7 OH strength and asking for advice

[blankboybastard777]

I’ma former heroin/fent addict whom is still opiate addicted and has been maintaining using poppy pods. I use opiates for self medicating purposes at this point mostly. There isn’t really a recreational aspect, except for feelings of relief and a really good energy boost in the mornings and once the day is done I can sleep if I haven’t resided in the last 4 hours with short acting opioids and 6 hours with longer acting ones. I’ve always had paradoxical reactions to opioids, weed, alcohol and antipsychotics. Opioids make me energetic, I’ve only nodded two to three times, never off of fent, ironically and only very early on in my usage. I’ve been stable on a little less than a pound a week with pods. no idea how much morphine that actually is.

I’m curious if 7 OH effects other people like this: very warm feeling in body, but it’s “light”, mood is just pure confidence, feeling outgoing like I desire to socialize strongly but can easily focus on anything. There is also a strange sensation with my thinking, almost as if I’m thinking more abstractly and to where I can visualize anything with my minds eye in very vivid details if I stop and try. Sounds seem distant and can be confusing if there is background noise, almost like being stoned. I feel too happy, happy to the point where it makes me anxious because I’m waiting for something bad to happen but nothing does. I want things to happen quickly, I want to take the energy/focus and apply it. If I have to wait I get irritated. I also notice less of a body load except in my head which feels heavy the rest of my body feels light as a feather. When it wears off I feel an intense desire to redose, I feel bored/empty, and my stomach seems unsettled.

Is this similar to most people’s effects from 7 oh?

It’s weird because it feels to me like tramadol, that’s the closest but far stronger.

Questions; 1) does 7 OH block other opiates and skyrocket tolerance to other opioids?
2) would it be a potential idea to alternate between pods and 7 OH?
3) does everyone find 7 OH to be kindve fiendish?
4) does 7 OH mix well with psychedelics?

So far the most effective way for someone like me to use 7 oh seems to be to use a sustained releases pill with a pseudo inox pill and 3-4 g of normal kratom. I seem to be able to get 7 hours of effects this way. How do the 7 OH withdrawals compare to fent or H? Has anyone switched from pods to these or vice versa? Just trying not to skyrocket my tolerance to pods. There is something about 7 that’s just so weird, it’s almost like it scratches it’s own itch apart from other classes of drugs, like the cravings are closest to meth cravings to be honest but I’ve never liked meth. I just did it socially and enough to where I wanted it but I think I didn’t want it because it made me feel “robotic” enough to not be interested. I can’t describe this drug well yet and maybe I shouldn’t try to and just enjoy it when I run out of pods.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey buddy. It sounds like you've had a lot of good luck maintaining with Poppy Pods. That's great if it's sustainable. The average Morphine content for Poppy Pods is notoriously difficult to nail down. If you have a reliable relationship with your distributor and feel a consistency with the product, you are a better judge of the general potency than any of us could ever be. Poppy Seeds and Pods contain enough Morphine to get the average person pretty intoxicated. I have to imagine a "large" dose of either could contain something like 10mg Morphine content but I'm talking out of my ass on that one.

Mitragynine in general seems to be a pretty moreish substance compared to other Opioids. This could be my opinion for a variety of factors. Kratom for instance, is a freely traded substance in most jurisdictions. Most drugs that are commonly used today are not spooned out of a bag and eaten in raw clumps or what have you. If you're making the dosage yourself out of this huge bag of powder, what's to stop you from throwing on just one more little pinch. I think those little pinches lead a lot of people to ruin. I don't know enough about Mitragynine to state how different it truly is from the Opioids more well-known to Western Medicine. It is likely that Mitragynine is not that much different at all.

I could spend a lot of time speaking to what we know regarding the potencies and relative potencies of the Mitragynine alkaloids but I feel that is a waste of time. There is too much variation in the content of alkaloids from different cultivars.

For what it's worth, I've always looked at Mitragynine or, "Kratom" as being comparable to Codeine, perhaps even a little more potent. I talk to a lot of Kratom users and addicts in my time here. I often get the same vibes as people who are experiencing a runaway Codeine habit. They speak more of the insanity that they are beginning to feel, the pull of the substance etc. though most are not unable to ultimately manage their day to day lives. Even having a serious Codeine habit can be difficult.

We know that 7-Hydroxymitragynine or 7OH colloquially is much less present in the Kratom though it is significantly more potent. If you ask me, it's probably comparable to messing around with a Morphine-level substance. The way I hear people getting hard-ons for this 7OH stuff, especially how "good" (loaded with Opioids) it is at handling their stress and pain is worrisome.

