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5,6,7,8-tetrahydro-1,3-dioxolo[4,5-g]isoquinoline

Ham-milton

Ham-milton

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This THIQ was tested in rats trained to discriminate a few different drugs ((-)ephedrine, MDMA, Cocaine, Amphetamine) and rats mistook it for cocaine more than ephedrine, MDMA or Amphetamine. That's saying a lot, I think.

I can't find the exact structure, and I'm not very good at drawing from IUPAC (which really shows how low my skill level is), but this would be the first stimulant (AFAIK) of any real value from the THIQ family.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
this compound has some very interesting and unique attributes if i recall correctly

it is anxiolytic, it does not foster locomotor stimulant behaviors, it is anorexigenic, it seems to produce minimal peripheral side effects, yet generalize for cocaine
 
^ I'm pretty sure that's all correctly recalled

I would imagine a drug that give a cocaine-like high, isn't a strong stimulant, reduces anxiety, and helps you lose weight would make for the best freaking drug in the world.

If only it felt like Herion instead!
 
The structure is attached....

aren't a lot of THIQ (tetrahydroisoquinolones) mean't to be neurotoxic though?
 

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Thanks. I don't know if they're "meant" to be, but a lot of them are.

so are a lot of carbamates, though, but who doesn't love meprobamate? Hell, a lot of PEAs are neurotoxic, hasn't stopped all the tweakers.
 
Yeah mean't was the wrong word, I was under the impression though they were toxic/neurotoxic to an obvious level - I.e not fun compounds. [Not background toxic/neurotoxic like MDMA but actually unpleasant/damaging]

I could of course be mistaken though, just a vague memory from somewhere.
 
again, this is a very interesting compound

i believe this may be hinting at a potency greater than cocaine (~167%) and probably more orally bioavailable

TDIQ stimulus (ED(50)=0.9 mg/kg) failed to generalize to the central stimulants (+)amphetamine, methylphenidate or ([minus sign])ephedrine but, curiously, generalized to cocaine (ED(50)=1.5 mg/kg)

also what is that study alluding to...a high/euphoria like cocaine, BUT without nearly the degree of stimulant or classical upper effects?

also if its anxiolytic the high is cleaner assumably and there is obviously no real potential for paranoia or anxiety or the like

no real body load or irritating sides ?

not sure how that complete profile subs for cocaine, but this is certainly sounding like a very unique and beautiful substance and does not sound toxic at all

in the interest of science this substance seems to beg for further study =D
 
And it'd be totally legal. the structure just looks like something that'd be appetizing, kinda like MDMA with a completed ring.

Not sure about the number, but what about a methyl group above the NH?

It does make you wonder what sort of generalization it'd produce if they expanded the tested substances. It may have a stimulant-like structure, but it doesn't seem to produce any of the obvious stimulant effects. I wonder if they included opiates or something like methaqualone if it'd generalize more to them.

From the description, it sounds a hell of a lot like methaqualone, actually. Highly euphoric (a la cocaine) but without the negatives.

but then again, what does a generalization test like this actually tell us? If only rats wouldn't be so fussy about who let tell their great drug stories to.
 
I find cocaine to be far more euphoric, but the negatives are much worse as well. A cocaine-like euphoria that also acted as an anxiolytic sounds hard to beat.
 
the US law again is broad...looking carefully at it this indeed is under the analogue law umbrella...

also there is one part of the wording that enables due to the unique attributes of this unique compound that may be IMO enough to NOT include it....but it is not perhaps obvious, and not totally conclusively legal under present known dictates of interpretation

so is it 'totally legal' (as in it could not be remotely considered prosecutable), no...but if i represented someone in court indicted under such would i think a conviction could be had....no
 
Where exactly do you suppose it falls under? It's from a completely distinct chemical family. I can't think of anything similar that is under schedule 1 or 2.

It couldn't be considered "substantially similar" in either structure or effect.

Hell, the DEA couldn't prove that AET was substantially similar to DET or DMT, and the case was dismissed in US v. Forbes. Even some of the DEA experts testified that it wasn't, and the one who testified that it was based that claim on the fact that they were all of the same family. That case can't be made here.

So based upon previous statements in court by the DEA, I can't imagine this drug being prosecuted.

also, perhaps you know the answer to this, while researching my statement that this would be entirely legal, I came across some information about THIQ itself. It was claimed to be "far more addictive than Heroin ever dreamed of being" by someone who appeared to know what he was talking about. I find that hard to believe, but hopefully someone will know the basis for this claim. If it were true, I'd imagine it'd be on the black market right now. But it's not...
 
In the wording of the law it could be construed to only have to be structurally similar to a I or II and it is indeed very similar to MDMA as it could be considered simply a constrained MDMA which sounds similar to me in that you can call it that

thus if there was enough cause to prosecute for it they could attempt to do so so while it would be unlikely to convict saying it is totaly legal is a bit of a reach...especially when one takes into account the overall change in the climate, precedents or not

you may be referring to this:
Tetrahydroisoquinolone (THIQ)- This compound is a condensation product which has been found in the urine of some alcoholics but not in non-alcoholics (or in smaller quantities). THIQ has been found to bind to the delta opioid receptors in the central nervous system and seems to make mice prefer ethanol. The suggestion has been made that this may explain the addiction to alcohol, but this is largely unsupported.

Obviously there are many many THIQs so what exactly that guy referred to i do not know but i believe it was perhaps the above
 
yes, that is the above

i think it may be at Sigma recerptor where the cocaine sub is coming in strong (along with also having potent A2-AR and some DAT effect)
 
It's short one methyl group and 2 hydrogens from MDMA. It causes euphoria. It's substantially similar.
 
^does it actually cause euphoria though? [without causing problems]

If so it just would be very surprising no one has figured this out being such an obvious analogue.
 
how can it produce a cocaine-like high without the euphoria when it doesn't have the stimulant effects? what else is there to cocaine? it's an analgesic?
 
I'm not suggesting euphoria by another mechanism I am just questioning where the information "this compound causes euphoria" is coming from.

Rat studies? Anecdotal reports?

If it does cause euphoria - would just be very surprised no one thought to test it already. [Possibly they have and it was bad?]
 
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