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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Stimulants A few questions about d,l-amphetamine

Lendy

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
39
I am a high purity street racetamic amphetamine user and I have a few questions that concern me

1. Why is the action of amphetamine divided into two stages? At the beginning of the action, euphoria prevails, which then gives way to stimulation in robot / zombie mode. Is this due to the fact that the half-life of levoamphetamine is longer, or for other reasons? Perhaps this is due to the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine? I also assume that this is a consequence of the body's reaction to the introduction of a substance - the absorption phase corresponds to the euphoria phase, with the onset of the elimination phase, euphoria is replaced by stimulation. But this is just a guess. Is there a biphasic trend with d-amphetamine? Is it possible to stretch the euphoria phase for the entire duration of the action? Perhaps nmda antagonists will help with this?
2. Why is intranasal use so different from oral? At an equivalent dosage, intranasal ROA appears to be harsher and more unnatural, less controllable, more forced stimulation without goal-directed motivation. While the high of euphoria at the beginning is really amazing, it fades too quickly and is replaced by a zombie mod with an over-obsession with every action, and due to a short peak, the compulsive re-dosing becomes uncontrollable. That's why I hate the intranasal way and prefer the oral way, which seems cleaner and much more voluminous, rather than artificial and superficial. However, with intranasal, I seem to have far fewer peripheral side effects.
I believe this may be due to the fact that levoamphetamine, when passing through first-pass metabolism, cannot effectively cross the blood-encephalic barrier, and when administered intranasally, this occurs due to absorption into the systemic circulation and through nose-to-brain delivery. Due to the latter mechanism, levoamphetamine effectively penetrates the brain, acting locally in it and contributing to mental hyperactivity and anxiety due to excessive release of norepinephrine. The more the substance enters the brain directly, the more mental neurosis and fewer peripheral side effects. This is an assumption based on a combination of theory and subjective feelings.
 
There seems to be a big difference between racemic and dextro-Amphetamine.

This showed especially when I extracted my dex-Amphetamine (ADHD) pills into a powder using 96% Ethanol and then evaporating it of. Snorting the resulting powder never even came close to snorting racemic speed. You would think it would be even better but it wasn't to my surprise.

Even oral they (dextro) seem like an very functional (read medical) stimulant in contrary to racemic snorted which is very powerfull and recreational. Also l-Amphetamine is an active stimulant on its own unlike l-Methamphetamine which in part could explain the differences between the two (d- and dl-).
 
There seems to be a big difference between racemic and dextro-Amphetamine.

This showed especially when I extracted my dex-Amphetamine (ADHD) pills into a powder using 96% Ethanol and then evaporating it of. Snorting the resulting powder never even came close to snorting racemic speed. You would think it would be even better but it wasn't to my surprise.

Even oral they (dextro) seem like an very functional (read medical) stimulant in contrary to racemic snorted which is very powerfull and recreational. Also l-Amphetamine is an active stimulant on its own unlike l-Methamphetamine which in part could explain the differences between the two (d- and dl-).
I don't really like snorting amphetamines. The rapid decline in the peak and the action itself is very different from oral administration. It feels like I don't belong to myself and constantly do strange things. And the effect is felt as sharp and dirty. It's like the amphetamine gets into the brain itself and controls it, lol. I especially can't control repetitive use and I constantly take too much.
This occurs at any dosage, just as with oral administration at any dosage of none of the above. For me, oral amphetamine is the "correct" variation and the "light" side of amphetamine, where its best qualities are on display. Intranasal is the opposite.

Regarding l-amphetamine, I would prefer the d-isomer. The two-phase excretion of the racemate is very annoying, because when the action of dextroamphetamine is over, l-amp is still present. Also bad for repeat dosing, because the ratio of levoamphetamine will progressively predominate over the right-hand isomer.
Perhaps I would prefer a racemate for vigorous activity. Unfortunately, I have nothing to choose from, underground chemists can only synthesize the racemate.
 
@Lendy that explains the annoying after stimulation resulting from dl-Amphetamine. be it oral or nasal, hated that part. Undirected useless energy that will keep you awake long after the good part has passed.

