RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[GaryGlisten]

Hi everyone I'm new to the forum. I'm a 50 year old male with a history of fairly mild drug usage since the age of about 17. I spent several years smoking mainly hash and doing the odd trips at weekends, mushrooms when available and amphetamines very occasionally. In the mid 90's I got into doing mdma/mda but never at a level that I'd consider to be excessive. I had another period in 2005 when I got into doing mdma 3 or 4 times a week a bit for maybe 3 months when I was hanging around with a friend who sold it. I have never been an addict, have a lot of self control and have never had any lasting effects which could cause me to be worried about my physical health. I'm quite slim at 5'10" and 140 lbs and reasonably healthy. I stopped smoking in 1994. I just lately started hankering for a bit of speed and since unfortunately I have lost touch with anyone who can get hold of it I decided to check out the RCs that are available online. I ended up buying a gram of 3-fpm crystal and started by taking a couple of small finger dabs in water. It seemed to be quite pleasant and later that night I did a couple more slightly larger finger dabs in a small bit of water and had a pretty good although sleepless Thursday night and was awake all through the next day when I bought another 4 grams because the blanket ban is imminent. I finally got some kind of sleep Friday and woke up Saturday morning feeling like an absolute sack of shit, feeling very irritable and angry all day, feeling very weak and sleeping quite a bit through the afternoon. Later on Saturday night I ingested maybe 3 finger dabs in water and didn't get the same effect as Thursday night feeling much more dysphoric and went to bed and slept after a couple of hours which kind of surprised me after everything people have said about 3-fpm. Anyway Sunday comes and I'm still feeling weak, I have backache, pains in my abdomen region and have lost a lot of weight, much more than I would have expected since I'm pretty sure that I've been eating about as much as I would eat on any normal day. Anyway so I decided not going to take any more Sunday and I went to bed about midnight and slept a good 8+ hours full of weird vivid dreams and woke up Monday feeling really grotty like I could sleep for another day. I practically have to hold my eyelids open., I can't remember ever having felt so tired but much more worrying is the weakness in my legs and back, the memory loss and disorientation but most worrying is the sudden numbness /coldness in my hands, feet and even lips. To have such severe effects after consuming what probably amounts to little over 100 mg has me seriously worried about brain/nerve damage. I've never had this effect from anything before.

 

[BigG]

I take it you're from the UK by your post. The quality of 3-F available at the minute varies massively. The fluffy powder is said to be far superior to the crystal.

Check out the 3-FPM thread over in Europe and African Drug Discussion as we have some proper 3 heads posting there who can tell you anything you want to know.

 

[mozaik0000]

^^ Hey Gary, don't worry about permanent brain/nerve damage, i also went through what you describe, it took me a week of sobriety to stop being an angry asshole, and another 3 weeks to regain my natural enthusiasm/life force. A rough patch for sure, glad that's over! Haven't touched a stim ever since.

You'll get better, just give it some time. Eat healthy, sleep enough, drink lots of water, and be aware that caffeine might make you feel even more tense.

I was also amazed by how small amounts can be followed by days of shit. Really addictive too, in the end i went through 15g in a few weeks...

When i read about people around here who have been binging for months in a row without ever taking a break, i genuinely hurts me to think about what they're going to have to confront...

 

[belfort]

It's a matter of dosage. This substance becomes a whole new beast at doses above 500mg. I would never recommend taking that much in single doses though, since all I've seen and heard suggests that this is one of the unhealthiest stimulants out there right now.

jesus christ 500 mgs!?!there are reports where people feel good effects off of 20-40 mgs..it worries me that there is such a big difference in what affects people on here..is it tolerance, individual body chemistry or poor quality that s causing such varied responses?

 

[crOOk]

jesus christ 500 mgs!?!there are reports where people feel good effects off of 20-40 mgs..it worries me that there is such a big difference in what affects people on here..is it tolerance, individual body chemistry or poor quality that s causing such varied responses?

