5-MeO-DMT
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Thanatos
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Is the 'fear' or incendence of mystical phenomena really that common with 5-MeO-DMT. I've vaped up to 100mg with less than spectacular results. I just seems like tripping with enhanced peripheral effects; ie sweaty palms, tremors, cloudy thinking, gastric disturbance?
I only found 5-MeO-DMT to be worthwhile when used at the peak of a high dose of DiPT, and any dose of MXE to a lesser extent.
I don't see any reason to take a benzo with it, the experience is so short that you'll likely be down before a sublingual benzo dose is even beginning to ramp up. Anyone use it as an additive to their pharmauasca brews?
I only found 5-MeO-DMT to be worthwhile when used at the peak of a high dose of DiPT, and any dose of MXE to a lesser extent.
I don't see any reason to take a benzo with it, the experience is so short that you'll likely be down before a sublingual benzo dose is even beginning to ramp up. Anyone use it as an additive to their pharmauasca brews?
AcidTrippin
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When it's things like this, or ayhua or ibogaine etc I think it's sometimes good to stop and consider what you are wanting out of the experience and how long you have been tripping etc. There is a difference between tripping for 15 years, hitting a crisis point or a stale point and possible seeking some form of positivity rather than just having had a few good RC/Acid trips over 3-4 years and then doing this provided you want to have a good experience. Please don't take that personally, as we don't know each other, but would advise the same to anyone when your starting to cross beyond smoked/vaped DMT territory (aka when things get a bit less recreational more spiritual). If your relatively young you got your whole life to work up to these opportunities and get the most out of them.
That said...you're curiosity is caught and if you're like me it's very hard to get away from that. Especially with this as it's not as long-lived as the ones I mentioned before. As people have said though, DMT should be fairly feasible, especially from what you've typed.
Morninggloryseed, apart from your own introductions have you read much more of similar experiences online/books? Just was really cool to hear this kind of thing, generally the likes of Shulgin etc seem to have a bash of this kind've thing, realize it's intensity and quickly step away.
Also Pagey, I don't want to go into it too much as it would just be my own perspective and think with tripping it's unique to yourself but would have second thoughts about the benzos - especially as I've seen others mention it. Benzos dumb psys down for me and take away from the more 'enlightening' (choice of word?) side of things and that's what 5-meo is all about, it's gonah throw you headfirst into it. Think it would be better for a person to try and address their benzo problem before venturing into ++++ / ticking another off the list but respect that I don't know anything about you or your fiance... for most I know in your position acid sex is more than enough
Majority people I've met who've used this chem, including those who've had more than a single trip on this stuff I notice the pattern that 5-MEO-DMT tends not to be for them - mgs is actually the first real one I can recall to hand.
That said...you're curiosity is caught and if you're like me it's very hard to get away from that. Especially with this as it's not as long-lived as the ones I mentioned before. As people have said though, DMT should be fairly feasible, especially from what you've typed.
Morninggloryseed, apart from your own introductions have you read much more of similar experiences online/books? Just was really cool to hear this kind of thing, generally the likes of Shulgin etc seem to have a bash of this kind've thing, realize it's intensity and quickly step away.
Also Pagey, I don't want to go into it too much as it would just be my own perspective and think with tripping it's unique to yourself but would have second thoughts about the benzos - especially as I've seen others mention it. Benzos dumb psys down for me and take away from the more 'enlightening' (choice of word?) side of things and that's what 5-meo is all about, it's gonah throw you headfirst into it. Think it would be better for a person to try and address their benzo problem before venturing into ++++ / ticking another off the list but respect that I don't know anything about you or your fiance... for most I know in your position acid sex is more than enough
Majority people I've met who've used this chem, including those who've had more than a single trip on this stuff I notice the pattern that 5-MEO-DMT tends not to be for them - mgs is actually the first real one I can recall to hand.
