• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

5,6,7,8-tetrahydro-1,3-dioxolo[4,5-g]isoquinoline

Hmmmm,I accidentally "tested" a methoxylated analog,I thought it had an effect but dismissed it as probably placebo.But I swear I intended to start a thread about it here!

Got to check out the structure tomorrow.
 
I have a question about how these rats are trained.

From what I understand from reading their methods, the rats are taught to discriminate between amphetamine and saline (or whatever the active drug they're getting is), then the test is of whether or not, when given the study drug they're respond appropriately, but that they're never exposed to other drugs besides their active drug.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but then doesn't a rat just look for getting an active instead of placebo?

--

And if TDIQ is generalizing 75% of the time (and oddly at the lower doses, not the higher ones?) for MDMA, does that mean that it would feel unlike MDMA at low doses? I wish I knew how well a BZP-TFMPP combination or methylone/ethylone/butylone would generalize for MDMA. Or for that matter, how well MDMA generalizes for Cocaine.

--

Did anyone read the discussion about how no other drug they've trained rats for discrimation tests even approached the speed that TDIQ was able to produce appropriate responding?

Does this say something about the addiction potential of the drug? Perhaps FnB with more experience with rats could comment on this.
 
The compound was 6-Methoxi-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroquinolin,the Pictet-Spengler product from 3-Methoxiphenethylamine.To my knowledge these compounds are Phenylethanol N-methyltransferase (PNMT) inhibitors,the 5,7-Dichloro-THIQ being the most potent (together with some di-chlorinated Amphetamines).

A solution of the free base of the methoxylated THIQ fell in the hot water bath and via the boiling ether sprayed over my arm.Judging it not so toxic (to first clean up myself) I preferred to save the compound first (typical for chem freaks...)-so I'm sure a got a decent dose.It felt like a small dose of a entactogen with enhanced vision and an increased sensitivity on skin.Placebo or not I wasn't sure so I intended to bring it up here-the last year though kept me occupied by more important health problems.
 
^ many related compounds substitutued THIQs seem to have a sedative type of profile...not sure how the 6-MeO changes things

many also seem to antagonize dopaminergic pathways, inclusing the simple 1,2,3,4-THIQ and are proneurotoxins
Previous work has established that 1-benzyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline (1-BnTIQ) causes a parkinsonian syndrome in rats
Culture with 100 μM 1-benzyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline for 24 h irreversibly reduced the dopamine content.

the 1-methyl analogue seems to be neuroprotective though

The endogenous amine 1-methyl-1,2,3,4- tetrahydroisoquinoline prevents the inhibition of complex I of the respiratory chain produced by MPP(+).
Author: Parrado, J : Absi, E : Ayala, A : Castano, A : Cano, J : Machado, A
Citation: J-Neurochem. 2000 Jul; 75(1): 65-71
Abstract: The endogenous monoamine 1-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline has been shown to prevent the neurotoxic effect of MPP(+) and other endogenous neurotoxins, which produce a parkinsonian-like syndrome in humans. We have tested its potential protective effect in vivo by measuring the protection of 1-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline in the neurotoxicity elicited by MPP(+) in rat striatum by tyrosine hydroxylase immunocytochemistry. Because we know that cellular damage caused by MPP(+) is primarily the result of mitochondrial respiratory inhibition at the complex I level, we have extended the study further to understand this protective mechanism. We found that the inhibitory effect on the mitochondrial respiration rate induced by MPP(+) in isolated rat liver mitochondria and striatal synaptosomes was prevented by addition of 1-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline. This compound has no antioxidant capacity; therefore, this property is not involved in its protective effect. Thus, we postulate that the preventive effect that 1-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline has on mitochondrial inhibition for MPP(+) could be due to a "shielding effect," protecting the energetic machinery, thus preventing energetic failure. These results suggest that this endogenous amine may protect against the effect of several parkinsonism-inducing compounds that are associated with progressive impairment of the mitochondrial function




3.1.2 1,2,3,4-Tetrahydroisoquinolines
Yet another interesting framework that can be derived directly from the chemical structure of apomorphine is the 1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline skeleton (THIQ, Figure 3.1, right). The
structure is frequently used in drugs interacting at a number of biological systems7,28,44,83,86,87.
Furthermore, its presence is abundant among various naturally occurring alkaloids42,75. In the
central nervous system, various endogenous and non-endogenous THIQs have been identified as
well, and often their presence is suggested to be related with Parkinson’s disease (e.g. Nmethylsalsolinol,
2)41,43,44,55,56,60,81,85, and alcohollism5,23,25,30,57,57,61,65. In many cases, these
derivatives are formed by the metabolism of dopamine and alcohol by in vivo Pictet-Spengler
cyclization reactions22,25,62,85. The neurotoxic effect of these compounds is closely related to that of
1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP, 3) due to MAO-A and MAO-B mediated
conversions of the THIQ moiety into a N-methylisoquinolinium ion (NMIQ+)34,52. As a result
analogous to MPP+, blockade of normal mitochondrial functioning by NMIQ+ causes cell death.
 
