2c-d

[hawaii]

Anyone experienced with this?
Any combo experience with Ketamine?

I read that people used to take 2C-B to enhance and remember more vivedly the K experience.
Is that the same with 2C-D?

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I haven't used it but I can vouch for using psyches to enhance the k experience, or using k to enhance the psyche experience, however you want to look at it.
I wouldn't say psyches allow you to better remember your k experience, more that you require less k to get a very powerful experience so you're able to remember more.
I use weed in the same way to remember my holes

 

[Deinonychus]

It's fuckin great. People have taken Shulgin's 'psychedelic tofu' comment to mean that 2C-D is unworthy of use, you can see this by looking at the market. How many times have you seen it for sale? Right. Not many time I expect.

It is perfectly balanced between being inward-oriented and all about the self like 2C-B and being more outward-looking and coldly logical like 2C-E. Really good stuff for a beginner, and yet there's tons of value there for experienced trippers as well.

The dosages are a point of contention. I think people are underwhelmed by this stuff much like they are underwhelmed by 2C-C, another true fucking gem, because they don't take enough. For 2C-D you're looking at at least 50 mg, minimum, I suggest more like 70 or if you can handle psychedelic states in a confident way then go for broke and take a hundred. I've taken it up to 120 mg and I intend fully to push higher, to 150 and up, the dosages mentioned as 'fully psychedelic' by a German doctor mentioned in PIHKaL. That's a rather ambiguous statement, it's plenty psychedelic at 50 mg, but the dose response curve seems to actually level out between 50 and 100 mg.

In other words unlike say 2C-E, doubling the 'ordinary dose' does not multiply the effects into reckless-land. Instead it gets a lot stronger between 30 and 50 and then if you want more effects than than you gotta go a lot higher.

Returning to 2C-C, this is another where dose issues crop up and people find it underwhelming. Is take at least 80 mg, where as I see reports of 'little interest' at like less than half that.

It's worth pointing out that I'm not advocating that high doses of everything are the way to go. Instead these two chemicals are specifically thought to suck, and they are the opposite of sucking, and I think dose issues are the answer.

Basically, you'll have a great time. I think you can have an awesome time even without any ketamine. But obviously ketamine would be good too.

2C-B is more directly entactogenic, so if you're looking for the heightened body sensations then go for the B, 2C-D is more cerebral and less touchy.

 

[hawaii]

Wow great! Thanks for your detailed reply.
Also, 2C-D is legal, right?

 

[Solipsis]

Wow great! Thanks for your detailed reply.
Also, 2C-D is legal, right?

It depends on where you live. If you live on Hawaii, then no:

2C-D became a Schedule I Controlled Substance in the United States as of July 9, 2012, with the signing of S. 3187 into law by President Barack Obama.
On a state level, both Oklahoma and Pennsylvania list 2C-D under schedule I.

I due time this will be merged into our central thread where you can read about people's experiences, ideas and opinions, or I can make this a combination subthread if you want. If you want to have your own thread here for a while I ask of you that you make it about a nice question that warrants discussion.
(Because otherwise answers can be found doing searches and in the following places

Current thread on 2C-D
Previous Thread

In the first post of those threads you can find links to among other things Erowid which has a great vault with info and reports.

 

[hawaii]

It depends on where you live. If you live on Hawaii, then no

I wish I live in Hawaii.
No I live in Europe.

PS: Yes, you can merge it, no problem.
I didn't find the original post with the search button.

 

[infantannihilator]

Yeah I think the major reason 2c-d isn't as popular is the required dose. Its priced very similarly to the other 2c's and people who are cost/value driven tend to shy away for this reason. Why spend x dollars on a half gram of 2c-d which will get you 4-6 solid trips (keeping around the 100mg dose) when you can spend x dollars and buy a half gram of 2c-e or 2c-i where you can get 25-30 solid trips (16-20mg dose)?

I mean, most of us here know why we would do so, but for those looking to get high at the cheapest price possible, and we know they exist, 2c-d quickly gets pushed to the foggy sidelines. Especially when you consider the tofu comment which some believe necessitates stacking with some other compound, further driving up the cost of your evening. I think the lack of reports and understanding further drives people away, not everyone wants to be a pioneer, they want a guaranteed good time.