There are those among us who enjoy the rush of IV stimulants. I rarely do them anymore, maybe once a month while I have not injected any stimulants for months. I still did 400mg of clean amphetamine sulfate (A/B extraction of 2g good street speed) the other day. Most people would agree that 30-60mg is a good dose I suppose. There are others here who dose 3F-P at doses north of 500mg in single shots. However this is only to experience the powerful rush. Most people would feel very very uncomfortable at such doses. Very uncomfortable. 50mg 3F-P is a good dose for some enjoyable stimulation unless you are one of the unfortunate people who have went down the path of using stimulants intravenously! The amphetamine effects were actually so powerful that I barely felt the 120mg morphine sulfate I dosed in the same shot (having no tolerance half this dose would have killed me if I hadn't added the stimulant I suppose) - I even got a tiny rush which is very hard to achieve with amphetamine...

 

[BigG]

I barely felt the 120mg morphine sulfate I dosed in the same shot (having no tolerance half this dose would have killed me if I hadn't added the stimulant I suppose)

Adding stimulants to your morphine shot doesn't in anyway reduce the potential lethality of the opiate....

If anything it just makes it worse..

This is like the myth that a shot of amphetamine will somehow help to reverse an opiate overdose .......it won't.....

Please take care.

 

[crOOk]

Adding stimulants to your morphine shot doesn't in anyway reduce the potential lethality of the opiate....

If anything it just makes it worse..

This is like the myth that a shot of amphetamine will somehow help to reverse an opiate overdose .......it won't.....

Please take care.

Sorry, but that is just wrong in my experience. That sort of morphine dose would've killed me 4 times over without the stimulant. I barely felt it. It was pharmaceutical grade and I have no tolerance. Did get pins and needles, but after that it was barely noticable. The dangers stem from some stimulants (most notably cocaine) having a short half-life which means opiates with a longer half-life will depress your breathing once the stimulants wear off. Not sure how experienced you are with (pseudo)speedballs, but most IV users are well aware of this. It is a dangerous combo, but only for the reasons I mentioned. In my case, with the amphetamine lasting for over 2 days (weird metabolism here + high dose) the biggest danger were cardiovascular issues if you ask me.

Thanks for your concern nonetheless, I would not advise anyone to dose either opiates or stimulants this high, especially not intravenously without a proper tolerance. It's playing with fire.

 

[GaryGlisten]

I feel quite a bit better after a lot more sleep..that's something 3f seems to be good for for sure, I haven't slept like that in ages. The numbness on my palms and the soles of my feet is much less than yesterday, barely noticeable now so possibly it's just effects/ after affects of vasoconstriction. Greatly relieved that I'm not permanently zombified. I'll probably just use this at weekends until it's all gone. I can't see how anyone can consider this a good functional stim, I was a raspberry ripple yesterday.

 

[iRavage]

I can't seem to understand this substance... I bought 2g with the intention of functional 25-40mg doses, I've yet to feel anything at 90mg orally that I dosed in the morning (I mixed it in my coffee).
It could also be a tolerance issue, I've been abusing amphetamine and 4F-MPH daily for about 2 month now, my doses are relatively small but I guess it could be still causing some tolerance issues...

I think my best bet would be to either take a tolerance break or up the dose, while I feel the first one is the safer possibility, obviously... How long should I stop my stim intake for? 2 weeks? I tried to
stop it on monday, but I had very little sleep and just dosed in order to get up... It's been the same today. Will attempt it tomorrow again! I'll just won't redose today which should get me some sleep tonight.
I got kratom on hand in case I feel sluggish again...