so much for that:
The destruction of receptors in the brain causes brain-diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and schizophrenia

Some toxic-to-the brain HCA are :





3-N-butylcarbonyl-beta-carboline (113)

3-N-methylcarboxamide-beta-carboline (113)

2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline (114)

2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-isoquinoline (114)

quinolinate (115)

quisqualinate (116)

tetrahydroisoquinoline (117)

1-benzyl-tetrahydro-isoquinoline (117)

N-methyl-(R)-salsolinol (118)

N-methyl-6-methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-isoquinoline (119)

6-methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-isoquinoline (119)

2,4,5-trihydroxyphenylalanine (120)

6-hydroxy-dopamine (121)

N-methyl-4-fenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (122)

1-methyl-4-fenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (123)

1-methyl-4-fenyl-1,2,5,6-tetrahydropyridine (124).

4-fenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (125)

4-fenylpyridine (125)

3-acetylpyridine (126)

1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,4-dihydropyridine (127)

1-methyl-4-cyclohexic-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (128)

1-methyl-4-(2'-methylfenyl)-1,2,3,6--tetrahydropyridine (129)

1-methyl-4-(2'-ethylfenyl)-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (130)

1-methyl-4-(3'-methoxyfenyl)-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (131)

1-methyl-4-(methylpyrrol-2-yl)-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (132)
 
Are all 1,2,3,4-THIQs potentially neurotoxic? Are 5,6,7,9-THIQ more likely to be recreational?
 
^ The 5,6,7,8-tetrahydro is the same as 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro of other compounds, it's just the inclusion of a methylenedioxy ring means that the numbering starts at a different point on the benzopyridine ring system

thus if there was enough cause to prosecute for it they could attempt to do so so while it would be unlikely to convict saying it is totaly legal is a bit of a reach...especially when one takes into account the overall change in the climate, precedents or not

You could clain 'totally legal' in the UK as the MoDA is very specific as to which chemical structures are to be classed as controlled drugs & not some vague & flakey legislation like the Analog Act in places like the US, Aus etc
 
Last edited:
Oh shit I forgot having Parkinson,see,I knew it they were after my brain cells! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
 
wouldn't taking certain substance with these agent allow the effect (if present) to be maintained yet protect against this specific form of neurotoxicity such as those noted to prevent PD et al....?

DEP and any other MAOB-I will dfo this i believe as well as for MDMA

so for those who wish to indulge a reminder as i am sure this may have been touched on beofre elsewhere but adjunctive agents usede wisely make neurotoxicity i believe more or less a non-issue
 
Last edited:
fastandbulbous said:
^ The 5,6,7,8-tetrahydro is the same as 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro of other compounds, it's just the inclusion of a methylenedioxy ring means that the numbering starts at a different point on the benzopyridine ring system


Thanks, I didn't realize that until about an hour after posting, after checking the numbers of TDIQ against the structures of the others.



Anyway, is something like TDIQ likely to be very neurotoxic? It doesn't seem to have effects too similar to any of the known neurotoxic stimulants. Or maybe that's just because it's weeded out the stimulation from the neurotoxicity..
 
as a note to their toxicity:

The neurotoxic effect of these compounds is closely related to that of
1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP, 3) due to MAO-A and MAO-B mediated conversions of the THIQ moiety into a N-methylisoquinolinium ion (NMIQ+)34,52. As a result analogous to MPP+, blockade of normal mitochondrial functioning by NMIQ+ causes cell death.

Notably the title compound is likely give or take about as toxic as MPP+ for what it is worth and in the same fashion

the 6-Meo-1,2,3,4-THIQ is about 10x as toxic as MPP+ (.36mM vs. 4.1mM potency at Complex I inhibition)

again though i am curious to discuss IF adjunctive agents can eradicate said toxicity as it appears that is possible with agents that reverse Complex I inhibition such as is seen with DEP and other agents
 
actually that may be wrong (above) as i was basing it off what FnB said noting the naming scheme and that it is essentially a THIQ and also basing on Rem B's diagram, both of which may be inaccurate

5,6,7,8-THIQ is NOT the same at all as 1,2,3,4-THIQ if i am correct and as such my statement above does not apply
 
Alright, makes sense.

but 5,6,7,8-THIQ is the same as a 1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (in placement, anyway), so then this should still at least have the potential for neurotoxicity?
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
and also basing on Rem B's diagram, both of which may be inaccurate

If we are using the IUPAC definition the diagram is correct - put it in to chemdraw or another application to check! (or just bother to read the article posted before)

I've drawn it with the N facing upwards just to confirm (although this will be the same as my original diagram - just looking at molecule from other direction)
 

Attachments

  • MDTHIQ.gif
    MDTHIQ.gif
    2.6 KB · Views: 70
Last edited:
Top