25X-NBOMe Freebase --> Salt Conversion?

[TheAppleCore]

HCl seems like the preferable acid for conversion, for a couple reasons:

1) All of the commercially available samples of 25X-NBOMe that I've come across have been either freebase or hydrochloride salts. There has to be a good reason for this. :D

2) HCl is volatile, so if I accidentally add a slight excess to my 25X solution, I can simply evaporate it at room temp. to obtain pure 25X-NBOMe HCl. This is a definite plus for me, as my measurements are going to be less than perfect (I don't exactly have a home lab).


My only problem is that, where I'm from, the only locally available hydrochloric acid is in the form of something called "muriatic acid" which obviously is dyed or adulterated in some way, seen by the neon yellow hue.

The question is, what are some decent alternative reactants for 25X-NBOMe freebase-to-salt conversion? Acetic acid is ruled out; someone over in PD reported that the acetate of 25I had a hard time dissolving in water, and I need to make a water solution.

 

[Cortexiphan]

You could try making the oxalate salt, although I have no clue about the aqueous solubility

 

[Indole]

Look up the MSDS for muriatic acid, I'm pretty sure there are no dying agents used. That neon yellow color is due to how concentrated the solution is, is over 10 M. Which also means you'd have to dilute it down if you want to use it for salting.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Hmm, maybe I'll have to reconsider muriatic.

Which also means you'd have to dilute it down if you want to use it for salting.

Just curious, why would I have to dilute it? And how much would I have to dilute?

 

[nuke]

I've got to ask.. what's the logic in converting the freebase to the salt?

 

[TheAppleCore]

From what I understand, the NBOMe phenethylamines are very hydrophobic in freebase form, which makes them very difficult to dose, because they won't absorb through the mucous membranes of the mouth, gums, nose, or rectum. You also can't smoke the freebase. Basically, the freebase is useless as a drug. (Unless "complexed" by HPBCD or some similar compound.)

 

[Indole]

^ Hmm, maybe I'll have to reconsider muriatic.



Just curious, why would I have to dilute it? And how much would I have to dilute?

Well muriatic acid that you typically get at a hardware store is 31.45% HCl. How much freebase are you trying to convert? You should run your numbers to make sure you are only adding about 1 equivalent of acid. You might destroy the compound if you use excess.

 

[MattPsy]

Nah, i've made it with 3 molar excess and it was fine.
Anyway, try the citrate salt.

Use an excess of freebase drug, you can then easily separate it on the basis of solubility.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Thanks. I also have some food grade fumaric acid lying around -- would the fumarate be equally viable for my purposes?

 

[flaming]

If by "your purposes" you mean sale and consumption, then yes, it's going to be fine. You must remember to account for the extra molecular weight from the fumaric acid when dosing though, and adjust your doses accordingly.

 

[TheAppleCore]

If by "your purposes" you mean sale and consumption

I just meant to refer to the conditions that I expressed in my topic post: that I needed to be able to work without any esoteric lab equipment, and that I needed a decently water-soluble final compound.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Just for the record, an equimolar quantity of citric acid (erring on the side of slight excess acidity) worked beautifully.

 

[psood0nym]

Well muriatic acid that you typically get at a hardware store is 31.45% HCl. How much freebase are you trying to convert? You should run your numbers to make sure you are only adding about 1 equivalent of acid. You might destroy the compound if you use excess.

Maybe that's what happened... I asked in an earlier incarnation of the "... pseudo advanced chemistry thread" about using hardware store muriatic acid to convert aMT freebase. Nothing was said about it destroying anything. I decided to convert a small amount to be safe, first, since I'd never done a conversion to an HCl. 100 mg of slightly yellowish freebase was put in a Pyrex baking pan, then I slowly added TransChem additive-less muriatic acid (~33% I think) until it was all dissolved. Then I put the oven at 170 F (aMT's boiling point isn't until 137 C so I thought it fine) and left it for an hour or so. When I returned there were evaporated pools, and the edges of the circular pools were dark grey. When I scraped it all up the color of the total mixture was light grey. I never tested it for activity, so I don't know if any of it really was destroyed, but I didn't like the looks of those dark grey edges (the whole point was to IM the aMT HCl). I never tried to convert anymore because of it. It did quickly dissolve in water, suggesting that whatever the dark grey stuff was was water soluble.

Any idea what was going on so that only the edges were grey like that? Is it likely HCl acid chemically destroyed some? Or is it possible that the aMT HCl is fine and just naturally a little grey because of whatever was making the freebase yellow (and darker deposits at the edges of pools is just normal because of natural accumulation there or something)?

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Maybe the heat led to an accelerated oxidization? I would try fan-drying it next time, at room temperature.

 

[skillet]

Or is it possible that the aMT HCl is fine and just naturally a little grey because of whatever was making the freebase yellow (and darker deposits at the edges of pools is just normal because of natural accumulation there or something)?

Exactly, the impurities only precipitate when most of the solvent is gone, and the solvent gets carried to the edge by capillary action through the crystals and evaporates from there, concentrating the impurities around the edge. It's probably not a great idea to do it in the oven though, in case the HCl gas destroys it

You could probably recrystallise it from IPA/acetone, I'd do that regardless of how it looked if it was for injection.

 

[psood0nym]

^Thank you Mr. Skillet. That makes sense (the not melting my oven thing, too).

 

[Alcyone]

Hydrochloric acid is annoyingly corrosive, but if excess HCl from a 25X-NBOMe recrystallisation is enough to destroy your oven, you're either an exceedingly sloppy cook or working at a bloody large scale.

 

[skillet]

Hehe, true! I just meant to be a bit careful really, I'd rather not find out just how much excess it takes to destroy an oven, though it could be kinda fun if you've got a few different types to spare!

 

[Indole]

I'm not sure using concentrated HCl is a good idea for salting tryptamines. I have it on good authority that DMT recovered from an A/B extraction, where conc. HCl was used as the acid was inactive. This leads me to believe that there can be acid catalyzed opening of the indole ring, or some other form of molecular decomposition under highly acidic conditions.

 

[yoyoman]

^ yeah hcl is too strong sometimes. Also, its really hard to get DMT HCl to form any kind of solid, or crystals. It looks like goo... until you freebase it again and use some phosphoric acid, fumaric acid..oxalic acid.. those turn DMT right to solid no problem.