25i-nbome: Convert Freebase to Soluble Salt Solution

[namename]

Hello, I have recently read a number of accounts of people having terrible experiences due to an over-consumption of 25i-nbome via insufflation (snorting I believe). One of the main issues seems to be that people are unsure how to convert their freebase into a more water-soluble solution, apparently called HCl. The advice presented includes mixing the freebase with an acetic acid (would vinegar work?), citric acid (100% lemon juice was suggested), or mixing it with HPBCD.

What isn't clear to me is the importance of specific ratios in the mixing process, i.e. would it be fine to dissolve the freebase into a large quantity of acid and just let it evaporate over time, or is it possible to use too much acid and thereby somehow ruin/compromise the quality of the 25i-nbome?

One ratio was listed for HPBCD which was 1 gram 25i-nbome freebase to 8 grams HPBCD.

I have also read that the freebase is more soluble in alcohol than in water, but have not seen information on whether creating this solution would be a viable way to transfer the 25i-nbome to blotters, as I have read that the hcl increases bioavailability, and I wonder if the evaporation of the alcohol would leave the blotters difficult to uptake by the body.

Ultimately, it seems that if there were an easy solution with lemon juice people knew about, they might better avoid an overdose experience.
This is where I request the input of those of you with direct knowledge on the subject.

To be particularly clear, I will present three basic questions:
1. Will vinegar or 100% lemon juice work for the conversion process?
2. Are the ratios of freebase to acid important (beyond of course having enough acid to dissolve the freebase)?
3. Are any of the above mentioned methods, or others, particularly useful in terms of making the 25i-nbome more bioavailable via certain means of consumption (i.e. using citric acid is ideal for oral consumption via blotters, while using an alcohol solution is only helpful if you are willing to drip the solution into your nose)?

I am not personally involved in these things, but I will be sure to post information based on the experiences of those around me if I feel it could help others to be more safe in their interaction with this growingly popular and extremely potent substance.

Thank you to any and all who post clear, informed answers to one or more of the above questions.

 

[zn13bt]

Add enough acid to dissolve the freebase, then dilute with water or alcohol to your desired concentration for liquid measuring. Use whatever acid you want (vinegar works fine). If you use an acid that is safe for human consumption then you don't have to worry about there being any extra in the solution. It's really not that complicated.

I don't think anyone knows yet about the bioavailability of different salts and solvents. The acetate salt in distilled water is plenty available for me at doses of under a milligram.

 

[JaneDoe2290]

Since this is relevant to the thread, how should evaporation be done when converting 25i-nbome freebase to acetate using vinegar? Do I just leave it in an open container, like leaving the lid off the vial, or do other measures need to be taken?

In this thread, someone brings up vinegar to convert to acetate : http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-551797-p-11.html?

One post says you need about 4ml of vinegar to convert a gram of 25i-nbome to the acetate, can anyone confirm this measurement as correct? And specifically, what vinegar should one use?

 

[twelvesevndi]

Since this is relevant to the thread, how should evaporation be done when converting 25i-nbome freebase to acetate using vinegar? Do I just leave it in an open container, like leaving the lid off the vial, or do other measures need to be taken?

In this thread, someone brings up vinegar to convert to acetate : http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-551797-p-11.html?

One post says you need about 4ml of vinegar to convert a gram of 25i-nbome to the acetate, can anyone confirm this measurement as correct? And specifically, what vinegar should one use?

i think you need to get someone else to do this for you.
you are having way too much trouble with really basic ideas here... it seems like you're going to fuck up unless you have someone to hold your hand the whole time and no one here is going to do that for you...

