4-FA (or other amphetamine analog) daily for ADD

[ebola?]

4-fa was found by Nichols et al. to lack the serotonergic neurotoxicity of MDMA, and even methylone dwarfed 4fa's release of 5ht. 4fa is also highly selective for DA over NE, even moreso than meth, IIRC, and is very long lasting, suggesting that it might make a good ADD med. However, there has been little study on the long-term viability (and toxicity) of repeated low-level 5ht release, and 5ht release itself might reduce stimulants' positive effect on concentration and motivation.

FYI, references to this chemical as a potent release of serotonin are not supported by scientific data. It's 5-HT releasing ability was only moderately more significant than that of rascemic amphetamine in animal studies.

IIRC, it was more between meth and methylone (more toward meth), meaning that 5ht release is meager but unlikely trivial.
...
Could 4fa be combined with something that blocks 5ht transporters, to abolish 5ht release (and oxidative stress incurred by transporter reversal)? What if someone tolerates like Celexa or Zoloft (2 highly selective SSRIs) well?

ebola

 

[yoyoman]

4-fa and 4-fma just one dose causes mild depression for a few days in me. Once I tried using 4-fa everyday, and when i ran out, i had HORRIBLE depression waay worse than anything i got from a binge on MDMA/mephedrone/methylone. It lasted 2 weeks, i remember some days almost feel like crying at work just from lyrics playing on the radio at work.

The only way i could see it working is taking an SSRI along with it that totally blocks it from releasing any serotonin.

 

[Transform]

What sort of doses did you take? What was your usage pattern like?

Recreational use every day? I would be surprised if that didn't cause problems!

 

[grafittibob]

I tried using 4-FA for a study aid, but it doesn't work that great unfortunately.(I have been using adderall, I don't have ADD but it's still helpful.)
I took about 50 mg and it was still too speedy compared to the 15 mg adderall I normally would take. Plus it made me too giddy and euphoric.
It's worth a try, but I would look into a something else to use.

 

[ebola?]

Have you tried a lower dose?

ebola

 

[BananasAndOranges]

No. Fuck all these 4-mexvgfs drugs they make me sick everyone. Fuck fa gave me a lung infection....thats gross ya know go to a doctor get aderall

 

[alienidentikit]

Yes, you should try around 10-20 mg orally maybe. Though tolerance grows quickly.

 

[ebola?]

No. Fuck all these 4-mexvgfs drugs they make me sick everyone. Fuck fa gave me a lung infection....thats gross ya know go to a doctor get aderall

Why would 4-substituted amphetamines more readily hinder immune function than other amphetamines? Why wouldn't a lower dose present fewer side-effects?

ebola

 

[rnd.id.]

So, did anyone try the combination with an SSRI to block 5-HT release and get a "productive" amphetamine-like effect yet? (As mentioned by ebola? and yoyoman above)

Btw, regarding the combination with SSRIs, I'm also a bit concerned about possible MAOI effects of 4-FA, but I don't have any data either way about that.

 

[Dysphoric]

if you truly have ADD go get a vyvanse, adderall or something else prescription.

Out of all the AD(H)D drugs I've tried (Adderall, Dexadrine, Vyvanse, Focalin, Desoxyn)

Vyvanse is the most unforgiving. The crash is fucking brutal, it kicks you in the balls! Not only that but it had a pretty big body load. It was fine at first, but after a couple of months it got unbearable! The cleanest one out of them all surprisingly for some is Desoxyn. Little to no body load, very mild comedown, and it was the easiest to eat on.

But that's just me.

 

[^Xayo]

i wouldn't recommend it since its a serotonin releaser after all. daily serotonin releaser intake can't end in a good way imo. It will make you feel the emptiness of an amphetamine comedown x10 i would guess

 

[atrollappears]

I'd be worried about ingesting any research chemical on a daily basis. Something like 5-HT2B agonism, which isn't a problem with occasional use, but could cause big problems in the long term (like seen with fenfluramine). 4-fluorophenethylamine is a serotonin agonist, after all. And maybe that would explain its empathogenic effects despite not releasing huge amounts of serotonin. However, that may be better explained by just differences between rats and people... rats don't generalize 4-FA to recreationally viable serotonin releasers, while humans do.

