2c-e tolerance situation question

[Nateup]

Hello there!

SHORT VERSION FOR LAZY READERS FIRST - After two small doses of 2c-e, two days in a row (first an allergy test of <1mg, the second a "threshold dose" of 6mg)... would a deep full-blown, 15-20 mg-e trip the next day be nulled or dulled? Would the depth and insight of the experience be lessened (this is his main purpose for these experiences. Effect on the visuals?

This is only my second post in these fantabulous forums. First I just want to say "thank you" for this wealth of information. This site has been extremely useful for me and countless others. Thank you for not getting so caught up in the structure (ridiculously strict rules, [clears throat... drugs-forum comes to mind] to the point of obsession - that much is lost. It really shows that you are hear to learn and help... not to compete like its some sort of ridiculous sport. So much wasted potential in those types of forums. THANK YOU.

Now for my question:
A very close friend of mine is experimenting with 2c-e for the first time, for spiritual healing purposes. This is why he uses any of these chemical "tools". (not that he doesnt enjoy the process)
The question is related to tolerance. Saturday, for his birthday, he engaged a very therapeutic lsd + mdma session to great results. His dosages were 1.5 "hits" of fairly strong blotter (suspected to be roughly around 100 ug each square, but he is not pretending to know for sure), and a total of 300 mg of mdma throughout the day. He felt great the next day, although a bit tired (after 4 hours of sleep).
Two days later (Monday), he decided to do an allergy test (<1mg) with no poor reaction. He actually felt some slight mood elevation, but could be placebo or lingering afterglow from the "candy flip" (as Ive heard it called) 2 days prior. The next day (tuesday - yesterday), he took a larger dose of 6 mg. After 1.5 hours he began to feel a nice euphoria which increased and continued for 4-5 hours and sort of lingered on until sleep. There were no serious visuals present for this session, although there was some brightening of colors, slight trails, and a bit of waving of objects. surprisingly he seemed to get virtually no close-eyed visuals, only the slightest open-eyed. He experienced some nausea - actually more than expected at this low a dose. Focusing on the euphoria seemed to suppress the nausea. The euphoria was the most pronounced effect, which seems to be "in line" with other's claims of euphoria at lower doses. It was slightly mdma-like, but less "pushy", and in some ways more enjoyable.
My question is: If he was to go for a more full-blown experience today (15-20 mg), would it be a waste of material? His only concern is the candy flip saturday, the 2c-e allergy test monday, then the "threshold trip" tuesday causing a tolerance that will interfere with a potential 2c-e trip today. He does not feel "ate up" at all today (or at all this week). He would be inclined to think that such small doses the days prior would not have much, if any effect on a trip today... but he would like your "enlightened" feedback.

Thank you so much in advance. Sometime, in another post, I will discuss the astronomical benefits and knowledge he has gained from these experiences. You really are helping an individual by providing this appreciated information... much more than you are probably even imagining!

 

[sekio]

would a deep full-blown, 15-20 mg-e trip the next day be nulled or dulled? Would the depth and insight of the experience be lessened (this is his main purpose for these experiences.

Probably to some extent. Wait 2 or 3 days and you'll have no problems.

 

[Nateup]

He wasn't sure "how it works" with 2c-xx because he has never had an opportunity for the possibility for multiple days in a row with that class. He knows the way it works with lsd, but wasn't sure how it compares in a situation like this.

When you say 2, would you mean skip a day? I realize 3 would be better... but would he have a good first real trip with 1 day off? Its a matter of work schedule really. Neither of these previous two days were real trips. The first was only allergy check, the second was very threshold at 6 mg. Of course there was the candy flip this past weekend - would you think there would be any cross tolerance between the 2c-e and the lsd+mdma combo? Would any of those factors interfere with a real trip the day after next (from the threshold 6 mg day - yesterday).

Sorry if I seem pushy at all with these questions. I just want to get him some insight on this so he gets maximum therapeutic potential from the medicine, and therefore makes progress.

I did use the search engine, but was not able to find answers that match my situation. Thank you.

 

[any major dude]

regardless of the dose, there's going to be some tolerance for at least 3-5 days. Of course this can be overcome by dosing higher, but there's really no way to know how much more to dose to compensate other than experience. I'd just wait til next weekend or the next time you have a day or two off.