 

[Ergan]

hey guys i would like to ask for some advice. Three days ago i gained some massive rocks of 3-fpm and quickly got into my unintended 2 day bender on 3-fpm which went great! until today i experienced something that made me feel like i was about to die.

so we start off with a normal 70mg bump, which is pretty normal for me as i have done more than 2g in less than a 2 hour period of time. so the night starts off great, great euphoria and some effects compared to if you fused mdma speed and a slight psychedelic drug. after about 12 hours i had used over a gram due to my insistence redosing this is where it gets really intense i have an extremely fucked up night like i had taken a stupid amount of meth and was suffering a complete break down of reality, which call the psychotropic stage.

i decided to hide the drug from me for fear of an overdose of some sorts, two days pass and the next day was pretty normal bit tired and depth perception is a bit cooked but nothing i cant handle with ease. Then on that day around 4pm i went to have a mix with my mate at his house, this is where i feel after a massive bill, something different, something that scared me. i was enveloped with extreme stimulation but not enjoyable, like anxiety but within the skin. i try to ignore it but it gets stronger and stronger, i start to have a psychedelic like flash back but this wasnt just a flashback this made me believe i could actually die right now. then i jumped on my bike and road home, bad bad move. 5mins into my ride i gain a unlimited amount of energy and manage to keep up with cars going around 30-40kph which isnt normal for me. Then i decided to spot because i was losing balance and this is when i checked my pulse and i felt an extremely powerful heart beat, like you could see my neck rise and fall as the blood flowed into my head. Then i felt a heart beat that felt like it nearly blew my head off, this wasn't just a feeling as my neck grew to a scary size.

I return home still feeling the 'full' effects maybe slightly less pain in the head and my heart beat returned to normal and didn't grow again. any help would be loved, i have been reading up and there are some side effects to this drug that is very damaging to your health.

nearly all come down 2 hours later after i wrote this im still restless and have vision of an old man.

 

[BigG]

Sorry, but that is just wrong in my experience. That sort of morphine dose would've killed me 4 times over without the stimulant. I barely felt it. It was pharmaceutical grade and I have no tolerance. Did get pins and needles, but after that it was barely noticable. The dangers stem from some stimulants (most notably cocaine) having a short half-life which means opiates with a longer half-life will depress your breathing once the stimulants wear off. Not sure how experienced you are with (pseudo)speedballs, but most IV users are well aware of this. It is a dangerous combo, but only for the reasons I mentioned. In my case, with the amphetamine lasting for over 2 days (weird metabolism here + high dose) the biggest danger were cardiovascular issues if you ask me.

Thanks for your concern nonetheless, I would not advise anyone to dose either opiates or stimulants this high, especially not intravenously without a proper tolerance. It's playing with fire.

Its not wrong mate. I've been a paramedic for over 15 years and seen many, many opiate overdoses.

Amphetamines DO NOT reduce the risk of an opiate overdose in any way. An opiate overdose suppresses the autonomic breathing response leading to respiratory failure and then cardiac arrest. To assume that a stimulant will some how reverse or prevent this (regardless of halfife) is just plain rubbish. The only thing that will reverse an opiate overdose is an opiate antagonist like narcan.

Please consult a medical book or ask you doctor some questions before posting something that could potentially kill someone.

Just because you didnt die means nothing ....
Your experiences are what they are but I'm afraid this is just a medical fact

 

[Ziiirp]

hey guys i would like to ask for some advice. Three days ago i gained some massive rocks of 3-fpm and quickly got into my unintended 2 day bender on 3-fpm which went great! until today i experienced something that made me feel like i was about to die.

so we start off with a normal 70mg bump, which is pretty normal for me as i have done more than 2g in less than a 2 hour period of time. so the night starts off great, great euphoria and some effects compared to if you fused mdma speed and a slight psychedelic drug. after about 12 hours i had used over a gram due to my insistence redosing this is where it gets really intense i have an extremely fucked up night like i had taken a stupid amount of meth and was suffering a complete break down of reality, which call the psychotropic stage.