 

[blowjay]

It is very dehydrating even when taken at low doses 15-30 mg. I have used it as an occasional study aid and it works fairly well (better than caffeine but still a bit under regular amphetamine). The problems come with frequent urination and dehydration. You have to be drinking a glass of water every 30-45 minutes minimum to combat the dehydration but then 10 minutes later have to piss it out, really big problem when taking exams.

 

[atrollappears]

^Hahaha agreed. Insufflated ~360 mg of 4-FA and oh lord did i pee...

 

[Paul Muad Dib]

^Hahaha agreed. Insufflated ~360 mg of 4-FA and oh lord did i pee...

Wow, is it safe in those doses? I took 160mg orally once and it completely floored me. Effectwise it was like a medium dose of MDMA with some vertigo and wobbly eyes and all. Normally I stay at a 120-140, and I find the dose response curve very steep.

As a study aid I find 30-60mg does the trick, but when I go over 60 and the pleasant effects top the clarity and focus I actually find that after the first hour or so I can barely focus.

Does anyone know if 15mg two times a day would be risky? Maybe 10x2? (Not that I will do it, but for the ADD-folks). 40 mg each day would burn me out in 3 weeks I guess. And with the unknown risks of a novel chem like this it seems like a nogo IMO.

 

[atrollappears]

Well I'm fine, if a little tired. Just felt like a lot of speed. Won't be approaching that dose again.

I doubt anyone can give you a risk assessment of this chemical simply because the risks haven't really been looked at in studies, besides serotonergic neurotoxicity which seems absent. The jury's still out on dopaminergic toxicity (looks promising, but you can't be sure until studies have been done) and 5-HT2B agonism (looks disconcertingly likely, from what I know).

Edit: Forgot to mention, no toxic effect from 360 mg, if you were curious. 4-FA is rather light on the body. Resting heartrate was maybe 85-90, with exaggerated sinus tachycardia. Was able to sleep about 9 hours after administration with the help of 5 mg guanfacine and 2 mg lorazepam.

 

[atrollappears]

Btw, regarding the combination with SSRIs, I'm also a bit concerned about possible MAOI effects of 4-FA, but I don't have any data either way about that.

4-FA inhibits MAO less than any of the other para-halogens, as MAOI properties increase down the halogen series. And I don't think PCA is known as a strong MAOI, but I could be wrong. Because of that relationship I'd guess that MAOI properties are related more to the size of the substituent at the 4 position than electronegativity, and since fluorine is significantly smaller than hydrogen, I doubt it's an issue.

 

[atrollappears]

Could 4fa be combined with something that blocks 5ht transporters, to abolish 5ht release (and oxidative stress incurred by transporter reversal)? What if someone tolerates like Celexa or Zoloft (2 highly selective SSRIs) well?

I'm not sure that 4-FA's empathogenic effects are entirely, or even mostly, the result of serotonin release. It could very easily be an agonist (I experience mild psychedelic effects on higher doses). After all, 4-fluorophenethylamine is a serotonin agonist.
If that were the case, then SSRIs would do little to reduce 4-FA's serotonergic effects, except maybe a dulling effect due to receptor downregulation after regular administration of the SSRI.

 

[DoctorChemX]

I Know that chloroamphetamine is a pretty potent neurotoxin
that seems to have a selectivity for serotonin receptors more
like MDMA than dopaminergic receptors like amphetamine itself.

But 4-FA is not something i have studied that well, interestingly
enough i use to be quite fascinated by halogen substituted amphetame,
it's interesting what an extra chlorine or fluorine atom can do to effects.

As for using it for ADD, wow, check out some research journals maybe,
it might be there, since amphetamine does seem to eradicate ADD symptoms
it would be interesting to know what substituted ones themselves are capable of.

 

[Amu]

I'm not sure that 4-FA's empathogenic effects are entirely, or even mostly, the result of serotonin release. It could very easily be an agonist (I experience mild psychedelic effects on higher doses). After all, 4-fluorophenethylamine is a serotonin agonist.
If that were the case, then SSRIs would do little to reduce 4-FA's serotonergic effects, except maybe a dulling effect due to receptor downregulation after regular administration of the SSRI.

Yes, but it is possible that excess serotonin present after SSRI's SERT blockade would compete with the agonist when both are trying to bind to serotonin receptors. For example, this is why amantadine, a dopamine agonist, might not work as well if a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor is co-administered with it.