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2Cs and insnufflation pain. The chemistry?

Could be due to reactive oxidation. I have no idea about the chemistry but if you look at the chemicals people claim hurt to snort: Ethylphenidate has a partially exposed acetic acid group, 2Cs have 2 methoxy groups, MDMA has a Methylenedioxy ring.

2-FMA and Amphetamine have 0 oxygens in them and people describe them as less painful. Obviously 4-FA doesn't fit this pattern but the location of the fluorine atom could create an uneven electron charge distribution interfering with the usually hydrophobic properties of the benzene ring.

Just a theory.
 
cannibalsnail said:
Could be due to reactive oxidation. I have no idea about the chemistry but if you look at the chemicals people claim hurt to snort: Ethylphenidate has a partially exposed acetic acid group, 2Cs have 2 methoxy groups, MDMA has a Methylenedioxy ring.

2-FMA and Amphetamine have 0 oxygens in them and people describe them as less painful. Obviously 4-FA doesn't fit this pattern but the location of the fluorine atom could create an uneven electron charge distribution interfering with the usually hydrophobic properties of the benzene ring.

Just a theory.
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4-FA is very uncomfortable to snort
 
thought it has to do with how lipophillic/lipophobic a substance it. personally, adderall doesnt burn one bit, meth is supposed to burn like a mother. 2c-i was the only drug i snorted water to try to make it stop. ambien hurts like a bitch, but not as bad. 4-fa hurts quite a bit, more than adderall but less than 2c-i. also, i heard that 2c-b HCl hurts more than 2c-b HBr. can anyone confirm this?

edit: forgot mdpv. no burn at all. also, extremely lipophillic
 
Dmytry said:
thought it has to do with how lipophillic/lipophobic a substance it. personally, adderall doesnt burn one bit, meth is supposed to burn like a mother. 2c-i was the only drug i snorted water to try to make it stop. ambien hurts like a bitch, but not as bad. 4-fa hurts quite a bit, more than adderall but less than 2c-i. also, i heard that 2c-b HCl hurts more than 2c-b HBr. can anyone confirm this?

edit: forgot mdpv. no burn at all. also, extremely lipophillic
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adderall is a mixture of amphetamine and fillers. pure amphetamine/very strong street amphetamine really burns bad like mephedrone

when this strong street speed was cut with glucose it no longer had the same painful burn even though it was still potent.
 
I can vouch that 2c-e has the worst burn of any drug I have evr put up my nose. And I have snorted everything from crystal meth to 4-mec
 
I highly doubt its due to "acidity". The protonated amine is a very weak acid... I don't have pKa values off the top of my head, but look at something like ammonium chloride -- it is to acids what sodium bicarbonate is to bases, just a terribly weak mofo.
 
Of all the 2C's, 2C-P seems to be the worst, and I mean IT BURNS AT LEAST TWICE AS MUCH AS 2C-E. Knowing that the only difference between them is a propyl instead of an ethyl group, does this tell us anything about what determines how much a substance burns?
 
5HToInfinity said:
Of all the 2C's, 2C-P seems to be the worst, and I mean IT BURNS AT LEAST TWICE AS MUCH AS 2C-E. Knowing that the only difference between them is a propyl instead of an ethyl group, does this tell us anything about what determines how much a substance burns?
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ha, that's strange. My 2c-p burns WAY less than my 2c-e. Must be something to do with the synth method because my 2c-p is a straight powder like normal 2c's and my 2c-e is an almost crystalline powder, insulation-looking, with sparklyness all in it.
 
bloodshed344 said:
ha, that's strange. My 2c-p burns WAY less than my 2c-e. Must be something to do with the synth method because my 2c-p is a straight powder like normal 2c's and my 2c-e is an almost crystalline powder, insulation-looking, with sparklyness all in it.
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Are you sure you have good 2C-P? How many mg do you have to take for an adequate trip?
 
Perhaps vasoconstriction from activation of 5-HT2abc receptors can cause pain and localised irritation? Explaining why serotonergic drugs (MDMA, meth, 2ce) burn more than non-.

But again thats a wild ass guess... for all I know there's some common ion channel like TRPV1 or something that is activated by 2c-e, 2c-p etc
 
Well, perhaps the 2,4,5- substitution leads to more pain than 3,4,5- I doubt anyone has experience of snorting both TMA and TMA-2 to comment.
 
5HToInfinity said:
Are you sure you have good 2C-P? How many mg do you have to take for an adequate trip?
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Yes I'm sure it's good. 2c-p is my favorite 2c. As for dose never above 20 mg.


To Vader, snorting allylescaline burnt way less than 2c's. In fact it had a refreshing winterfresh type burn.
 
bloodshed344 said:
Yes I'm sure it's good. 2c-p is my favorite 2c. As for dose never above 20 mg.