Morninggloryseed
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Nice post AcidTrippin. I have only skimmmed it in the bookstore but this guy seems to find what I do in 5-MeO-DMT...
http://www.amazon.com/Tryptamine-Palace-5-MeO-DMT-Sonoran-Desert/dp/1594772991
That aside, I'm happy to have the monopoly on using the 5-MeO-DMT experience as the holy grail, at least in the West. It is like I found my nitch. People bring their trusted friends to meet me for this experience, I won't lie...I LOVE being seen as whatever they see!
Edit: I think Shulgin was rather fond of 5-MeO-DMT. The notes in TIHKAL, I am not sure how much you can tell from TIHKAL, but in 'Lab Notes" it's clear he used 5-MeO-DMT a number of times and found it profound. When you get into Lab Notes, the Shulgin we all know and love almost seems a different man....with regard to drug use...I mean he talks about 'abuse week' where he had LSD for breakfast, MDMA for lunch, and some crack for dinner, for a week.
http://www.amazon.com/Tryptamine-Palace-5-MeO-DMT-Sonoran-Desert/dp/1594772991
That aside, I'm happy to have the monopoly on using the 5-MeO-DMT experience as the holy grail, at least in the West.
It is like I found my nitch. People bring their trusted friends to meet me for this experience, I won't lie...I LOVE being seen as whatever they see!Edit: I think Shulgin was rather fond of 5-MeO-DMT. The notes in TIHKAL, I am not sure how much you can tell from TIHKAL, but in 'Lab Notes" it's clear he used 5-MeO-DMT a number of times and found it profound. When you get into Lab Notes, the Shulgin we all know and love almost seems a different man....with regard to drug use...I mean he talks about 'abuse week' where he had LSD for breakfast, MDMA for lunch, and some crack for dinner, for a week.
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Blue Druid
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It's a good read, little bit new-agey, zero-point space, etc at times but worth reading. Only book I've come across on 5-MeO-DMT too.
Mercurious
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Just wanted to add my $0.02 worth here...
As someone who has smoked, insufflated, or ingested a decent range of the substituted and unsubstituted dimethyltryptamines, in various forms (DMT [smoked as freebase, ingested with Syrian Rue, and as part of an Amazonian ayahuasca brew], 5-MeO-DMT [smoked as freebase], and 5-OH-DMT [insufflated as a prepared yopo snuff]) I can only say that 5-MeO-DMT is truly powerful, exquisite, and sublime. Far and above more powerful and pristine than the experience of smoking DMT itself.
That said, probably nothing can ever compare with the experience I had on yopo, and it raised a whole host of questions for me as to what--and how--the experience of pure bufotenine might be, but that is probably best left for another discussion. Let's leave it at the fact that I have no longer any shred of a shadow of a doubt that that chemical is the primary--iand perhaps even the exclusive active agent--in an entheogen of the highest order.
However, in terms of the discussion at hand, I will wholeheartedly agree with MGS and others who've praised 5-MeO-DMT above all others. It is truly the most intensely, directly, overwhelmingly spiritual and revelatory psychedelic experience I know of that is available through partaking of a chemical catalyst. I'm not the only one of my community who feels this way, either. I've come to describe it as the distilled quintessence of the psychedelic experience.
Also, just wanted to second the reference to the reports Shulgin includes in TiHKAL. It's not that TiHKAL is, by any means, the end all and be all of experiential references (really, it's just a nice place to start for a quick overview), but a quick perusal of the reports included under both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT paints a stark contrast between the two. There is one report, in particular, included under 5-MeO-DMT that really captures some of what my experiences have included:
At any rate, suffice it to say that this material is among the most precious and powerful of all entheogens, a crown jewel as it were. It may have an equal or two among its peers, in some form or another, but none surpass it in my opinion. Be that as it may, it certainly isn't for everyone, but it is very very special stuff.
As someone who has smoked, insufflated, or ingested a decent range of the substituted and unsubstituted dimethyltryptamines, in various forms (DMT [smoked as freebase, ingested with Syrian Rue, and as part of an Amazonian ayahuasca brew], 5-MeO-DMT [smoked as freebase], and 5-OH-DMT [insufflated as a prepared yopo snuff]) I can only say that 5-MeO-DMT is truly powerful, exquisite, and sublime. Far and above more powerful and pristine than the experience of smoking DMT itself.