If you go ahead, i'd definitely stay below 20mg, regardless of the previous dose. I'm thinking around 15-18 would be more than enough for someone with mild tolerance. Usually i'd recommend a first real dose be in the 10-12mg range

 

[IamMe90]

regardless of the dose, there's going to be some tolerance for at least 3-5 days. Of course this can be overcome by dosing higher, but there's really no way to know how much more to dose to compensate other than experience. I'd just wait til next weekend or the next time you have a day or two off.

If you go ahead, i'd definitely stay below 20mg, regardless of the previous dose. I'm thinking around 15-18 would be more than enough for someone with mild tolerance. Usually i'd recommend a first real dose be in the 10-12mg range

interesting, i would suggest 10-12mg for a first timer as well to "ease into" the effects of 2c-e, especially if the person isn't hugely experienced with psychedelics in general, but i would definitely not call 10-12 a "real" dose lol. two friends taht had never tripped before and i went to a concert on 10mg 2c-e and it was like a slightly visual roll. that's the kind of dose i use to augment concerts and what not.. not too introspective. but i suppose YMMV

 

[Nateup]

I suppose some of the following information would have been helpful:

Psychedelic Experience: He has tripped hundreds of times since 1998 - mostly LSD and MDMA (he realized mdma is not technically a psychedelic, but he uses it as one and it simply is in those situations)... and many times both together (candy flip) with different timings and quantity combinations - he has also tried 2c-b a couple times, mda, mde, PMA (yes the famous "double stack" mitsubishi tablets from 2001), DXM, ketamine, Tiletamine, psylocybin mushrooms, and many other... not so useful "shallow drugs" as he calls them.
He has also delved pretty deep into his psyche using nitrous oxide as a tool - both alone and in combination with mdma, DXM, ketamine, or other substances - all to great results. He has since greatly reduced his nitrous oxide consumptions - he developed addiction issues with this substance that corrupted the "work". This is really a shame and he still struggles with this lost potential. As much as he wishes he had used nitrous responsibly (always as a psychedelic) he didn't - he slipped down the slope, mutating it into the "hippy crack" that it is commonly known as. Now he has to leave it behind to some extent.

Physical: He is 29 years old, '5-11 - weighs 160 lbs, and has a pretty fast metabolism... really fast actually. He has a chronic back problem and related opiate dependency which requires him to dose 35 mg of methadone every day. Aside from infinite other life lessons that he gains from his therapeutic psychedelic sessions, his main purpose is the astronomical benefits and progress that he gains regarding his back and opiate dependency. He has made most of the progress that he has made with his back, through the use of psychedelics. He has successfully driven his methadone dose down from 120 mg to 35 mg through the responsible use of psychedelics.

 

[Nateup]

OK, update - He didn't end up consuming the 2c-e the next day, however...

He now has another question/predicament that is somewhat similar to his original, yet slightly different specifically and therefor unique to some extent. He consumed a very tiny, pretty much sub-threshold dose yesterday for a family get together (a funeral) - it was low enough that he got no definite effect (1-3 mg, basically allergy test level). He seemed to have a slightly elevated mood and clarity, but that is it... and it was a level that could easily have been placebo. He had no visuals or euphoria... although colors did seem ever so slightly brighter (easily placebo). The dose was actually just him licking up the residue from the tools he used to load a capsule for today. It may have even been less than 1-3 mg.

He wonders if he would be able to reach full-visual trip levels today with a much larger dose... say 15-20 mg? He did not trip yesterday, but wonders if that tiny level allergy test dose would cause significant tolerance to a full trip the next day.

Thank you so much for your time. I realize this is similar to my original question in this thread, but it differs just enough that I don't have an answer.

 

[Nateup]

~update update

1 hour after ingestion of 15 mg, he is definitely feeling effects more than expected. Slight visuals starting to manifest, strong body sensation... the uneasy comeup that others have mentioned, but not as bad as expected. Just dosed his daily 34 mg methadone 2.5 hours prior, so surely that has some effect here. His daily methadone dose does not provide him any real opiate high at all... although he does feel a "warm relief" shortly after his dose, which would be expected.
I will keep you posted on his progress.

 

[Penthos]

When I dosed close together this past week I found the tolerance, as far as intensity goes, to be a non-issue. However (and I know this will be laughed at) I have a strong feeling that having all of my brain chemistry back to baseline before dosing again would've smoothed everything out immensely. I plan to test this theory later this month.