Why are you still asking about evaporation? you have to keep this in solution to measure it.
and evaporation is simple. you let it sit in the air til it evaporates. you want to evaporate it once its on the blotter... what the fuck are you going to do with the hcl powder? just leave it as the freebase.

there's no such thing as too much vinegar. also the vinegar will keep bacteria out of your solution.
those are both things you would already know if you could be bothered to read the big&dandy threads.
those threads are there for a reason folks.

you really don't want to put the whole gram into solution at once.
you're going to have to buy equiptment you don't seem to have: a milligram scale and an insulin syringe at the very minimum.

take 50 mg of the freebase. put it in something glass.
add EXACTLY 5 mL of bacteriostatic water (or water that you have boiled to sterility) to the glass container.
add 5 mL of vinegar.
is it fully disolved?
if no ... stir and poke for a while
if it is still not fully in solution add more vinegar and stir vigorously. do this 1 mL at a time until you have a homogenous solution.
divide 50 mg by the total number of mLs you used. this is your mg/ml ...
now use that to calculate how much liquid you need for your dosage (if you used 10 mL for the 50 mg, you have 5 mg/mL so you would want 1/10 of a mL for a 500 ug dose. thats one notch on your insulin syringe. i would dilute to somewhere between 1 and 3 mg/mL so that notch would be equal 100 - 300 ug, a better increment to work with... you will probably want to try dosages other than 0.5, 1, or 1.5 mg)

i've gotta say its seriously shocking and worrying that I have had to write this out.
this process has been explained many many times in the big&dandy threads.
if you are too lazy to read through the threads or can't understand what people are talking about in them then you absolutely should not be trying to dose yourself with this chemical in its freebase or HCl form. its easy enough to buy on blotter or in dropper-bottles

 

[namename]

Thanks zn13bt. What method of use are you referring to when you say under 1 milligram? I have heard that a nasal drip is most effective, and don't personally know anyone who has tried any other method.

 

[namename]

Thanks for your precise reply, twelvesevndi.

 

[JaneDoe2290]

i think you need to get someone else to do this for you.
you are having way too much trouble with really basic ideas here... it seems like you're going to fuck up unless you have someone to hold your hand the whole time and no one here is going to do that for you...

Why are you still asking about evaporation? you have to keep this in solution to measure it.
and evaporation is simple. you let it sit in the air til it evaporates. you want to evaporate it once its on the blotter... what the fuck are you going to do with the hcl powder? just leave it as the freebase.

there's no such thing as too much vinegar. also the vinegar will keep bacteria out of your solution.
those are both things you would already know if you could be bothered to read the big&dandy threads.
those threads are there for a reason folks.

you really don't want to put the whole gram into solution at once.
you're going to have to buy equiptment you don't seem to have: a milligram scale and an insulin syringe at the very minimum.

take 50 mg of the freebase. put it in something glass.
add EXACTLY 5 mL of bacteriostatic water (or water that you have boiled to sterility) to the glass container.
add 5 mL of vinegar.
is it fully disolved?
if no ... stir and poke for a while
if it is still not fully in solution add more vinegar and stir vigorously. do this 1 mL at a time until you have a homogenous solution.
divide 50 mg by the total number of mLs you used. this is your mg/ml ...
now use that to calculate how much liquid you need for your dosage (if you used 10 mL for the 50 mg, you have 5 mg/mL so you would want 1/10 of a mL for a 500 ug dose. thats one notch on your insulin syringe. i would dilute to somewhere between 1 and 3 mg/mL so that notch would be equal 100 - 300 ug, a better increment to work with... you will probably want to try dosages other than 0.5, 1, or 1.5 mg)

i've gotta say its seriously shocking and worrying that I have had to write this out.
this process has been explained many many times in the big&dandy threads.
if you are too lazy to read through the threads or can't understand what people are talking about in them then you absolutely should not be trying to dose yourself with this chemical in its freebase or HCl form. its easy enough to buy on blotter or in dropper-bottles

I spent a good few hours looking, and haven't seen much regarding the 25i-nbome that's explained easily. There's really no need to be a complete and total douchebag about it, I've already said numerous times that I don't know much about this, and the reason I'm asking such remedial questions is because I want to be safe. The mature thing to do, regardless of how stupid you find my questions, would be to just answer politely and accurately without insulting me every step of the way. That said, I appreciate the information in your reply, minus your terrible attitude.

Edit : I want to put this on blotter, by the way, which is why I was asking about evaporation. I figured I'd dissolve it all in vinegar to get the acetate, let the vinegar evaporate off, and then collect the acetate salt and dissolve that in water, and use that to lay the blotter, instead of laying the blotter with vinegar. I don't intend to dose myself via syringe, but by blotter.