To Vader, snorting allylescaline burnt way less than 2c's. In fact it had a refreshing winterfresh type burn.
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You certainly don't have pure 2C-P. 2C-P is massively overwhelming at 16mg ingested orally.
 
5HToInfinity said:
You certainly don't have pure 2C-P. 2C-P is massively overwhelming at 16mg ingested orally.
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Hahaha. Stop being hilarious. I know how strong it is... I have friends that have done it as well from this batch and it is the proper strength.

Maybe I just like to trip harder than you, or maybe my tolerance is higher than yours?
Just because you read some fucking number on the internet doesn't mean you know everything.

I like to push the dose high for all psychedelics that I'm comfortable with. 20 mg of 2c-p can make me trip harder than any amount of 2c-e (under 80 mg at least). Phenethylamines don't make me 'trip' like most people. Tryptamines I have a bit more normal dose compared to other people.
 
bloodshed344 said:
Hahaha. Stop being hilarious. I know how strong it is... I have friends that have done it as well from this batch and it is the proper strength.

Maybe I just like to trip harder than you, or maybe my tolerance is higher than yours?
Just because you read some fucking number on the internet doesn't mean you know everything.

I like to push the dose high for all psychedelics that I'm comfortable with. 20 mg of 2c-p can make me trip harder than any amount of 2c-e (under 80 mg at least). Phenethylamines don't make me 'trip' like most people. Tryptamines I have a bit more normal dose compared to other people.
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Not trying to be hilarious or despondent, just connecting the dots. Unusually large dosing preference + no sting whatsoever is good reason to believe you may have impure material.
 
5HToInfinity said:
Not trying to be hilarious or despondent, just connecting the dots. Unusually large dosing preference + no sting whatsoever is good reason to believe you may have impure material.
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^ He said it burns way less than 2C-E, not no burn at all. Considering how badly 2C-E burns that's a huge difference.

For me 2C-E burns horribly bad, even 1-2mg amounts sting significantly. When I placed some 2C-P on my tongue I got what seemed like a chemical burn that took at least a day or two to fade, with just 1-2mg or so, so I expected the burn from snorting it to be horrendous. However I recently tried snorting 0.5mg amounts of 2C-P, I believe I snorted 4-5 x 0.5mg over the course of an hour or two, to boost another high, and there was no noticeable sting at this amount. I think even 0.5mg of 2C-E would sting a fair bit given that 1mg did, and as such I'd conclude that actually for me 2C-P stings less than 2C-E too.

For reference my 2C-P is certainly good quality and just 8mg oral had me tripping very very strongly. I later dosed I believe 12mg though I can't quite remember, and it was rather overwhelming, but just about controllable.

I'm pretty sure that there are a wide variety of reasons a substance can be an irritant or corrosive, and as such, I don't think we should be looking for a blanket.

I found a good list of examples of things that can be corrosive on Wikipedia:
Common corrosive chemicals are classified into:
Acids
Strong acids — the most common are sulfuric acid, nitric acid and hydrochloric acid (H2SO4, HNO3 and HCl, respectively).
Some concentrated weak acids, for example formic acid and acetic acid
Strong Lewis acids such as anhydrous aluminum chloride and boron trifluoride
Lewis acids with specific reactivity, e.g. solutions of zinc chloride
Bases
Caustics or alkalis, such as sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and potassium hydroxide (KOH)
Alkali metals in the metallic form (e.g. elemental sodium), and hydrides of alkali and alkaline earth metals, such as sodium hydride, function as strong bases and hydrate to give caustics
Extremely strong bases (superbases) such as alkoxides, metal amides (e.g. sodium amide) and organometallic bases such as butyllithium
Some concentrated weak bases, such as ammonia when anhydrous or in a concentrated solution
Dehydrating agents such as concentrated sulfuric acid, phosphorus pentoxide, calcium oxide, anhydrous zinc chloride, also elemental alkali metals
Strong oxidizers such as concentrated hydrogen peroxide
Electrophilic halogens: elemental fluorine, chlorine, bromine and iodine, and electrophilic salts such as sodium hypochlorite or N-chloro compounds such as chloramine-T;[1] halide ions are not corrosive, except for fluoride
Organic halides and organic acid halides such as acetyl chloride and benzyl chloroformate
Acid anhydrides
Alkylating agents such as dimethyl sulfate
Some organic materials such as phenol ("carbolic acid")
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Many irritants have the same criteria.

It's also interesting to note that irritants and corrosive substances can cause GI discomfort, likely the explanation for why some people find the 2Cs for example to have some kind of negative bodyload. This might also explain why when I tried snorting a small amount of 3C-P I experienced no burn whatsoever, and I also experienced no real GI discomfort, other than for 2-3 minutes during the come up which was likely caused by hunger rather than anything else, as eating chocolate got rid of it.
 
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