A very dark topic...Read at your own risk.

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Righty1776-
This new knowledge sucks doesn't it? Oh man how I wish there were an afterlife, but there isn't so oh fucking well.
mossman-
There are not two level of knowledge...Only one. The only one level is what you sense. Everything else was taught to you and it was at first made by a man who created it with his senses.
Oh and someone please tell me what's wrong with doing whippits in a pool? If it's about laying back...Simple! With all that air and nitrous in your lungs...You'll float!
Seriously though...One more thing for most of you who think along the lines..."What created atoms and molecular particles?" You know people who try to retrace every little thing back to God. Well have you people ever taken the time to wonder what the hell space is? No, not outer space...I mean space, as in the distance between the nucleus and electrons in an atom, for example? Well? What the hell is it?
This is the stuff humans and mankind haven't looked at and don't know anything about. So, stop thinking that we have traced everything back to the beginning. If the "life" were a house, humans would probably know how to make windows and doors. We are so far away from knowing everything.
 
I have always wondered this. ok if god is tha holy ghost then that means he was once alive. because to be a ghost u would have had to be alive at one time. so then who exactly is gods mom. and was his name always god because with a name like that i mean you have to know when you grow up there is only gonna be one thing you will be doing.
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"You mean we're smokin dog shit man??"
 
after i discovered camus and sartre i became unafraid of death.
now i accept the good and the bad, i take responsibility for my actions, and i see the sun and the sea as a metaphor for life.
i believe deep within that this is it, folks. make the best of it; live every day with passion and love.
 
Ay, thanx a fuckin' lot for starting this thread! It's not enough that I'm thanatophobic, right?
smile.gif
Jest kiddin'...not about the phobia part, tho. I try to rationalize it this way - If we don't worry about where we were before we were born, Why worry about where we're going after we die?
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Hey, are there any tobacco bits on my filter? I can't focus...
 
Shit I blink and this post explodes!!!
This is a no win situation - it always has been and always will be. Religion and whether God exists has always been a touchy subject - and the cause of many wars!!
In the end no-one is right and no-one is wrong. If someone believes in God then I say good on him/her as long as it does not effect me or anyone else not wanting to take part in that religion. If some-one wish's to be an athiest - then good on them too - but don't go around telling other people they are wrong.
Why must we always box people into catergorys, no matter what we do, man has always done it. Religion, race, colour, sex, social class, physical looks, clothing tastes, music tastes etc etc. We are always competing with each other - it's fucking sickening at times how man can be so low to other people. One of the biggest guilty parties in all this is religion - the struggle for supremecy over who's God is better. In many cases the idiots are fighting each other under the banner of the same God?
Look within yourself - it should be a personal and spiritual thing - if you believe in God, or you don't believe in God - then it's because it's from your heart, not because someone has given you scientific evidence to the contary.
I think I'll leave now cause I think I'm dribbling, or all that pot I smoked on the weekend is still effecting me
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly
 
I am God oh hold up Necro is God and he's just playing a trick on us so we'll reply to this damn message untill we die so keep replying to the God NecroTrance and then you'll really find out how many wip-it's you can do before you die and go to hell space!!!! What is hell is hell a place without senses? answer that one....
Just lay of the wip-it's and the rollin for a minute and take some time to listen to yourself someone made this damn place and it sure wasnt Ex so damit you better re-think your sound theory and listen to a real person someone who isnt doing wip-it's listen to yourself and then you can here yourself think about why am I even worrying about this stupid question If I don't believe in God then why would I even care about and after I would be worrying about the next place im going to do my wip-it's, maybe it'll be by a lake this time........
Without God there is noone Cause you are a God yourself because you have control over your life and everyone elseses you can take it or make it live so....just shutup about this stupid Afterlife crap and go to chruch...
you don't have to believe in God maybe they can help you with your obsessive compulsive disorder on wonder about Is there a God when your doing drugs that makes you feel that you are.........
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Don't Stop - - It's the Real Sound!!
 