Never had that on d-Amphetamine, which I always took oral except that one extraction experiment. After dex I can sleep just fine. So the levo seems to play a big part in the less desireable effects.
 
I honestly still don’t trust that there’s some amount of caffeine in there. L-amp doesn’t really zombify you, caffeine does. This exact thing is talked about a lot with EU speed. EU speed is also almost all caffeine with a splash of racemic Amphetamine these days. Unless you happen to be some rare individual that has the one good connect, but I have my doubts.

-GC
 
*pacing some random plaza over and over for miles so I can avoid the rain mindlessly scrolling bluelight after a ton of caffeine* hmmm maybe it isnt my l amphetamine lol
 
I've only ever done 100% pure d-amph or adderall which is a semi-racemic mix of 75% d-amph and 25% l-amph

Honesty I prefer adderall. L-amph has a physical, relaxing component that d-amph lacks.

But I've never tried speed paste before, so I can't really compare.
 
Biphetamine 20mg (Black Beauties)
racemic amphetamine sulphate 10mg
dexro-amphetamine sulphate 10mg

75% d-amph
25% l-amph

Adderall is virtually identical to Biphetamine back in the 1950’s
Dexedrine 5mg IR & Dexedrine Spansule 5/10/15mg
Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) prodrug metabolizes into d-amphetamine
Desoxyn (d-Methamphetamine) 5mg tablets
Dexamyl / Desbutal (holy grails from the 1950’s)

Adderall is so successful because the 75% d-amph is significantly enhanced by the 25% l-amph increasing its duration of action, half-life, and ability to release monoamines and prevent it’s reuptake, MAOI properties, enhanced Dopaminergic properties / subjective positive effects

Adderall / Dexedrine / Vyvanse / Desoxyn / Ritalin & Focalin / Phenmetrazine ….all prominent dopaminergic stimulants with high abuse potential, capable of inducing profound euphoric subjective effects

Methedrine 20mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection
Diamorphine 30mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection ….BOTH loaded in a single 30gauge 1cc insulin syringe BOOM

Desoxyn 5mg tablets (d-desoxyephedrine) Methamphetamine HCL
Oxy-IR 5/10/20mg tablets (Oxycodone hcl) …..BOTH taken together in same oral cocktail
Valium / Diazepam 10mg tablets
Lyrica / Pregabalin 300mg capsule
Ethanol / Jin 3 oz cocktail

Example above of an amazing oral Brompton Cocktail
 
Biphetamine 20mg (Black Beauties)
racemic amphetamine sulphate 10mg
dexro-amphetamine sulphate 10mg

75% d-amph
25% l-amph

Adderall is virtually identical to Biphetamine back in the 1950’s
Dexedrine 5mg IR & Dexedrine Spansule 5/10/15mg
Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) prodrug metabolizes into d-amphetamine
Desoxyn (d-Methamphetamine) 5mg tablets
Dexamyl / Desbutal (holy grails from the 1950’s)

Adderall is so successful because the 75% d-amph is significantly enhanced by the 25% l-amph increasing its duration of action, half-life, and ability to release monoamines and prevent it’s reuptake, MAOI properties, enhanced Dopaminergic properties / subjective positive effects

Adderall / Dexedrine / Vyvanse / Desoxyn / Ritalin & Focalin / Phenmetrazine ….all prominent dopaminergic stimulants with high abuse potential, capable of inducing profound euphoric subjective effects

Methedrine 20mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection
Diamorphine 30mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection ….BOTH loaded in a single 30gauge 1cc insulin syringe BOOM

Desoxyn 5mg tablets (d-desoxyephedrine) Methamphetamine HCL
Oxy-IR 5/10/20mg tablets (Oxycodone hcl) …..BOTH taken together in same oral cocktail
Valium / Diazepam 10mg tablets
Lyrica / Pregabalin 300mg capsule
Ethanol / Jin 3 oz cocktail