That said, probably nothing can ever compare with the experience I had on yopo, and it raised a whole host of questions for me as to what--and how--the experience of pure bufotenine might be, but that is probably best left for another discussion. Let's leave it at the fact that I have no longer any shred of a shadow of a doubt that that chemical is the primary--iand perhaps even the exclusive active agent--in an entheogen of the highest order.
However, in terms of the discussion at hand, I will wholeheartedly agree with MGS and others who've praised 5-MeO-DMT above all others. It is truly the most intensely, directly, overwhelmingly spiritual and revelatory psychedelic experience I know of that is available through partaking of a chemical catalyst. I'm not the only one of my community who feels this way, either. I've come to describe it as the distilled quintessence of the psychedelic experience.
Also, just wanted to second the reference to the reports Shulgin includes in TiHKAL. It's not that TiHKAL is, by any means, the end all and be all of experiential references (really, it's just a nice place to start for a quick overview), but a quick perusal of the reports included under both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT paints a stark contrast between the two. There is one report, in particular, included under 5-MeO-DMT that really captures some of what my experiences have included:
At any rate, suffice it to say that this material is among the most precious and powerful of all entheogens, a crown jewel as it were. It may have an equal or two among its peers, in some form or another, but none surpass it in my opinion. Be that as it may, it certainly isn't for everyone, but it is very very special stuff.
I would like to add something about lower doses. I haven't gone higher than 6mg smoked and 12mg insufflated.
I use it periodically. It brings me in contact with my true inner self, as do mushrooms, and a whole lot of other psychedelics.
The thing with 5MeODMT though, is that with this one, there are no substractions from the essence. No visuals, no thought loops, no patterns. Just a strongly grounded feeling of being in the present.
Lately I've been more drawn to insufflation, because of the more gentle nature of the experience on the body. I generally do yoga after administration to guide the energy coursing through my body. I can look at my ego less critically and more clearly.
Enjoy your journeys !
I use it periodically. It brings me in contact with my true inner self, as do mushrooms, and a whole lot of other psychedelics.
The thing with 5MeODMT though, is that with this one, there are no substractions from the essence. No visuals, no thought loops, no patterns. Just a strongly grounded feeling of being in the present.
Lately I've been more drawn to insufflation, because of the more gentle nature of the experience on the body. I generally do yoga after administration to guide the energy coursing through my body. I can look at my ego less critically and more clearly.
Enjoy your journeys !
vegan
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Sorry for the bump, but I couldn't resist.
Yes.
Hmm, let me rephrase this... YES
There are no words for how valuable ayahuasca is. It has made me feel universal consciousness, has cured me from depression, has brought me to a state of (perceived) absolute understanding...
However, with every single 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough, I experience "the reason for existence" itself. Absolute transcendence.
5-MeO-DMT annihilates all questions. What is the meaning of life? What is reality?... Irrelevant.
What is the reason for existence?... This. The answer does not take the form of an explanation. The answer is this very epiphany, the climax of consciousness, becoming the state of ecstasy itself, experiencing the ineffable absolute.
Believers might want to throw in "becoming god" somewhere in the description, but although that would help get an idea of the feeling of absolute completeness, that would give no hint of the pure, perfect, all-encompassing state of bliss that you become.
I need to work on a new trip report one of these days
.Contrarily to what is usually said, insufflation can bring you to exactly the same place as smoking, you just need more than advertised. Erowid is way off for instance. Personally, I need 10-12mg smoked to breakthrough, and 55mg insufflated to reach the same place.
Of course, each individual needs to up her/his dose slowly to know how much s/he needs, but at the right dose, both modes of administration bring to almost identical experiences (in my case at least).