If I were you, I would stick to what you were doing with Pods. If you are ever taking Opioids and you hit that firm wall that tells you you're "just not feeling it anymore" the solution is almost never to take more, but to try to take less and endure a little bit of discomfort. You could be trading the pods that are working for something that could awaken a serious compulsion within you. I generally advise people not to get involved with this stuff at any level before giving them the full "talk" regarding Opioid dependence. I think 7OH is a fairly potent Opioid. If you mess with it, it could bite ya.

Edit: You should know that most people describe the effects of Mitragynine/Kratom to be of a more uplifting/energizing sort. If say, Morphine is on one one end of the spectrum, something like Mitragynine might be down on the other end. You know there are many potential reasons for this:

There are complexities to pharmacology that even the most studied junkie like myself would only be able to talk briefly about. For instance, you mentioned Tramadol specifically. Tramadol is also often quoted as "energizing". Tramadol also acts as an SNRI, that is, a Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor. For the sake of relevance here, SNRI's include the like of Venlafaxine (Effexor).

Also, there could be some interesting interplay between the peripheral Opioid receptors and the Mu receptor that we are yet to completely understand. The good thing is that Kratom has become so prevalent that even the larger research institutions are willing to spend money on research. We know more everyday.

7-Hydroxymitragynine can only be created if needed for sale. There is not enough of it within the plant to be commercially viable, whereas as Kratom powder could very well be a relatively organic, "natural" product. This product can be synthesized from scratch of course, though it is more likely to be created using organic Mitragynine as a starting point.

I have absolutely ZERO, I REPEAT ZERO ethical or moral faith in any company that chooses to deal in this 7OH stuff. Kratom provides the seller some plausible deniability in terms of their ethics. Those selling 7OH are knowingly capitalizing on an Opioid Epidemic and an anomalous legal vacuum. Who is to stop them from putting some other strange Opioid into these capsules? Who is to say they don't just poison you for two years before cashing out and buying a house in France before being prosecuted. You truly do not know and the ethics of these individuals are already clearly on display.

We are involved in Harm Reduction because we accept psychoactive substance use as inextricably linked to the human experience. We are not in the business of misery-promotion. We will always provide you with the safety information you need. Still, we do not like to see human beings circle the sewer drain of society before dying in anonymity and that is pretty much what Opioid addiction in America is like.

 

[bingey]

So as strong as oral morphine? How about the duration is that on par too?

 

[Keif' Richards]

This is coming from someone with some knowledge on the subject but not an expert on Kratom or its alkaloids by any stretch. We also are dealing with a complete inability to determine relative potency between different products. Basically, we are completely in the dark dude.

If you want this guy's very best guess, I'm going to tell you that this 70H stuff is probably a similar potency to oral Morphine though the duration of action seems to be shorter by ~25%. I've heard too many people say they need it several times a day to believe it could be a true stand-in for a Morphine/Heroin. You guys have no idea how regulating the concept of 3 meals/3 injections can be to the complete chaos of life as an Opioid addict. You do before work, then during lunch, then once you're done with a couple of extra shots for fun on a Friday night.

When you mess with that balance, those same breaks in time that every other human feels completely entitled too; those times are inviolable, it becomes a lot harder to hide the fact that you're addicted.

 

[blankboybastard777]

Hey buddy. It sounds like you've had a lot of good luck maintaining with Poppy Pods. That's great if it's sustainable. The average Morphine content for Poppy Pods is notoriously difficult to nail down. If you have a reliable relationship with your distributor and feel a consistency with the product, you are a better judge of the general potency than any of us could ever be. Poppy Seeds and Pods contain enough Morphine to get the average person pretty intoxicated. I have to imagine a "large" dose of either could contain something like 10mg Morphine content but I'm talking out of my ass on that one.

Mitragynine in general seems to be a pretty moreish substance compared to other Opioids. This could be my opinion for a variety of factors. Kratom for instance, is a freely traded substance in most jurisdictions. Most drugs that are commonly used today are not spooned out of a bag and eaten in raw clumps or what have you. If you're making the dosage yourself out of this huge bag of powder, what's to stop you from throwing on just one more little pinch. I think those little pinches lead a lot of people to ruin. I don't know enough about Mitragynine to state how different it truly is from the Opioids more well-known to Western Medicine. It is likely that Mitragynine is not that much different at all.

I could spend a lot of time speaking to what we know regarding the potencies and relative potencies of the Mitragynine alkaloids but I feel that is a waste of time. There is too much variation in the content of alkaloids from different cultivars.