I did 8, 14, and 17.5mg within 5 days of each other and by the third, 17.5mg trip it just felt so chemical-ly. Less psychedelic and more oppressively intoxicating.

 

[twelvesevndi]

^^ i think thats part of what people talk about when they talk about tolerance...part of it is the lack of 'magic' but yes i think also coupled with an increase in the dosage needed to feel physical effects.


ive tried to dose two days in a row and noticed decreased headspace, body, visuals, and general psychedelia as well as decreased side effects. i started with the same initial dose and added in two 10 mg doses at 3 and 4.5 hr and still never quite got there.

so i've found that at least consecutive days you need to increase the dosage quite a bit and with 2c-e, because of the dose-response function, imo its too risky to ever be worth it.

 

[Solipsis]

I think the small allergy test shouldn't produce significant tolerance but I would be reserved in choosing my dose just to be sure. All this complex tolerance combined with a very steep dose-response curve is asking for unexpected results.
And it sounds like this person is using the 2C-E inappropriately and I have to suggest slowing down... at this rate it might get old quickly and I'm not even talking about the risks over overdoing it with powerful psychedelics.

 

[Nateup]

What seems inappropriate about this? Maybe you are talking about this second to last post that was not mine.

My person has only tripped on 2c-e this one time - yesterday. The day before that, he did a tiny amount to try and ultra-low dose as a cognitive enhancer as others have mentioned. It worked out fine and he did notice some benefits. The first two low doses he tried were 2 weeks before. He started at 1mg, then 6mg, then stopped and waited two weeks following others recommendations. Now he has experienced a full trip once, so I don't really know what you are talking about "inappropriate usage". As I said, maybe you are talking about the post one or two above from someone else... but there would be no way for me to know that since you did not specify. OK I'm thinking you must be talking about this other person since ALL of my person's usage of psychedelics is for (just about as) "appropriate" reasons (as it gets)... what ever anyone's definition of appropriate usage is. He has made tremendous progress in various areas of his life through the usage of these tools, and he takes them extremely seriously. Some of that info is actually outlined in this thread a few posts back.

Now, as for yesterday - It actually worked out very nicely. From my last post on, things became extremely intense - in a good way - although there are things about this chemical (at least this experience) that he is not completely fond of (very speedy - almost twitchy). He experienced some pretty strong ego loss... although it sort of eased up on him and was oddly not startling at all... even at first. He felt pretty strong euphoria, had mind-bending visuals that (As others have mentioned) seemed sort of tryptamine-ish in nature... some of them at least. I don't want to use the space here to do a full trip report, likely in the wrong section, but on this subject, the only thing that seemed to be an effect of tolerance (possibly from the tiny dose day before - possibly from other recent experiences) was that it really died down at around 4-5 hours. Intensity was very extreme, but it didnt seem to last like others experiences. A small amount of cannabis brought it back strong for another hour or so.

All in all, he had an amazing experience - one of the most powerful and interesting of his life. Next time he will wait quite a while after other experiences to engage in another 2c-e experience. He was very glad he started out tiny a few weeks ago and gradually and APPROPRIATELY worked his way up, because man was it intense. It was a bit speedy and nauseating to be his personal fav, and he hasn't yet experienced mind-blowing insights yet (these sometimes come the next day or even a few days after as integration), but that may be related to recent experiences that he would wait longer after in future sessions.

Thank you for reading and providing information to help him with his therapeutic progress. I can't even begin to express how valuable these experiences are to him.

 

[Nateup]

by the way, both he and I have already read all of those faqs and used many search engines. If the specific information from people's experiences had been found in those searches, I obviously would not have posted these questions. I would never just post a question that is specifically answered or even could be accurately inferred from the information within.

Did you even read all the posts here?

 

[djcloud9]

regardless of the dose, there's going to be some tolerance for at least 3-5 days. Of course this can be overcome by dosing higher, but there's really no way to know how much more to dose to compensate other than experience. I'd just wait til next weekend or the next time you have a day or two off.

If you go ahead, i'd definitely stay below 20mg, regardless of the previous dose. I'm thinking around 15-18 would be more than enough for someone with mild tolerance. Usually i'd recommend a first real dose be in the 10-12mg range

Yes swim feel the same way, for this has been swim experience over the last 3-4 days.

Swim to dosed an allergy dose, then a 10mg the second day, and yesterday started with 10mg then kept uping it, but would never really get there guys!

I would take "any major dude's" advice!