There is OBVIOUSLY a higher being .. you can NOT seriously dispute that .. think about this, SOMEONE or SOMETHING had to make EVERYTHING .. SOMETHING or SOMEONE had to set everything in motion .. you can say man evolved from birds or fish or single cell orginisms - but what created those? You can believe in the "big bang" theory - but SOMETHING had to create the shit that went BANG ..
Click to expand...
-from pg. 1
I have to disagree with this. This argument simply can't be used because, going along the same lines...who/what then created the someone/something that supposedly created everything? Saying that this someone/something was just always there is the same thing as the claim that the big bang just happened out of thin air.
I happen to be atheist (~99%), and DO believe the big bang theory. There is a lot of support thrown around for both sides, but I find the 'higher being' arguments MUCH less convincing/truthful than the opposite. Anyone else interested in in-depth info and support, check out http://www.infidels.org and/or alt.atheism on usenet.
Kevin
 
I have to ask, why is this a very dark topic???

we have known for all of our existence that we ae one day going to die, we do not know how, or when until it happens (unless is is brought on by one).

But, no matter what message board i find myself reading, i always come across this topis, and there are the same arguments for and against god's existance, so to 'keep tradition' i will post what i post every time, well close to anyway.

I feel that god was merely created by man, so that people felt superior to eveything else that roamed the earth, and so they could over come fear of dieing and could feel that they knew the truth.

But, people say i am incorrect by giving me the bible for example- they say well, what about how it was found all those years ago, and all the story's fom different people fit together, etc etc
well, ever seen a book witten by someone from more than one point of view- (a great example is the longest memory by fred d'aguire(o something like that))

i mean, any fool can write a book and make it all fit together.
And, as for scientific theories, based on evidence, that in fact god did NOT create the earth, but it was formed through various other occurances- i do have to say some theories prove to be ridiculous (big bang???)

but some have been PROVED, take urey miller experiments.They proved that amino acids and things of lthe like can be created and in turn create more chemical components which react with conditions of the earth at the time to keep growing in this cycle, until the 1st single celled organism was fomed.

Now, i very strongly believe that scientific theories give the truth on how life was formed, it was just today i was sitting in my religion class at school, and we had to answer questions and one that got me was "how big a role does god play in your life"
unfortunately i was called by the teacher to read my answer, i had to answer honestly, i mean it is what i believe and woudl not go against that (btw, i am stuck at a catholic skool for reasons beyond my control) and so i say, god plays no role in my life, as i see that he is based on no truth at all. the look i got from 25 catholics was one never to forget, the teacher on the other hand seemed interested, adn asked why i felt like this, i simply stated that i do not need to see him as real, i do not fear death, and do not need to base my life on a story which, when thought about, could be just about as true as santa claus.

I had stated my point, and i felt good about finally being able to turn around and tell these people who blindly follow a book and the notion that there is a higher being, in the hopes that they will make it to a higher, happier place when they leave life, to finally tell them that what they believe seems very unbelievable to any person who can see a logic to things.

So, it is my opinion (very strong at that) that we were not created by a higher being, and that after we die, we ae dead- and gone hence the word DEAD.

I mean, god supposedly created man (adam and eve), but evolution my friends, is what it is all about we did not evolve from apes, no we share a common link as they do with their immediate anscestors, and those iwth theirs.

We can all be traced back to one basic chemical compound, carbon, so if god infact did create us, they mean to say
adam, the make carbon atom, and eve the female, but- hmmm
so, to sum up

GET USED TO THE FACT THAT ONCE YOU ARE DEAD YOU ARE GONE, I COULD SAY YOU WILL BE UPSET WHEN YOU SEE I AM IGHT, BUT YOU WILL ONLY KNOW THIS ONCE YOU ARE DEAD, AND THEREFORE CANNOT KNOW
SO WHY ALL THE WORRY

oh, and the bible was made by some corupt people agesw ago- they were all in it for the money....
no i have no proof
but, hey
they ty to tell us we were created by a higher being, that is not really anything
i mean
who has seen god
they cannot say he exists
sorry if i offended any christians here
but, frankly i am offended by having to be force fed this shit at skool.
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In a time of ancient gods, warlords and kings... a land in turmoil cried out fo a hero.... she was xena- a mighty princess forged in the heat of battle.
The power, the passion, the danger ..... her courage would change the world.
 