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Well, I had some like 10 years ago and I was too scared to try it because the majority of reports/sentiment at the time was that it was terrifying and people wouldn't repeat it. I traded my 100mg away a long time ago and I have never gotten more. I'm still nervous about it but I intend to do it sometime. I'm the same way about DPT, was always scared because of my early learning about it and have yet to try it to this day, but intend to.
lamanogaucha
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I've had 250mg in cold storage for years, but I haven't tried it either. It's not so much that I'm apprehensive of it; rather, I'm waiting for the ideal circumstance(s) in order to maximize what it could potentially offer.
Anyway, Vegan, according to the Psychonaut Wiki, a normal dose via insufflation is listed as 5-25mg. 55mg seems like a very large dose. Are you sure that that number isn't a typo?
Anyway, Vegan, according to the Psychonaut Wiki, a normal dose via insufflation is listed as 5-25mg. 55mg seems like a very large dose. Are you sure that that number isn't a typo?
perpetualdawn
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For me, 20mg insuff. delivered the quintessential, fundamental, mystical experience. Unconditioned reality, the ground state, pure awareness, no-mind, god, monad, kensho, ego-death, all different ways to try to describe it, but of course they are silly descriptions for the ineffable. I've never come across any psychedelic or anything that cuts straight to the heart of the matter like 5-MeO-DMT.
To me, 5-MeO is sort of the ultimate psychedelic - not ultimate as in the best, but ultimate in terms of being the final one, the one that is the most effective at delivering that experience that most psychedelics kind of tease at. It's like it *just* does that, nothing more. It's barely trippy at all, in terms of visuals, music enhancement etc.
It is also super ecstatic, after the catharsis point. It's the drug that should be called Ecstasy. Utter joy and ecstatic bliss can pour through and out of you, like some kind of yogic new-age energy thing.
I used to be skeptical that these kinds of experience were real, or at least that they're possible to be experienced by fairly normal people who haven't dedicated their lives to a spiritual practice. It's kind of a holy grail for that. It does require involvement and effort (or un-effort as the case may be) from the participant, it's not like a free ticket to a spiritual carnival ride. And also it is, it just gives the impression that you, the navigating ego, are clever enough to release the grips of control and allow transcendental experience to manifest...
To me, 5-MeO is sort of the ultimate psychedelic - not ultimate as in the best, but ultimate in terms of being the final one, the one that is the most effective at delivering that experience that most psychedelics kind of tease at. It's like it *just* does that, nothing more. It's barely trippy at all, in terms of visuals, music enhancement etc.
It is also super ecstatic, after the catharsis point. It's the drug that should be called Ecstasy. Utter joy and ecstatic bliss can pour through and out of you, like some kind of yogic new-age energy thing.
I used to be skeptical that these kinds of experience were real, or at least that they're possible to be experienced by fairly normal people who haven't dedicated their lives to a spiritual practice. It's kind of a holy grail for that. It does require involvement and effort (or un-effort as the case may be) from the participant, it's not like a free ticket to a spiritual carnival ride. And also it is, it just gives the impression that you, the navigating ego, are clever enough to release the grips of control and allow transcendental experience to manifest...
Cream Gravy?
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Man I'm still uneasy about trying it. I have 500mg sitting in an amber vial at room temp. You think it'll last the plausible years until I can muster the gumption to try it?
Same for DPT lol
Same for DPT lol
Solipsis
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Otherwise just remove the air, seal well and freeze it..
I agree there are hardly words for the trip, it's so incredibly intense and powerful.. and pretty pure. For me it has been so ecstatic that it changed me. I would hate to think what happens with a bad experience, but instead of worrying about that.. just arrange to do it only in a situation where you are not preoccupied but dedicated to it 100%.
I agree there are hardly words for the trip, it's so incredibly intense and powerful.. and pretty pure. For me it has been so ecstatic that it changed me. I would hate to think what happens with a bad experience, but instead of worrying about that.. just arrange to do it only in a situation where you are not preoccupied but dedicated to it 100%.
Help?!?!
