communities.

Even within white australia where kids have grown up in broken homes and come from violent and abusing families these kids get alot more compassion and understanding then those that have come from the same background but are aboriginal. The white australians have opportunites at school for counselling, they have support from the teachers, from friends, from family. An aboriginal child may not ever get counselling and they may not ever learn how to deal with that pain. They may not learn a healthy output for their anger and instead they act out through violent or self destructive acts like so many people who are carrying the burden of victimisation.

These kids need understanding and compassion. They dont need another kick to the stomach of someone letting out little obscene vcomments about how worthless they are, or their race. If when you were growing up you were constantly looked down upon, not even through words or actions, but through a condescending glare or look (and believe me, kids pick up on everything) then ill bet you too would grow up with a hatred and mistrust towards the people who wronged you.

Ive probably side tracked a little here but when it comes down to it i feel that indigenous australians need to be better educated. Education is what opens you up to opportunity and creates a sense of accomplishment which betters self esteem.

What good is handing out money to these families when there is no groundwork being laid to develop strong structural family and social environments in their communities.

 

[kryalkastleE]

^^^^
fantastic post.
i really think education and acceptance is the key.

 

[zephyr]

mindbodysoul- bravo! Exactly what was going through my mind yesterday but was clouded by 1.5 bottles of a nice drop of red:D

 

[chugs]

I don't think any other country in the world gives cash and so much opportunity to the people in which they took land from (i could be wrong on this point, but none that i KNOW OF) and if we are all so fucking high and mighty (as most people in this thread are) about being equal, and being one blah blah blah then why the fuck should they get all this extra opportunity that i never got? why am i different? Because i'm white? I think i feel prejudiced against. .

We've given back diddly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut

The canadians gave an entire terrority to the Inuits. Also a huge amount of cash was provided to ensure the terrority could sustain itself.

Nevermind, I hear that the physical characteristics of Aborigines are suited to both batting and bowling so the eternal search for an all rounder is closer to succeeding than first thought. If I was from the States I'd want to be like Mike or 50 cent, and have some sort of life plan. Instead I should look to, well I fucking don't have any role model to be proud of. I guess everyone must be right, I am really just a good for nothing.

If you think this is fantasy and no one wants to improve their lot in life, you are wrong. Or a racists.

best post in this thread -

 

[kryalkastleE]

chugs - but do they give ongoing cash/opportunities etc?

 

[Mussoman_Beast]

Heres some fun scenarios for the kids at home.

Encounter 1:
An aboriginal approaches you in the street to ask your for a something you feel irrational fear due to the difference from yourself. Being more advanced than an animal you may recognize the origins of this irrationality but even then its not easily discarded. You may even feel annoyed in self defense: "i dont deserved to be hassled". Either way, you're glad when the encounter is past.

Encounter 2:
You've got a bit of time to kill before your shift and you're waiting for a friend to rock up but he's late. A guy is walking up the street and as he passes you start to ask the time. Strolling more briskly past he's turned his head away not even looking you in the eye. He holds his hand palm out and mumbles something in a half angry tone like: "na sorry mate"

Now both of them angrily recount their experience to their friends.

This isnt even the tip of the iceburg (ive got a mental ocean full if you really want to drown in it)

People act like they are treated. It spirals ands feeds itself. Ultimately raw belief is passed down by nurture.
This is a much more powerful force than intellectually understanding how you should act

How do you fight it?
By calling out racists fucktards wherever you see it. It is a disease.

IF YOU JUDGE SOMEONE YOU DONT KNOW BY THEIR COLOR YOU ARE A RACIST FUCK!
Never ever think otherwise

I found this post very interesting. And a very good way of demonstrating how people's behaviours are formed based on their interactions with others. As you said, 'people act like they are treated'.

But then, 'How do you fight it? By calling out racist fucktards wherever you see it'. There is a huge amount of negative energy in this statement, and directing this anger at a racist person is not going to cause them to change ther attitudes - treat them with negativity and it will only breed more negativity in them.

The only way to resolve situations like this is through understanding - understand why a person is racist in the first place (likely because of negative experiences which they have had), connect with them with compassion and empathy, and then truly effective steps can be taken to resolve conflicts.

'People act like they are treated' - Anger and a lack of understanding will only perpetuate themselves, and through these behaviours no real resolution will ever be found.

 

[Doppelganger]

m4ddog: There's a flaw in your post, and that's that nothing racist occured . Read it again!

 

[Charlie Brown]

Ten Monkeys - This is a well known experiment, hope you find it insightful

This group of ten monkeys are put inside a glass room. In the middle of the room, a single banana is left hanging, just within the reach of the monkey’s jump. The glass room has numerous inlets fitted with water jets. As soon as the monkeys are put inside the room, all of them see the banana hanging in the middle. Now, every time a monkey tries to jump from the floor and reach for the banana, the scientists open up high powered water jets through the inlet holes and splash them on all the monkeys. This happens every time one among those monkeys go for the banana. Over a period of days, each of the ten monkeys tries its hand on reaching for the banana, only to be welcomed by instantaneous water jets being splashed on all the monkeys, causing deep pain and anguish. After a couple of days, what the scientist observed was that, none of the monkeys went for the banana. Occasionally, one of them, tempted, would go for the banana, but then all other monkeys would jump on this monkey, beat it black and blue and stop it from reaching the banana, fearing the impending water jets, even when no water jets were being splashed on them. The scientist had successfully internalized the fear and the cause and effect system of monkey going for banana - triggering a water jet - leading to pain and anguish.

This went on for while and then the scientist replaced one old monkey with a new monkey from outside. This new monkey, as soon as it entered, saw the other monkeys and a banana hanging in the centre and to its surprise no monkey was trying to go and get it. Having thought for a while, unable for figure out the reason, it instinctively went for the banana, only to be pounded by the other monkeys, beaten and thrashed to the ground. The new monkey wondered why other old monkeys would do that, because after all it was going for a hanging banana, something a monkey always does naturally. It waits for sometime, and then tries again, and again, only to be faced with the same reaction from other monkeys. Finally, it too sits quiet under the banana, like others. And the point to be noted here was that the fear factor was internalized in the new monkey, without having been subjected to any water jet treatment.

Like this, the scientists replaced one monkey after another until all the ten old monkeys, who had faced the water jets were replaced by a completely new set of monkeys. The banana still hung in the centre even though all the original 10 monkeys had been replaced. Every time, a new monkey entered the room, it instinctively tried to go for the banana, only to be beaten black and blue by the others, until its natural instinct to jump for a banana was overcome and suppressed, atleast as long as it remained in the glassroom.

It was a simple experiment, but the results are a big revelation. The glassroom depicts a society and each new monkey, a new generation of life on this earth. The set of principles and situations at a particular point of time and for a particular set of people, are not the same over a period of time, but people’s reaction to such situations gets internalized and templated that others blindly follow or forced to blindly follow the rut, killing the natural human instincts of seeking knowledge and reasoning it by logic.