RCs 4-FA and Kratom combination

[St3ve]

In the past I've had successful experiments mixing low doses of kratom with low doses of methyl/ethylphenidate. Higher doses of either one would make my head feel a bit overstimulated and it became less enjoyable in my experience. Given 4-FA's more gentle nature compared to most other stimulants I thought it might mix well with a stimulating kratom powder (white sumatra).

(t=00.00) 4g kratom (white sumatra) ingested and ~50mg of 4-FA in a rizla wrap was consumed a few minutes later.
(t=+00.20): first alerts of kratom kicking in (desire to get up and go do something and subtle moodlift).
(t=+00.35): Definitely coming up with quite a bit of energy, I decide to go on for a cycle ride in the sun. I download a 2hr techno set and put it on my phone to have something to listen to.
(t=+00.45-03.00): From this point on I was cycling outdoors in the sun. Compared to kratom or 4-FA alone I had a great amount of energy and endurance. Music sounded pretty good, nothing mind shatteringly great, but nice nonetheless! There was a pleasant mood lift and my mind felt quite calm. Cycling with the repetitive music blasting in my ears kept the motivation to keep moving high. I felt anxious when I was forced to stop for traffic lights but this got better as soon as I could get moving again. Somewhere half way in the cycling journey I did have desire to redose something. I couldn't decide figure out if it was more kratom I desired or more 4-FA but there was definitely a feeling of wanting more there despite actually feeling very good. The urge-for-more feeling stayed for a while but was gone by the time I got home (around t+3hrs).
(t=+03.00-06.00): came home feeling slightly spaced out and content. The high from having had a good workout brought out the opioidy feeling from the kratom. Hot shower felt nice and I had a very pleasant warm and relaxed feeling in my muscles for the rest of the evening. I watched some TV for a while but had problems paying attention to it, my mind was drifting around too much to stay focused for too long. I also consumed two little cans of beer (0.66ml total) which didn't seem to do too much for me other than taste nice .
(t=+06.00): smoked a small joint and felt very high quickly, went to bed and fell asleep quite quickly.

Overall this combination was very pleasant and superior to my prior experiments combining comparable kratom doses (3-5g) with 10-30mg of methyl and ethylphenidate. I'm considering repeating this today with a slightly larger amount of 4-FA (75mg) and the same amount of kratom. Anyone else tried this combination?

 

[Shpongleton]

I have tried this combination. It is fantastic and is the perfect feeling between mind and body. This combination became my daily habit and now that I have decided to quit doing 4-FA I am paying the price for it. The withdrawal is terrifyingly bad. There is just a constant source of dysphoria with my whole body tensing up, unable to make the tension go away. Imagine the exact opposite of the calm content feeling of a combination like this and that would be where I am at right now. It has been about 2 1/2 weeks since I last did 4-FA and it does not seem to be getting any better. I would urge caution with this sort of thing.

 

[St3ve]

Hmmm interesting! I retried this combo yesterday with a slightly higher dose of 4-FA (75mg). It didn't seem to affect the high too much although I did notice bouts of aggressive feelings occasionally, somewhat like I get when coming down of a larger dose of kratom. What sort of doses of both were you taking every day?

 

[Shpongleton]

Hmmm interesting! I retried this combo yesterday with a slightly higher dose of 4-FA (75mg). It didn't seem to affect the high too much although I did notice bouts of aggressive feelings occasionally, somewhat like I get when coming down of a larger dose of kratom. What sort of doses of both were you taking every day?

For kratom I was and still am taking about 3-4 doses per day of about 3.5 grams. With the 4-FA I was taking 30-40mg which does not sound like much but I am a really tiny guy and always dose less than most. It feels like at the moment that it's so easy for anxiety to rear its ugly head. I'm a pretty calm person and kratom still helps but so much irritates me that would not normally bother me. That and just the general depressive feeling. It's as if my emotions swing from being overwhelming to nonexistent, a grey lack of satisfaction from things that normally excite me. And then just finally the physical tension that if I let myself think about for very long it quickly results in tightening of muscles, jaw clenching, holding my breath.

All of which is probably more a result of 4-FA withdrawal but I would guess it takes a certain twist when you add the physical properties of kratom. Where 4-FA can often times result in an unpleasant body load, it's as if kratom melts that away in the most alluring way possible. Being a low dose of both the combination is not incredible euphoric but it's the way the combination acts on both the mind and the body that makes it feel so right and perhaps unknowingly dangerous.

But hey, just sharing my experience. Thankfully I think the withdrawal is manageable and I have the energy and situation to fight it but it is really not fun and has been affecting my work which I am afraid of the most.

 

[Wynardtage]

I have tried this combination quite a few times, usually around 110mg of 4-FA and 2g of kratom. The dose/nausea response of this combination is harsh and unforgiving..much prefer hydrocodone + 4-FA.

 

[St3ve]

I've not noticed much nausea but I can see how it could arise at slightly higher doses... Seems like you need to keep either the 4-FA dose low or the kratom dose low for this combo to be worthwhile. I'll try the low dose kratom/higher dose 4-FA at some point and see how that works out!

 

[FlawedByDesign]

~5 grams of bali and ~120mgs of 4-FA makes for a great pseudo-speedball

 

[St3ve]

~5 grams of bali and ~120mgs of 4-FA makes for a great pseudo-speedball

Do you have any significant tolerance for either? 5g is what I consider a full dose of kratom, from 7g onwards it hits me a bit too hard and the effects don't particularly get any better than the 5g would. My normal dose is 3-4g. 4-FA I've done from 50-300mg and it doesn't seem to provide any gain in useful effects above 200mg in a single dose... 120 is probably about ideal. Would you recommend your dosing scheme to someone with no tolerance?