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Yes 5-MeO-DMT is other worldly to say the least. I can kind of understand the apprehension towards this one but never understood it towards DPT. Most of the simple trips are very intense but their still just psychedelics. The smart would certainly approach with respect and caution but there's no need to fear them or put them on some insane pedestal. DPT is one of my favorite psychedelics. Never understood the whole sinister vibe thing. If you consider raw power sinister, yeah you probably should stay away but that's all ther3 is too it. Its a tool like any other. You make it good or evil.
I would really like to revisit this one though. Its been almost a decade since I've used it. That's far to long!
I would really like to revisit this one though. Its been almost a decade since I've used it. That's far to long!
Solipsis
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Even if you bring stuff to the table to determine where a trip is headed, that doesn't mean that psychedelics don't each have tendencies of their own in what they highlight or manifest. That's still a sort of character which doesn't have much to do with the tripper.
DPT for me has an intermediate level of tripping which 5-MeO-DMT just even hardly seems to have, but it shares the feelings of holiness, majesty etc. However DPT is for me physically pretty harsh and dodgy and I also think there is something unreal about it that makes it fucked up in a way. I avoid it because of the physical feeling mostly..
It's fair that some psychedelics are like riding a rocket or jet engine, but with DPT it feels like there is no suspension to help deal with all the shaking and what not and like rather than being strapped in appropriately there is barely a rusty 2-point seatbelt.
5-MeO-DMT is also partially uncomfortable but it also goes beyond our regular experience of the world unlike virtually any other psychededelic so quickly that it evens out the discomfort or makes it less relevant, just like it helps that with DMT it seems possible to be too overwhelmed and rushed to have time to reflect or be scared etc (although still you can have very centered and very uncentered trips with it, for me the key difference being meditation and preparation). Trips, whether intense or mild, in which I feel with one foot in another world but with the other foot still in this one generally suck for me in some way or another. DPT was interesting to try a bunch of times and I would recommend trying it, but I was not interested in doing it more often because the downsides to me aren't really worth it.
5-MeO-DMT doesn't pretend to be real for me, instead there is something of a tao vibe in it. It usually lacks specific content to be confused about, regarding implications or even the question of realness. It's a powerful experience, the raw power on its own can do some unmistakeable things and in this sense the trip is more honest to me than 5-HT2A focused psychedelics. DPT still fucks with my head but despite the religious use associated with it I don't really think it's that redeeming and I would rather go to 2C-E for similar profound and potentially desolate majesty. At least 2C-E seems more matter of factly about it. 2C-E is definitely not always without physical discomfort but it has a lot to offer in ways that feel sincere and therapeutic to me.
Compare to mushrooms which can be therapeutic and spiritual to me, they can show you things that can help and that you need rather than want... but on the other hand I don't see why it has to be conveyed in such obstinate ways like a guru talking exclusively in riddles. There may be a lot to be taught but it also seems pointless if the majority is made impossible to understand.
I've only had discolored DPT and the dosages can be rather high for some ROAs. I'm usually not that interested in trying to take even higher dosages of drugs that don't sit well with me in order to get past problems at lower or moderate dosages, especially to take a lot of discolored product through serious ROAs.
DPT for me has an intermediate level of tripping which 5-MeO-DMT just even hardly seems to have, but it shares the feelings of holiness, majesty etc. However DPT is for me physically pretty harsh and dodgy and I also think there is something unreal about it that makes it fucked up in a way. I avoid it because of the physical feeling mostly..
It's fair that some psychedelics are like riding a rocket or jet engine, but with DPT it feels like there is no suspension to help deal with all the shaking and what not and like rather than being strapped in appropriately there is barely a rusty 2-point seatbelt.
5-MeO-DMT is also partially uncomfortable but it also goes beyond our regular experience of the world unlike virtually any other psychededelic so quickly that it evens out the discomfort or makes it less relevant, just like it helps that with DMT it seems possible to be too overwhelmed and rushed to have time to reflect or be scared etc (although still you can have very centered and very uncentered trips with it, for me the key difference being meditation and preparation). Trips, whether intense or mild, in which I feel with one foot in another world but with the other foot still in this one generally suck for me in some way or another. DPT was interesting to try a bunch of times and I would recommend trying it, but I was not interested in doing it more often because the downsides to me aren't really worth it.