i decided to hide the drug from me for fear of an overdose of some sorts, two days pass and the next day was pretty normal bit tired and depth perception is a bit cooked but nothing i cant handle with ease. Then on that day around 4pm i went to have a mix with my mate at his house, this is where i feel after a massive bill, something different, something that scared me. i was enveloped with extreme stimulation but not enjoyable, like anxiety but within the skin. i try to ignore it but it gets stronger and stronger, i start to have a psychedelic like flash back but this wasnt just a flashback this made me believe i could actually die right now. then i jumped on my bike and road home, bad bad move. 5mins into my ride i gain a unlimited amount of energy and manage to keep up with cars going around 30-40kph which isnt normal for me. Then i decided to spot because i was losing balance and this is when i checked my pulse and i felt an extremely powerful heart beat, like you could see my neck rise and fall as the blood flowed into my head. Then i felt a heart beat that felt like it nearly blew my head off, this wasn't just a feeling as my neck grew to a scary size.

I return home still feeling the 'full' effects maybe slightly less pain in the head and my heart beat returned to normal and didn't grow again. any help would be loved, i have been reading up and there are some side effects to this drug that is very damaging to your health.

nearly all come down 2 hours later after i wrote this im still restless and have vision of an old man.

That sounds horrible man. I had a similar encounter after doing desoxypipradrol. But I just crouched and literally sweated it out, trying to concentrate on my breath. Luckily it seemed to be just a panic attack and after a few exhausted days I was just fine. This was years ago. Please report back on how you feel and remember : never try exercising on high doses of stimulants. I wouldn't do sports with the tiniest amount of noradrenaline releasers in me.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Its not wrong mate. I've been a paramedic for over 15 years and seen many, many opiate overdoses.

Amphetamines DO NOT reduce the risk of an opiate overdose in any way. An opiate overdose suppresses the autonomic breathing response leading to respiratory failure and then cardiac arrest. To assume that a stimulant will some how reverse or prevent this (regardless of halfife) is just plain rubbish. The only thing that will reverse an opiate overdose is an opiate antagonist like narcan.

Please consult a medical book or ask you doctor some questions before posting something that could potentially kill someone.

Just because you didnt die means nothing ....
Your experiences are what they are but I'm afraid this is just a medical fact

I'm afraid you're wrong on this one, mate.

I give all due respect to your practical experience, but research on this subject is quite thorough. Amphetamine is a respiratory stimulant and does increase an individual's maximum tolerable dose of an opiate.

This doesn't mean that speedballs are safe--far from it--it's not exactly a case of 1 + -1 = 0. Adrenoceptors in the body have a variety of disparate and mutually contradictory roles: their activation mediates both vasoconstriction and vasodilation responses across different organs and these interactions can manifest in different ways in individuals with differing tolerances or with a different drug load on ther body. In this case the largest concern would not be mu-receptor-mediated respiratory depression but rather centrally mediated circulatory collapse--loss of blood volume to interstitial spaces due to changes in the hydrostatic/osmotic gradient, and the pulmonary edema that naturally follows this due to vasovagal response to maintain cranial pressure. Responses of this sort have (exceedingly rarely) been observed even in people who did not take an opiate at all--it's a function of the CNS activity of stimulants.

Additionally, narcan will reverse even respiratory depression mediated by a mechanism other than mu-opioid agonism, and there are other drugs with entirely different mechanisms of action which also effectively reverse respiratory depression depression. Interestingly, one of those drugs known to reverse respiratory depression--tianeptine--is an opioid itself.

And by the way, Ritalin has actually been used as an opiate adjunct therapy in elderly patients with significant pain management needs for its ability to both lower the minimum effective dose and increase the maximum safe dose of opiate.

----

Regardless of all of this information, however, speedballs are *not* safe drug combinations.

 

[BigG]

I'm afraid you're wrong on this one, mate.

I give all due respect to your practical experience, but research on this subject is quite thorough. Amphetamine is a respiratory stimulant and does increase an individual's maximum tolerable dose of an opiate.