I was reading Murple's report on 2c-t-2 and 2c-t-7 last night and he brought up a good point: a lot of people take Shulgin's word as gospel. I forget which of the two compounds it was, but shulgin mentions the body load is not worth it for one of the two, but surveys of users who took both in fact claim the exact opposite. There are those of us who seek out as much information as we can about particular substances, and there are those of us who look for a quick reference to a particular compound and make our judgement solely based on that. The latter of these look at the often vague and minimal reports contained in Pihkal and fail to take them with a grain of salt. I suspect these same people aren't necessarily the ones looking to explore different substances, but get really high and see cool shit.

I like how you brought up 2c-c, it is rarely ever talked about and in the time I have been here at least, I've yet to see it come up. Yet a look into erowids reports displays a lot of positivity towards this compound, and even more when it is combined with another 2c. Just based on those alone I am intrigued, but a look at pihkal's reference and you think "meh, doesn't sound that awesome." As you mentioned its a dose thing again, you need upwards of 50mg or more for a substantial trip, thats only 10 trips with a half gram, vs that 25-30 number.

Cost really shouldn't be a factor, but it comes up.

 

[Deinonychus]

Yeah I think the major reason 2c-d isn't as popular is the required dose. Its priced very similarly to the other 2c's and people who are cost/value driven tend to shy away for this reason. Why spend x dollars on a half gram of 2c-d which will get you 4-6 solid trips (keeping around the 100mg dose) when you can spend x dollars and buy a half gram of 2c-e or 2c-i where you can get 25-30 solid trips (16-20mg dose)?

Most definitely. I also feel like vendors tend to follow certain trends in the compounds that they have available. And when it was still legal to be selling a lot of the PEAs, it was the popular thing to do to sell 2C-I, E, and T-2. I very rarely saw other compounds than those come up, and I was rather intimately involved in the scene at the time so I should have had a relatively wide and relatively accurate view of what the market did contain.

I mean, most of us here know why we would do so, but for those looking to get high at the cheapest price possible, and we know they exist, 2c-d quickly gets pushed to the foggy sidelines. Especially when you consider the tofu comment which some believe necessitates stacking with some other compound, further driving up the cost of your evening. I think the lack of reports and understanding further drives people away, not everyone wants to be a pioneer, they want a guaranteed good time.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this concept of adding something else into the mix as specific to 2C-D. I assume that this derives from the analogy of tofu being relatively tasteless but should a flavorful component be added the tofu will absorb that flavor. First off the concept of 2C-D as 'pharmacological tofu' or whatever the actual specific quote from PIHKaL was is very ambiguous, and second the metaphor fails when you try and further the analogy in terms of the lack of flavor combined with a propensity for absorbing external flavors that tofu is known for.

I haven't actually ever combined it with anything, I shall have to try this as it is marvelous on its own and so I expect that it will be great when combined with other compounds. Usually when I'm mixing a PEA and a tryptamine I tend towards 2C-B, but perhaps I should try such a combination with this compound instead, or how about combining 2C-D with -B or -C itself? I wonder if anybody out there who has tried such a combination might see this thread and post as to what this combination was like. Meh, I guess I'll have to explore and find out for myself then, poor me hah right?

I was reading Murple's report on 2c-t-2 and 2c-t-7 last night and he brought up a good point: a lot of people take Shulgin's word as gospel. I forget which of the two compounds it was, but shulgin mentions the body load is not worth it for one of the two, but surveys of users who took both in fact claim the exact opposite. There are those of us who seek out as much information as we can about particular substances, and there are those of us who look for a quick reference to a particular compound and make our judgement solely based on that. The latter of these look at the often vague and minimal reports contained in Pihkal and fail to take them with a grain of salt. I suspect these same people aren't necessarily the ones looking to explore different substances, but get really high and see cool shit.