Example above of an amazing oral Brompton Cocktail

I'm curious what makes you think the l-amph in Adderall "significantly increases" d-amph's duration, half-life, and potential ability to induce further catecholamine release and reuptake inhibition.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I have been trying to look into the reason for having 3:1 with 1 being l-amph in Adderall, and so far, I've only learned the following: Adderall was originally developed from Obetrol, which is mixed racemic amph and meth that was FDA-approved for its anorexic properties. Rexar Pharmaceuticals, the company that made Obetrol, was later bought by Richwood Pharmaceuticals, which then rebranded Obetrol as Adderall by excluding meth since amph and d-amphf were FDA-approved combinations as a single entity; that that was without FDA approval, it was only later Adderall got FDA-approval for ADHD. Therefore, the only reason l-amph exists in Adderall is that it's evolved from a weight-loss drug, not because there's something special about l-amph that makes d-amph do its job effectively (since l-amph is useful as an anorexic and thermogenic agent).

Can you link me to a reliable source that states otherwise? Or to the source where you came to this information in the first place? I'd be happy to correct myself if you do so.
 
I always thought they'd just include mixed enantiomers in Adderall for to get patent approved and make more $€¥. Interesting that l-amph should be psychoactive as well. My ADHD pills I got years ago were pure d-amph and worked well but had a pronounced rebound which locked me into the bed the day after if I didn't take my morning dose. Had to schedule an alarm and place the pills next to the bed lol. Is Adderall really better? Later after it was approved in my country I got Vyvanse which was OK but bit as good as the pure d-amph w/o time release. Less rebound though.
 
Biphetamine 20mg (Black Beauties)
racemic amphetamine sulphate 10mg
dexro-amphetamine sulphate 10mg

75% d-amph
25% l-amph

Adderall is virtually identical to Biphetamine back in the 1950’s
Dexedrine 5mg IR & Dexedrine Spansule 5/10/15mg
Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) prodrug metabolizes into d-amphetamine
Desoxyn (d-Methamphetamine) 5mg tablets
Dexamyl / Desbutal (holy grails from the 1950’s)

Adderall is so successful because the 75% d-amph is significantly enhanced by the 25% l-amph increasing its duration of action, half-life, and ability to release monoamines and prevent it’s reuptake, MAOI properties, enhanced Dopaminergic properties / subjective positive effects

Adderall / Dexedrine / Vyvanse / Desoxyn / Ritalin & Focalin / Phenmetrazine ….all prominent dopaminergic stimulants with high abuse potential, capable of inducing profound euphoric subjective effects

Methedrine 20mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection
Diamorphine 30mg glass ampoules IV/IM/SC injection ….BOTH loaded in a single 30gauge 1cc insulin syringe BOOM

Desoxyn 5mg tablets (d-desoxyephedrine) Methamphetamine HCL
Oxy-IR 5/10/20mg tablets (Oxycodone hcl) …..BOTH taken together in same oral cocktail
Valium / Diazepam 10mg tablets
Lyrica / Pregabalin 300mg capsule
Ethanol / Jin 3 oz cocktail

Example above of an amazing oral Brompton Cocktail
Interesting. I hadn't though about Biphetamine being the same as Adderal, but of course it is (was).

I got 100 Dexamyl once and hated it. I was a speed freak and hated the barb in it at the time. I actually almost lost my job when I first got them.
I had not looked them up yet and thought they were only speed. When a couple didn't get me going before work (due to the Amobarbital), I took more. When that didn't work, more. :)
I eventually passed out since I had a tolerance to the speed and not the barb.
I hadn't called into work. Said "fuck it" and took the weekend off. Luckily, it was a shitty restaurant job and I didn't get fired.

I gave away most of the Dexamyls. I wanted speed. I'd have prolly loved them later in life to party, though.
 