This doesn't mean that speedballs are safe--far from it--it's not exactly a case of 1 + -1 = 0. Adrenoceptors in the body have a variety of disparate and mutually contradictory roles: their activation mediates both vasoconstriction and vasodilation responses across different organs and these interactions can manifest in different ways in individuals with differing tolerances or with a different drug load on ther body. In this case the largest concern would not be mu-receptor-mediated respiratory depression but rather centrally mediated circulatory collapse--loss of blood volume to interstitial spaces due to changes in the hydrostatic/osmotic gradient, and the pulmonary edema that naturally follows this due to vasovagal response to maintain cranial pressure. Responses of this sort have (exceedingly rarely) been observed even in people who did not take an opiate at all--it's a function of the CNS activity of stimulants.

Additionally, narcan will reverse even respiratory depression mediated by a mechanism other than mu-opioid agonism, and there are other drugs with entirely different mechanisms of action which also effectively reverse respiratory depression depression. Interestingly, one of those drugs known to reverse respiratory depression--tianeptine--is an opioid itself.

And by the way, Ritalin has actually been used as an opiate adjunct therapy in elderly patients with significant pain management needs for its ability to both lower the minimum effective dose and increase the maximum safe dose of opiate.

----

Regardless of all of this information, however, speedballs are *not* safe drug combinations.

Yes amphetamine is a respiratory stimulant in normal circumstances hence it's sometimes use as a decongestant but my point is that to suggest that including amphetamine in a very large morphine shot to negate the chance of an overdose is just plain wrong. My issue with the post was that it was suggesting that as long as the half life of the stimulant is greater than that off the opiate then the person can't overdose. In this case the reduced autonomic breathing response from the overdose of opioid will far exceed any far smaller degree of repiratory stimulation that amphetamine provides. Anyone reading that initial post would be under the impression that adding speed to their opiate shot will "stop them ODing". Increasing the tolletrable level of opiate isnt the same as negating any chance of an OD. I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying merely the dangerous implication of someone less well read than yourself reading that initial post.

Does that make sense? Thanks for your input though and I agree with what you are saying but it was the incorrect implication of the original post that was so troubling to me personally ......

 

[crOOk]

And let's not forget that it does matter whether you are conscious or not. There are means to voluntariy override autonomic breathing as long as you are awake.

I still do not see why my initial post was so troubling to you. I explicitely stated that this sort of morphine dose would have killed me if I hadn't thrown the speed into the mix. It was my intention to make the reader aware that 120mg IV morphine sulfate is a lethal dose for people without tolerance and that I only survive such doses due to the stimulant. It's the truth. I am pretty sure that anyone with access to injectable morphine sulfate will be well aware that such a dose taken on it's own will kill far more than 50% of the test subjects lol. If not, he is quite unlikely to come to the 3F-PM thread and find his information in my post about an amphetamine/morphine speedball.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Yes amphetamine is a respiratory stimulant in normal circumstances hence it's sometimes use as a decongestant but my point is that to suggest that including amphetamine in a very large morphine shot to negate the chance of an overdose is just plain wrong. My issue with the post was that it was suggesting that as long as the half life of the stimulant is greater than that off the opiate then the person can't overdose. In this case the reduced autonomic breathing response from the overdose of opioid will far exceed any far smaller degree of repiratory stimulation that amphetamine provides. Anyone reading that initial post would be under the impression that adding speed to their opiate shot will "stop them ODing". Increasing the tolletrable level of opiate isnt the same as negating any chance of an OD. I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying merely the dangerous implication of someone less well read than yourself reading that initial post.

Does that make sense? Thanks for your input though and I agree with what you are saying but it was the incorrect implication of the original post that was so troubling to me personally ......

Your concern makes perfect sense to me.