5-MeO-DMT doesn't pretend to be real for me, instead there is something of a tao vibe in it. It usually lacks specific content to be confused about, regarding implications or even the question of realness. It's a powerful experience, the raw power on its own can do some unmistakeable things and in this sense the trip is more honest to me than 5-HT2A focused psychedelics. DPT still fucks with my head but despite the religious use associated with it I don't really think it's that redeeming and I would rather go to 2C-E for similar profound and potentially desolate majesty. At least 2C-E seems more matter of factly about it. 2C-E is definitely not always without physical discomfort but it has a lot to offer in ways that feel sincere and therapeutic to me.
Compare to mushrooms which can be therapeutic and spiritual to me, they can show you things that can help and that you need rather than want... but on the other hand I don't see why it has to be conveyed in such obstinate ways like a guru talking exclusively in riddles. There may be a lot to be taught but it also seems pointless if the majority is made impossible to understand.
I've only had discolored DPT and the dosages can be rather high for some ROAs. I'm usually not that interested in trying to take even higher dosages of drugs that don't sit well with me in order to get past problems at lower or moderate dosages, especially to take a lot of discolored product through serious ROAs.
vegan
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It is not a typo.
My guess is that not too many people have tried higher doses and that consequently most of the info published on insufflation is incomplete.
The list of effects on erowid is for example significantly different for smoked and insufflated 5-MeO-DMT. And the reports I've seen describe an experience where you're still aware of your surroundings, etc., as if the two experiences were by nature qualitatively different.
I was not satisfied with what I had experienced at the recommended doses (I barely felt anything at 30 mg), so I upped the dose.
At 55 mg, my experiences have been qualitatively virtually indistinguishable from smoked 5-MeO-DMT.
The only differences with the smoked method were:
- The timing for each step: 1) Nothing for 2 minutes. 2) Quick coming up (logarithm style curve) leading to a peak less 2 minutes later. 3) A plateau of 40 minutes.
- Being very slightly more clear-headed at some points, while in the 5-MeO-DMT world, which allows to appreciate and remember the experience a bit more.
- A full day of strong afterglow, with the possibility to strongly taste the 5-MeO-DMT at some times. Do not plan a job interview for the next day.
People seem to have settle for the idea that you could not get to the same place via insufflation, and that's a shame because you can get the same experience for much longer.
Others may need less than I do, but be assured that if you didn't get a smoked-like experience, upping the dose will get you there.
It took almost me one year from the moment I got some to the first time I tried.The first sub-breakthrough doses felt quite bad so I let it rest for a couple more months; but as soon as I broke threw... that was history
Good points from pepertualdawn too.
vegan
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HCl, finely ground.
I had also had the same results with 60mg, not as meticulously ground.
I think I insufflate properly. I've worked on the technique a bit. The straw goes deep inside, then I put my head back and make sure gravity does its job. When done correctly, it barely stings at all. There's no residue anywhere to be found or felt.
I tend to be a hardhead, so the amount I personally need doesn't mean much. What is more significant is that contrarily to what is usually said, insufflation is not limited to a qualitatively different experience: if at the recommended dosage you do not get effects similar to smoked 5-MeO-DMT, increase the dose and you eventually will.
I had also had the same results with 60mg, not as meticulously ground.
I think I insufflate properly. I've worked on the technique a bit. The straw goes deep inside, then I put my head back and make sure gravity does its job. When done correctly, it barely stings at all. There's no residue anywhere to be found or felt.
I tend to be a hardhead, so the amount I personally need doesn't mean much. What is more significant is that contrarily to what is usually said, insufflation is not limited to a qualitatively different experience: if at the recommended dosage you do not get effects similar to smoked 5-MeO-DMT, increase the dose and you eventually will.