5htp + b6 + ssri + meth?

[hh_sonic]

i have a couple of questions regarding 5-htp
(i've seen a fair bit of discussion on this in health q&a, unfortunately there is a bit of disagreement on the topic, i was hoping for some concrete/competent answers)

first, i know the effects of 5-hpt are cancelled out if taken with vitamin b6. if this indeed were the case, then what if 5-htp and b6 are not taken simultaneously, rather a vb in the morning, and a 5-htp at bedtime? does it matter?

also, i have heard 5-htp is contraindicated to ssri's (as well as claims to the opposite). just how imminent is the danger (i find it hard to believe that this is indeed the way to induce serotonin syndrome); and is 5-htp in combination with ssri's still unadvisable if ssri taken is a small dose, i.e. sertraline 25mg?

and, what happens if all of these are taken concurrently with methamphetamine, what would be the difference and how does it affect the picture?

thanks

 

[fairnymph]

I woudln't bother taking 5htp with meth anyway -- it won't substantially improve the high -- even if you could feel the serotonergic effects -- which you probably can't if you are on an SSRI.

 

[hh_sonic]

^^ i am not taking it with the purpose of improving my high.

why would you assume i am???

-- EDIT, fairnymph: is there a belief that something like that is practical? did i miss something?

 

[fairnymph]

I couldn't think of why else you would be taking it, sorry for the assumption! So why *are* you wanting to take 5htp?

 

[Dave]

Taking 5-HTP with B6 is a great way to fry your heart. I'd personally not take the risk and avoid one if one is supplementing with the other.

Also, while it might not kill you, I'd shy away from the 5-HTP-SSRI combo. Too many seratogenic agents at once make me a bit nrevous.

 

[hh_sonic]

I couldn't think of why else you would be taking it, sorry for the assumption! So why *are* you wanting to take 5htp?

it's ok
same reason why anybody who wants to increase serotonin production is... from what i understand, it's a good supplement to take while using stimulants (it is said to help insomnia and such). other than that, i only have a few more days worth of sertraline left, so i'm trying to make a transition...

Taking 5-HTP with B6 is a great way to fry your heart

care to back this up with anything?

Also, while it might not kill you, I'd shy away from the 5-HTP-SSRI combo.

thanks, i'll take that into consideration...8)

 

[kisps]

Before this experience, I had heard many positive stories/successes with 5-HTP, hardly any horror stories. I'd taken it a few times after rolling, with little or no success. The last (and final) time I took 5-HTP was during a meth comedown, it was a nightmare. I had been awake for about 48 hours when I decided to take 100mg 5-HTP in the hopes of some mental relief. After about an hour I started getting really disoriented and felt like I was going to lose consciousness. At one point I started seeing very strange orbs of light when I closed my eyes (very scary). I think I experienced the onset of serotonin syndrome; confusion, shivering, high body temperature. It was pretty scary and I considered calling the paramedics at one point, but I decided to just try and chill out and come back to reality. After a few hours I felt less fucked up and eventually went to sleep. I can't really say for sure whether that event triggered it, but ever since that experience my panic disorder/anxiety got progressively worse. My advice is to avoid 5-HTP entirely, especially if you're on SSRI's. I wouldn't even suggest taking 5-HTP in combination (or before/after) with any substance at all for that matter, but i'm just speaking from my personal experience with it.

 

[BilZ0r]

There is no evidence that B6 + 5-HTP will fry your heart, just that it is likely to increase the levels of free serotonin in the blood, which should be bad for you.

I wouldn't mix 5-HTP with SSRIs. I doubt it would help your treatment much (the serotonin boost in your brain caused by 5-HTP would pale in comparison to that of an SSRI). I doubt it would be very dangerous, but I can see no reason to risk it.

 

[Dave]

Sorry, that's what I meant. I was in a hurry and didn't want to elaborate. But yes, AFAIK free seratonin in the bloodstream can cause heart problems.

Another thread discussing heart problems following 5-htp & B6.

 

[hh_sonic]

^^i've seen that thread and some others as well... they just seem a bit inconclusive, from what i could tell...

unfortunately i'm not a chemist, so looking at more hardcore scientific data won't clear things up for me either, since i probably won't be able to tie it all together.

thanks for the responses anyway.

 

[fairnymph]

I wouldn't mix 5-HTP with SSRIs. I doubt it would help your treatment much (the serotonin boost in your brain caused by 5-HTP would pale in comparison to that of an SSRI). I doubt it would be very dangerous, but I can see no reason to risk it.

Exactly. There is simply no point in taking the 5-htp. As you are already on an SSRI, it will do more for your serotonin than the 5-htp anyway, and adding 5htp is pointless and potentially dangerous.

 

[nanobrain]

5-HTP w/SSRI's was the closest i ever came to acute serotonin syndrome.

this was many years ago, before much info was available, so was completely unexpected.

the wife wanted to call an ambulance as it appeared i was about to die in a horrible, hyperthermic, nauseated, delirious and altogether none too glorious fashion, amongst the beautiful surrounds of the Getty Art Museum in LA.

if you are on SSRI's especially on a course, do no mix w/5-HTP.

i'd also make sure as fuck there is no MAO inhibition happening w/your SSRI's / other regimen.

 

[BilZ0r]

^ Yes, he's compeltely right, and I was completely idiotic not to thing of it first. The MAOI actions of meth, with an SSRI and 5-HTP... it's a pretty bad idea....

Do you know what kinda does of 5-HTP you were taking nanobrain?

 

[nanobrain]

^here's the story. the day after arriving to the US after some months in Australia, i stocked up on my favorite nutritional supplements not available in OZ - Twinlab Ripped Fuel, Yohimbine and the newfangled 5-HTP i heard so many good things about.

Rippies + yohimine + alcohol used to be a favorite combo at uni, but i was not on SSRI's.

this time however, i was on 20mg paroxetine p/d and, stupidly, did not give a second thought to popping 2 Rippies (MaHuang Extract: 334mg Guarana Extract: 910mg L-Carnitine: 100mg Chromium: 200mcg), a tab of yohimbine - to impress the wife later, and 200mg of 5-HTP.

suffice to say, the monumental outdoor landscapes of the new Getty Museum almost became the place of my transition to the next plane...

P.S. getting off SSRI's was probably the best thing i have ever done for my mental / emotional / physical health. i'd rather have the hard ups and downs than the windless 23 degrees in zombieland.

 

[BilZ0r]

^ Yeah, that sounds like a pretty bad pro-monoamine mix.

 

[hh_sonic]

^^ ....sertraline is prescribed in conjunction with meth (with the purpose of increasing appetite)



the point about monoamine inhibition and ssri... if meth [indeed] acts on monoamine neurotransmitters, and ma oxidase helps catabolise serotonin; wouldn't a serotonin reuptake inhibitor be a good thing?

 

[BilZ0r]

^ Why would it be.