I think those of us familiar with crOOk take for granted that he lives (or has lived: my understanding is that he's managed to clean up quite a bit) an extreme lifestyle and that nothing he does should be considered a recommendation for anyone else to follow suit. No one--least of all himself, I imagine--would recommend that following in his footsteps by taking a normally-lethal dose of opiate along with a stimulant should ever be done. He's previously described shooting multiple grams of 3-fpm or mdma in a single shot or in a succession of shots--but he certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone else do the same. In fact he's talked at length about the long-term consequences of his abuse including significant vascular damage and seemingly-permanent neuropathy.

All in all, he's a smart gentleman--as smart as any of the best of us on this forum--despite his incredibly reckless personal lifestyle. It's quite possible that familiarity breeds complacency, however, and he or we should be more vigilant about warning that his actions should not set an example for others.
[MENTION=63773]crOOk[/MENTION]: I also think it's worth considering that you missed part of the shot, if such a dose is as far above your comfortable limits as you say. That, or perhaps the high stimulant dose caused sufficient local vasoconstriction or changes in vascular permeability to partially prevent or at least slow the release of the entire dose into systemic circulation. Who knows. Stimulants do protect against opiate-induced respiratory depression, but I imagine that protection can only extend so far (a true and selective respiratory stimulant would likely be far more effective.). Either way, I'm sure you agree that speedballs are high risk behaviors even when you avoid short-acting stimulants like cocaine or methylphenidate.

 

[ColonelPanic]

Smoking everything doesn't cause cancer. Its been found that organic tobacco doesn't cause cancer.

No it hasn't.

It is due to the pesticides in it. I don't have any websites or studies...

Quelle fucking surprise

...but have come across a few books speaking on the topic with proof.

No you haven't, you've either made it up or misinterpreted it. Books making it to print says nothing about their legitimacy. Cancer-free combustion?! Do you have any idea how significant a discovery that would be?

After reading about it, it made sense that the cancer causing properties don't come from a natural growing plant.

Impeccable logic. The very notion of a deadly plant....Chronic paralysis of the Cilia from a heavy, albeit organic, smoking habit? what next? Mushrooms that are deadly poisonous? Free radicals just flying through the air willy-nilly?! Or maybe you're one of those scientifically illiterate hippies who think smoking weed either cures or treats cancer because in a lab some very specific extract was injected in to a tumor cell.

It is never wise to speak with authority when you're basically guessing.

 

[smackydowners]

dear sirs what do you think about swallowing it rather than sniffing? or two at the same time? whats the difference between those two in effects? ive tried sniffing it long time ago but my nose gets full quickly and all next doses would either drop or just stay there sticked to previous dose of powder which sticked to my nose instead of going further to the throat (maybe except the first one/first two.)

ive got some coming

vape it off foil like you would heroin, it vapes so clean that if you stop halfway through a chase, when you go back, it can be really hard to spot! it also produces the btter rush (except maybe IV but i aint tried).

just dump 15ish mg ona bit of good foil (dull side up), heat from underneath with a low flame to avoid burning it, and inhale the smoke through a 3 inch cut up straw. this is probably the most popular and pleasant way to take it, and probably the safest as it comes on almost immediately so impatience wont cause you to redose.

 

[InterestingFACT]

vape it off foil like you would heroin, it vapes so clean that if you stop halfway through a chase, when you go back, it can be really hard to spot! it also produces the btter rush (except maybe IV but i aint tried).

just dump 15ish mg ona bit of good foil (dull side up), heat from underneath with a low flame to avoid burning it, and inhale the smoke through a 3 inch cut up straw. this is probably the most popular and pleasant way to take it, and probably the safest as it comes on almost immediately so impatience wont cause you to redose.

This is terrible advice.

You shouldn't recommend vaping this substance. It is terribly addictive via that method.

 

[smackydowners]

This is terrible advice.

You shouldn't recommend vaping this substance. It is terribly addictive via that method.

i wouldnt say that. and its much safer than snorting or eating it as you can titrate doses better. its real hard on the nose, and oral caues gastric distress