For what it's worth, I've always looked at Mitragynine or, "Kratom" as being comparable to Codeine, perhaps even a little more potent. I talk to a lot of Kratom users and addicts in my time here. I often get the same vibes as people who are experiencing a runaway Codeine habit. They speak more of the insanity that they are beginning to feel, the pull of the substance etc. though most are not unable to ultimately manage their day to day lives. Even having a serious Codeine habit can be difficult.

We know that 7-Hydroxymitragynine or 7OH colloquially is much less present in the Kratom though it is significantly more potent. If you ask me, it's probably comparable to messing around with a Morphine-level substance. The way I hear people getting hard-ons for this 7OH stuff, especially how "good" (loaded with Opioids) it is at handling their stress and pain is worrisome.

If I were you, I would stick to what you were doing with Pods. If you are ever taking Opioids and you hit that firm wall that tells you you're "just not feeling it anymore" the solution is almost never to take more, but to try to take less and endure a little bit of discomfort. You could be trading the pods that are working for something that could awaken a serious compulsion within you. I generally advise people not to get involved with this stuff at any level before giving them the full "talk" regarding Opioid dependence. I think 7OH is a fairly potent Opioid. If you mess with it, it could bite ya.

Edit: You should know that most people describe the effects of Mitragynine/Kratom to be of a more uplifting/energizing sort. If say, Morphine is on one one end of the spectrum, something like Mitragynine might be down on the other end. You know there are many potential reasons for this:

There are complexities to pharmacology that even the most studied junkie like myself would only be able to talk briefly about. For instance, you mentioned Tramadol specifically. Tramadol is also often quoted as "energizing". Tramadol also acts as an SNRI, that is, a Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor. For the sake of relevance here, SNRI's include the like of Venlafaxine (Effexor).

Also, there could be some interesting interplay between the peripheral Opioid receptors and the Mu receptor that we are yet to completely understand. The good thing is that Kratom has become so prevalent that even the larger research institutions are willing to spend money on research. We know more everyday.

7-Hydroxymitragynine can only be created if needed for sale. There is not enough of it within the plant to be commercially viable, whereas as Kratom powder could very well be a relatively organic, "natural" product. This product can be synthesized from scratch of course, though it is more likely to be created using organic Mitragynine as a starting point.

I have absolutely ZERO, I REPEAT ZERO ethical or moral faith in any company that chooses to deal in this 7OH stuff. Kratom provides the seller some plausible deniability in terms of their ethics. Those selling 7OH are knowingly capitalizing on an Opioid Epidemic and an anomalous legal vacuum. Who is to stop them from putting some other strange Opioid into these capsules? Who is to say they don't just poison you for two years before cashing out and buying a house in France before being prosecuted. You truly do not know and the ethics of these individuals are already clearly on display.

We are involved in Harm Reduction because we accept psychoactive substance use as inextricably linked to the human experience. We are not in the business of misery-promotion. We will always provide you with the safety information you need. Still, we do not like to see human beings circle the sewer drain of society before dying in anonymity and that is pretty much what Opioid addiction in America is like.

Thank you for the very detailed response. I was able to restock on my pods and now that I have them, I’m more clear headed. Personally with what I was feeling from the 7OH, I think there was an interplay with the withdrawal that was making it so moreish. But it’s also telling me that 7 OH isn’t a weak substance by any stretch of the imagination and probably pretty destabilizing for an opioid addict. I don’t have the same impulse with Kratom for more. So I think I will probably take it easy on the 7 OH and just try it again on a holiday. Better the devil I know and being honest pods are fantastic for maintenance and helping me keep a normal life, similar to suboxone but I feel less harmful for my mental and physical health. And pods aren’t the same as heroin or fent, the long duration and oral use makes them much lesss recreational to me. I have a feeling 7OH also fucks with tolerance. Although the switch back wasn’t bad it did take a day for me to feel anything from the pods so I think they interfere with tolerance as well.

 

[blankboybastard777]

So as strong as oral morphine? How about the duration is that on par too?

I think 7 O) is stronger than morphine personally, just from what I felt. Duration is shorter too unless you get the extended release kind. Extended release I got 6hours or a strong high but you have to dose high enough. Duration is similar to morphine but if you get the “wrong” kind it’s like a smack to the head, you go up really fast but it only lasts for an hour or maybe two. There are residual effects but they aren’t desirable compared to the high. Lots of variables in duration and strength between brands. They are very similar to oxy imo in feel and duration, I found oxy to be quite variable to use also and had similar issues in getting consistent effects.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

Slightly off subject but just how far are they gonna go to give a "legal" that is just as addictive as H if not more from what I read. The tolerance build up and wd also being worse and so on. I'm glad I don't have the " need " anymore.

Best of luck to OP