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Oh, i just read a bit more of the replys
plague
when we die, we do not go another dimesnion or whatever u are saying
heh
we are organic matter, we just beak down into- well not fertilizer, but crap
hehe
well, one thing i do know is that we are made up of carbon- we are living, everyliving thing is, and when we die, it breaks down from carbon 12 to carbon 14, or perhaps the other way round, but doesn't matter 4 now, carbon has a half life of a lot of time, dunno what it is, so we just break down, like those plants do that you see dead or diening
we are no different to a dead brid on the side of the road
so u think it is flying round in another dimension??
we only exist when are living, for obvious reasons, none of this reincarnation, or after life crap.
i stic to wat i sed, we were not created by any higher being, there is no higher being
altho i think it was stasis, i like your comments about well, you said alot
all this real psychological stuff evey1 says about higher beings being in people kinds and there not being any that exist as that
or whatever
i like that
like my theory on life, can link to the meaning of...
we do not actually exist, what is beyond space???
it si what i like to call the nothing, now i can't call it it nothing, as it is existing beyond space, so i call it THE nothing, meaning it exists only to be beyond space, but in actual fact the word nothing is used as it is not actually there, and neither are we or anything else that we think exsists
we are simply a thought in the mind of this nothing, the nothing that doesn't exist either, making us not exist only on a level of insanity created by the fact that there is and 4ever will be nothing.
THE nothing, which is something so we can be thought of, but only to be nothing as it does not really exist.
Do u know that feeling you get when you are outside at night alone (no, i'm not talking about the scrayness of dark), ya know when you feel as tho something is watching you- you feel as though there is some presence there watchiing your every move, the presence is just a few metres away in the dark that you cannot see at all in, but when you walk towards it (the dark) the presence continues to retreat, ????
know what i am talking about???
well, that is like how the nothing feels, like we are there but then when we go to look closer- nothing is there, absolutely nothing
ya know what i mean????
well, this isn't my view on life- seriously
me and my friend decided this on one of those philosophical phone convo's
heh
god that was good.
heh
well yeah
i think i have said all i want to say
BYE
wink.gif

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In a time of ancient gods, warlords and kings... a land in turmoil cried out fo a hero.... she was xena- a mighty princess forged in the heat of battle.
The power, the passion, the danger ..... her courage would change the world.
 
This topic is wandering off in all sorts of directions, so I'll try to address them all at once.
Hegel believed that your ideology determines your material condition.
Marx believed that your material condition determines your ideology.
Applying those notions to these issues, when it comes to belief systems, there are basically two types:
1. Hegelian, where you introspectively think about the world and metaphysics, then come to conclusions about the way the world is. Your ideas form your world.
2. Marxist, where you examine the outer world, and based on the facts and evidence you find, you form your belief sytem accordingly. The world forms your ideas.
I fall within #2, as I think it is clearly the most intellectually sound method of belief systtem formation. I think that an objective examination about the facts of the world necessarily leads to agnosticism, atheism, or at least a rejection of the major religions.
A few other things: www.infidels.org is a great site. The Big Bang is not ridiculous and essentially all credible scientists believe it.
Finally, the Big Bang does not require a god or intelligent being to set it in motion. The various theories as to what happened are much too complex for me to explain or understand, but read up on some modern cosmology and you'll see why.
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
Even if you do read up on modern cosmology you'll see that the great minds in this field like Stephen Hawking (read "A Brief History of Time") will say that they can prove the Big Bang Theory, however, what made/created the initial material to provide for the super dense, almost infinitely dense material, to cause the explosion is left to speculation. Hawking even alludes to the fact that there indeed might be a God.
And in response to a couple of replies regarding my theory of dimension-shift when we die, I (humbly) ask why this proposition could not exist. We have no way of comprehending the 4th and 5th dimensions. Who's to say that upon death we cease to exist in the 3rd dimension and don't exist on some other plane of existence, i.e. another dimension as we define it today. This may sound like complete science fiction, but Joules Vern was a great science fiction writer in his day, and behold many of the science fiction machines/ideas he had are today's reality. To add to my theory, stop and ponder for a moment…if a being could travel at will within the 4th and 5th dimensions would he/she/it not be considered a God to us mere 3rd dimension dwellers. If a being could travel to any point in time (past, present or future) or space (anywhere in the universe or as can be proven mathematically an alternate universe {anti-matter universe}) in the blink of an eye, would that not meet the definition of god….which is: supreme or ultimate reality; one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality; one who is omnipotent and omnipotent. I think that the ability to freely transverse the 4th and 5th dimensions would afford this definition of God.
Peace Out
[This message has been edited by Plague2040* (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
IF THE WORLD IS ROUND ADN NOT FLAT.WHY WOULD GOD WANT THAT? PLAY THAT PART IN THE MIND GAME WICH SETS IT FRAME BY FRAME.WHY ASK WHY............... JUST TASTE DEATH AND LIVE LIFE........{PUT YOUR SHADES ON AND I'LL DO THE REST}
 