I'm curious what makes you think the l-amph in Adderall "significantly increases" d-amph's duration, half-life, and potential ability to induce further catecholamine release and reuptake inhibition.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I have been trying to look into the reason for having 3:1 with 1 being l-amph in Adderall, and so far, I've only learned the following: Adderall was originally developed from Obetrol, which is mixed racemic amph and meth that was FDA-approved for its anorexic properties. Rexar Pharmaceuticals, the company that made Obetrol, was later bought by Richwood Pharmaceuticals, which then rebranded Obetrol as Adderall by excluding meth since amph and d-amphf were FDA-approved combinations as a single entity; that that was without FDA approval, it was only later Adderall got FDA-approval for ADHD. Therefore, the only reason l-amph exists in Adderall is that it's evolved from a weight-loss drug, not because there's something special about l-amph that makes d-amph do its job effectively (since l-amph is useful as an anorexic and thermogenic agent).

Can you link me to a reliable source that states otherwise? Or to the source where you came to this information in the first place? I'd be happy to correct myself if you do so.
Um, yes I do….it’s called a legitimate medical journal outlining a professional double blind / placebo controlled medical experiment on many heathy human subjects.

Google it and do your own research….it’ll be there online.

Why do you think Biphetamine & Adderall are so successful? Sheer luck? By chance they just said, “hey, let’s make our amphetamine formulations 75% dextro and 25% levo isomer lol…..noooooo, they actually conducted various medical studies testing different formulations and Adderall / Biphetamine were the most effective formulations
 
Um, yes I do….it’s called a legitimate medical journal outlining a professional double blind / placebo controlled medical experiment on many heathy human subjects.

Google it and do your own research….it’ll be there online.

Why do you think Biphetamine & Adderall are so successful? Sheer luck? By chance they just said, “hey, let’s make our amphetamine formulations 75% dextro and 25% levo isomer lol…..noooooo, they actually conducted various medical studies testing different formulations and Adderall / Biphetamine were the most effective formulations
Why don't you instead just link me to study then?

I'm specifically asking about your claim that the enantiomer l-amph potentiates d-amph's half-life, duration, and catecholamine release; because l-amph doesn't act on CNS to tackle ADD symptoms.

We are talking about pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of the drug and those enantiomers here, not subjective experience or how people "feel" on one drug over another.

And stop tossing around medical study buzzwords like "double-blind placebo", which has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. If you cannot link the evidence to such an extraordinary claim then you're either full of shit or you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Enantiomer l-amph is a peripherally active isomer and its binding affinity is lesser than that of d-amph.



Nothing in these studies states l-amph "significantly enhances" d-amph's mechanism of action. If anything at all it has a slightly higher half-life, which is stated in the FDA-approval letter itself:


But staggering doses (instead of one large d-amph dose) dose will prevent the over-saturation of various membrane proteins involved in mediated transport of the drug but that doesn't mean "l-amph significantly enhances d-amph".
 
All my knowledge comes from genuine pharmaceutical medical journals. Period.

Nothing I ever say is anecdotal garbage I hear from someone or just make up….ever

Do your own research online …I’m busy and can’t track down the study to show you, my bad

100% there is a medical journal which has an in-depth study paper on this matter

You think it’s coincidental that all these pharmaceutical amphetamines specifically have 75% d-amph and 25% l-amph? Both Biphetamine in the 50’s and currently Adderall (identical formulations) have the same formulations

Genuine professional medical journals in the pharmaceutical industry backed by drug testing against controls, numerous medical journals probably funded or initiated by SmithKlineFrench & Shire Pharmaceuticals
 
All my knowledge comes from genuine pharmaceutical medical journals. Period.

Nothing I ever say is anecdotal garbage I hear from someone or just make up….ever

Do your own research online …I’m busy and can’t track down the study to show you, my bad

100% there is a medical journal which has an in-depth study paper on this matter

You think it’s coincidental that all these pharmaceutical amphetamines specifically have 75% d-amph and 25% l-amph? Both Biphetamine in the 50’s and currently Adderall (identical formulations) have the same formulations

Genuine professional medical journals in the pharmaceutical industry backed by drug testing against controls, numerous medical journals probably funded or initiated by SmithKlineFrench & Shire Pharmaceuticals
Dude, did you read my first message? Go back and read it again. The 3:1 ratio exists BECAUSE Adderall was developed FROM an already FDA-approved weight-loss drug. And they patented that 3:1 formulation and the parent company just removed methamphetamine from the patented formulation and REBRANDED it as Adderall and got it FDA-approved for ADHD.