I think it is useful to acknowledge that there is always a recreational aspect to tripping no matter what other purposes you are using it for, personal enlightenment or solving a difficult psychological problem perhaps, not that you claimed otherwise. But all the same the distinction between people who are informed about their drug use and those who just use drugs in an ultimately ignorant hedonistic fashion (nothing wrong with hedonistic, ignorant on the other hand is not good) is very valid.

There is indeed a tendency to take Shulgin's work as gospel truth – this in the sense of the bible being 'perfect' according to some believers, free of any flaws. Nothing is perfect, whether we're discussing Shulgin's work or a religious text, and it's important to point out that he and his coterie of fellow experimenters – just like the authors of the gospels – are human, and subject therefor to human failings such as imprecision, retroactive alteration of memory, misunderstanding, and vagaries in their attempts to use descriptive language.

I contend that the real values of Shulgin's work are as follows, in no particular order: he tried to develop a framework within which you could apply scientific methods of gathering data to the infinitely subjective nature of the deeply personal experience of tripping, he worked to explore the wide variety of structural motifs that can be derived from the basic molecules of phenethylamine and tryptamine, he collected the available information on those compounds as well as chemicals initially characterized by others (such as the resolved isomers of DOI, method by Nichols) into two volumes, he included a wide variety of synthetic techniques that are infinitely useful to the clandestine chemist, and he made the sum total of the information about the various chemicals that he collected popularly available. Some people might say that popularizing the PEAs and tryptamines in the XIHKaL books was a bad thing, as it ultimately made their use more prevalent and thus indirectly lead to their being banned, but I would counter that by pointing out how many people may have been saved from awful, terrifying overdoses or even fatal overdoses or combinations of the drugs listed in those two books because of the dosing guidelines and all the rest of the relevant information that they otherwise may not have had access to.

I like how you brought up 2c-c, it is rarely ever talked about and in the time I have been here at least, I've yet to see it come up. Yet a look into erowids reports displays a lot of positivity towards this compound, and even more when it is combined with another 2c. Just based on those alone I am intrigued, but a look at pihkal's reference and you think "meh, doesn't sound that awesome." As you mentioned its a dose thing again, you need upwards of 50mg or more for a substantial trip, thats only 10 trips with a half gram, vs that 25-30 number.

I have a rather overly-long trip report of my first experience with 2C-C from a month or two ago here. I find that the majority of reports with this compound, as with 2C-D to a lesser extent, are underwhelming because of dosing issues. I think that it's worth pointing out that while these compounds may indeed be wonderful when mixed with other things, they both stand on their own, being fully psychedelic and equally powerful in their own right as their more well-known brethren.

Cost really shouldn't be a factor, but it comes up.

Alas, we do not have the infinite funds for the infinite drugs. Such is life!

 

[audiopium]

^ Well-articulated points here, on target all the way. These compounds sound fascinating, and despite the cost and difficulty of tracking them down, I find myself further drawn toward seeking them out and exploring them...

 

[Solipsis]

Some off-topic suggestions on forum guidelines and policies were moved to the reinstated Feedback Thread here.

Carry on.

 

[Bahamut]

I thought that 2c-d was a really wonderful PEA.

Started with a dose of 50mgs which gave me a nice feel for it but like Deinonychus said once you get around 100mgs it really start's to shine, the highest I ever got was 150mg and that was an amazing trip. It was very visual at that level and deep, lot's of swirly patterns and whatnot. The duration was a big plus in my book, because sometimes you just want a shorter one. I'd guess it could be considered pricey compared to most of the other 2c-x's because of the higher dosage amount, but it was still well worth it.

Never had the chance to combine it with Ketamine, which I'm sure is great. Ketamine mixes well with most substances in my experience. But I have combined it with Methylone before and had a really good time. The dose's were 75mgs 2c-d and 200mgs of Methylone. I ended up taking the 2c-d about one hour before I took the M1, when I was peaking on the Methylone I couldn't do much more then sit on the couch grinning my face off. It really puddled me, it seemed like the combo had a lot of synergy and that it made the roll seem to last longer. But that could just be from time distortion due to the fact I was tripping face. I'd highly suggest this combo to people that enjoy candy flipping in hindsight, it was extremely pleasurable.

Well that's all I've got about 2c-d for now, take it easy everyone.