Shut up Crisis...You can go to that fucked up church all you want...I know why you actually go(for the chicks).
I will never go to your church or believe in your God you fucked up Christian bastard!
Hehehehe....
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Give every police officer, judge, and government official in the US a bean...And X will be legal.
 
How come you want to diss me and my church hey there is girls there that look good maybe i am just going for the girls ha ha ha
Sorry God goodbye im just going for the girls yeah the girls the girls are my God....
 
Turbo Monk - Why don't you post something constructive and add to this intellectual discussion, instead of febble-mindedly calling it bullshit.
I saw what you posted before, but then you took it down, why? Something to the effect of "you can't prove science, so..."
Yeah, well, give me some proof that your little butt buddy Jesus was the son of god. Ha, what a laugh!
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
And yes, I see the hypocrisy of my pushing constructivity when I'm being so critical. But my criticism had justification behind it, as opposed to an unsupported slam.
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
It's pretty safe to say that Jesus is just a myth that was compiled using attributes of other godman myths that already existed. The Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in this widespread area, such as many of the world saviors and "sons of God," most or all of whom predate the Christian myth, and a number of whom were crucified or executed.
Here's a list of those gods:
Adad of Assyria
Adonis, Apollo, Heracles ("Hercules") and Zeus of Greece
Alcides of Thebes
Attis of Phrygia
Baal of Phoenicia
Bali of Afghanistan
Beddru of Japan
Buddha of India
Crite of Chaldea
Deva Tat of Siam
Hesus of the Druids
Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character
Indra of Tibet/India
Jao of Nepal
Krishna of India
Mikado of the Sintoos
Mithra of Persia
Odin of the Scandinavians
Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Salivahana of Bermuda
Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas)
Thor of the Gauls
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls36
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
Zoar of the Bonzes
To give you an example of similarities I'll use one of the above, Horus of Egypt:
The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar, with Horus even contributing the name of Jesus Christ. Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos ("I and my Father are one"). The legends of Horus go back thousands of years, and he shares the following in common with Jesus:
Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
He had 12 disciples.
He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
He walked on water.
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.
In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child" - and the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, who shares many qualities with Jesus and who existed as a deity long before the Jesus character was formalized. The Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier pagan mystery religions.
The reason why all these narratives are so similar, with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
For instance, many of the world's crucified godmen have their traditional birthday on December 25th ("Christmas"). This is because the ancients recognized that (from an earthcentric perspective) the sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, the ancients declared that "God's sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th. The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the "sun of God's" birthday on December 25th. The following are the characteristics of the "sun of God":
The sun "dies" for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."
The sun is the "Light of the World."
The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."
The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind."
The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.
The sun "walks on water", (they saw its reflection).
The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High"; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. I'm sure you've heard God referred to as "God Most High".
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
"The Christ of the gospels is in no sense an historical personage or a supreme model of humanity, a hero who strove, and suffered, and failed to save the world by his death. It is impossible to establish the existence of an historical character even as an impostor. For such an one the two witnesses, astronomical mythology and gnosticism, completely prove an alibi. The Christ is a popular lay-figure that never lived, and a lay-figure of Pagan origin; a lay-figure that was once the Ram and afterwards the Fish; a lay-figure that in human form was the portrait and image of a dozen different gods." - Gerald Massey
Still think Jesus is the undisputable truth?
If so then you need to ask yourself, "How much evidence would it take for me to question the validity of his existence? Exactly why do I believe this? Was it passed on to me by someone else? Have I been programmed to think this is truth? Do I believe it out of fear of being punished for not believing?"
By answering these questions you might just discover that you have been programmed with one of the greatest mind control schemes ever created.
[This message has been edited by Stasis (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
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