You cannot link to any such studies because it DOES NOT EXIST so stop pretending you cannot find them because you're "busy". You could have just said "some people have better subjective experience with 3:1 racemic formulation than enantiomerically pure d-amph" and there would have been no issue. But you made a biochemical claim that l-amph "significantly enhances" d-amph. Stop spreading nonsense online if you don't have reliable sources to back it up and don't know what you're talking about.

I will leave it at that. Good luck.
 
You cannot link to any such studies because it DOES NOT EXIST so stop pretending you cannot find them because you're "busy". You could have just said "some people have better subjective experience with 3:1 racemic formulation than enantiomerically pure d-amph" and there would have been no issue. But you made a biochemical claim that l-amph "significantly enhances" d-amph. Stop spreading nonsense online if you don't have reliable sources to back it up and don't know what you're talking about.

I will leave it at that. Good luck.

You should do a little more research before shutting someone down so resolutely, and conclusively stating that such research doesn't exist. Because it does.

"Joyce et al. (2007) demonstrated that the dynamics of d-amphetamine on dopamine efflux were not altered by the presence of the l-isomer in the 1:1 ratio present in the racemate, but as the 3:1 d- to l-isomer mixture, l-amphetamine significantly enhanced and prolonged the efflux of dopamine in the rat striatum produced by d-amphetamine. The authors hypothesised that
l-amphetamine in MES-amphetamine modulates the activity of DAT so that the actions of the d-isomer are prolonged (Joyce et al., 2007)"



There may be also enzymatic explanations at work, other research exists as well.
 
You should do a little more research before shutting someone down so resolutely, and conclusively stating that such research doesn't exist. Because it does.

"Joyce et al. (2007) demonstrated that the dynamics of d-amphetamine on dopamine efflux were not altered by the presence of the l-isomer in the 1:1 ratio present in the racemate, but as the 3:1 d- to l-isomer mixture, l-amphetamine significantly enhanced and prolonged the efflux of dopamine in the rat striatum produced by d-amphetamine. The authors hypothesised that
l-amphetamine in MES-amphetamine modulates the activity of DAT so that the actions of the d-isomer are prolonged (Joyce et al., 2007)"



There may be also enzymatic explanations at work, other research exists as well.
I didn't shut anyone down. The burden to demonstrate evidence lies with the claimant. I explained my reason for having such a formulation on Adderall and provided evidence in my very first message, but he dismissed the question in a condescending manner. He also self-contradicted himself by first saying "some" study was conducted on humans through "double-blind / placebo-controlled" (subjective experience on humans without pharmacological explanation) but later he said "not anecdotal garbage".

Anyway, as far as the paper goes, it mentions the formulation as "serendipitously", which basically means by luck. That makes sense given l-amph has a higher half-life than d-amph, so although the enantiomer is less potent, my speculation is that it could "withhold" the effects that d-amph produced on dopaminergic neurons (at least conceptually speaking).
 
You should do a little more research before shutting someone down so resolutely, and conclusively stating that such research doesn't exist. Because it does.

"Joyce et al. (2007) demonstrated that the dynamics of d-amphetamine on dopamine efflux were not altered by the presence of the l-isomer in the 1:1 ratio present in the racemate, but as the 3:1 d- to l-isomer mixture, l-amphetamine significantly enhanced and prolonged the efflux of dopamine in the rat striatum produced by d-amphetamine. The authors hypothesised that
l-amphetamine in MES-amphetamine modulates the activity of DAT so that the actions of the d-isomer are prolonged (Joyce et al., 2007)"



There may be also enzymatic explanations at work, other research exists as well.
Thank you sir lol

….and btw RATS having a mammalian CNS just like ours sand any drug will have the same effects as ina dog, a chimpanzee and a human.

…..and yes, other research exists as well

Soooo…..to Ninjapirateroberts…..PISS OFF ya bloody wank’a
 
FWIW, I used to much prefer racemic.

Dexies always felt a little too 'clean' and lacking the 'bouncing off the walls' effect (which I loved).
 
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