 

[What 23]

2C-E was too powerful at the doses I used it at, to direct it myself. Not that is wasn't useful. I learned to deal better with chronic pain I was having at the time after using it.

2C-D allowed me more "control". Definitely useful. Went deep. Saw symbols all over my skin. The only time that that happened like that, though phens and psych amps have a tendency to form symbols and letters in things, or symbols and letters take on new life.

Also, although I notice this on a lot of psychs, the synchronicity was clearly evident.

Ah, but this is about combining with K, and I have no idea.

 

[Deinonychus]

^^ It's definitely an easy one to control. I'd say that this would be an ideal compound for somebody's first introduction into PEAs, just like miprocin is an ideal starting point for tryptamines. Both are inherently easy to control and have friendly, inviting natures, yet at the same time they can both get pretty powerful when the dose is ramped up, and thus they're no less valuable to a psychedelic veteran.

 

[lightforce]

I'll have to try this soon. 2C-B is one of my favourites.

And ketamine is like a side dish for a meal, even though the main dish is excellent the side dish makes it complete. If 2C-B is a burger, Ketamine would be the fries that go along with it. I always make sure I have ketamine when tripping or doing pretty much any drug.

 

[BlueHues]

There is indeed a tendency to take Shulgin's work as gospel truth – this in the sense of the bible being 'perfect' according to some believers, free of any flaws. Nothing is perfect, whether we're discussing Shulgin's work or a religious text, and it's important to point out that he and his coterie of fellow experimenters – just like the authors of the gospels – are human, and subject therefor to human failings such as imprecision, retroactive alteration of memory, misunderstanding, and vagaries in their attempts to use descriptive language.

^Thank you for this! A lot of people have known about Shulgin and his work going back for quite some time, but among a lot of younger people these days, he's almost treated like a saint or minor deity! He's brilliant, and contributed far more to the world than I'd ever be capable, but he's not the second coming of Jesus, he's only human....

 

[Deinonychus]

^^ I'm just not a fan of overly-reductive nonsense like this. A perfect example besides that listed above is the 'Shulgin vs. Nichols' argument which crops up from time to time, like there can only be one person who's work has contributed to our knowledge of psychedelics. It doesn't work that way, everything happens within a larger context, so trying to shit on Shulgin like 'he didn't actually discover X Y and Z, Nichols did' is pointless (this specifically came up a few months ago) because within the larger context of the field it doesn't *matter* who invented it, scientists or academics borrow from eachother all the time and their work on a subject is based off of the consolidated knowledge that has already been sussed out by other people. Shulgin did valuable work on the subjective effects of psychedelics, but he's no neuroscientist; Nichols has elucidated the mechanisms behind the action of psychedelics, but he's not (publicly) interested in cataloging their subjective effects in man. And they've both invented compounds that make you trip balls. So what does it matter?

Their approaches are not the same, they are complementary, and that's okay, not everything has to be reduced down to a single preeminent figure or a single most important datapoint. It's human nature to classify things and categorize things, and it's human nature to place things within a hierarchy. The problems occur when people take that classifying/categorizing impulse too far, such that hierarchies can only have one occupant at any given level. That's silly and people ought to try not to do it.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Still not a clue where the 'tofu' aspect of 2C-D comes in. It is a fully valid and wonderful psychedelic for me at the 40mg-50mg range. I'd even be willing to take it up to 70mg or so. Based on how hard I tripped on 60mg 2C-C (which is mostly equipotent with 2C-D) I suspect it would be a great night.

 

[Deinonychus]

Yeah I don't know about that either. The closest thing I can think of is that it refers to the ease with which it can be self directed, but that's a pretty oblique reference if you ask me.

 

[Hanniba1]

I've only had my hands on the stuff once. I bought 100 mg and dosed it all at once. I absolutely loved the effects, it was incredibly psychedelic. I remember at one point I was lying on my bed thinking of nothing except I was just laughing like I was peaking on some good LSD. It was an absolute blast, except for one thing.... I had one of the worst stomach aches I've ever had in my life, it was very painful at times. I hope to get my hands on more and do some further experimentation as I loved everything aside from the stomach ache.