 

[twelvesevndi]

the consensus seems to be that soaking the whole sheet at once will give you uneven hits.

figure out how much liquid a square of your blotter will hold. use this volume to determine solution strength.
if you want 250 ug per blotter and your blotter paper holds 0.1 mL then you want your solution to be 2.5 mg / mL.

you say you want to be safe. dosing individual blotters at no more than 300 ug a piece is the safest thing to do.
writing "25i" on the back after drying would also be pretty safe.

redisolving in water is fine but i can't imagine any advantages....
if you are worried about the taste then simply use as little vinegar as you can to make your solution (it may be as little as 1 mL, you'll need to find out for yourself).
i don't mind the vinegar taste very much. thinking about adding some of that alcohol flavor extract that you use for baking next time to add a tolerable flavor.

as for the syringe... the concept is so well established here that i forgot to mention: use an insulin syringe WITHOUT the needle. you are just using it for precise liquid measurements. a micro pipette would also work but is harder to find. glass insulin syringes are easily found through google.

 

[zn13bt]

Thanks zn13bt. What method of use are you referring to when you say under 1 milligram? I have heard that a nasal drip is most effective, and don't personally know anyone who has tried any other method.

Buccal - I lay my dose on a strip of paper, let it evap, then apply it to my upper gums for a half hour. I get first alerts after about 10-15 minutes, and I'm already starting to trip at the half hour mark when I remove the paper. Given that timeframe and the doses I've used I seriously doubt that complexing it would make it any more effective than it is in salt form.

 

[zn13bt]

JaneDoe, have you ever worked with any research chemicals before? If not, I strongly recommend you set this one aside for the time being, and get some experience working with a substance with a higher margin for error, such as 2C-I or a 4-sub tryptamine. Study illuminati boy's guide to research chemicals: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/235559-Safer-Research-Chemical-User-s-Guide Get yourself the proper equipment (milligram scale, oral syringe, gloves, respirator, dust box, etc.) and learn how to do liquid measurement correctly. The NBOMe series is so potent that you could very well send yourself to the hospital, or even the morgue, if you screw up your dosage. And given the questions you've been asking, it's very likely that you will screw up, no matter how much we explain things to you. You seem to need a lot more experience with handling chemicals in general before you can safely use 25I.

 

[JaneDoe2290]

JaneDoe, have you ever worked with any research chemicals before? If not, I strongly recommend you set this one aside for the time being, and get some experience working with a substance with a higher margin for error, such as 2C-I or a 4-sub tryptamine. Study illuminati boy's guide to research chemicals: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/235559-Safer-Research-Chemical-User-s-Guide Get yourself the proper equipment (milligram scale, oral syringe, gloves, respirator, dust box, etc.) and learn how to do liquid measurement correctly. The NBOMe series is so potent that you could very well send yourself to the hospital, or even the morgue, if you screw up your dosage. And given the questions you've been asking, it's very likely that you will screw up, no matter how much we explain things to you. You seem to need a lot more experience with handling chemicals in general before you can safely use 25I.

Thanks for the concern, but I'm checking this chemical out. I'm not drug ignorant, I realize how potent it is, and I realize how dangerous a possible overdose may be, which is why I ask these questions. I get the feeling some of you are more concerned with me somehow "Ruining things" by dying and then bringing attention to the nbomes or something vs. actually giving a damn about my safety, otherwise instead of discouraging me you'd be providing more constructive and informative help. The fact of the matter is, this chemical is widely and easily available to anyone who knows how to use google and has a few bucks lying around, so I think the best thing to do, is to provide informative, accurate, and descriptive replies on harm reduction vs. trying to discourage potential users in interested people. Because we all know that's not going to work, so let's just cut the crap. I think I'll just dose individual blotters via syringe vs. attempting to lay a sheet, since many of the guides I've found have conflicting information and I feel the margin of error is much less when just using a tab. My questions are perfectly fine, it seems to me, these things aren't exactly taught to you anywhere but in a chemistry class, aside maybe my questions involving volumetric measurement, so I don't know why anybody here would believe I should somehow inherently know these things. Anyways, enough complaining, this is hardly on topic anymore.

 

[zn13bt]

Yes, let's cut the crap as you say. The fact is, there was PLENTY of information posted over and over again in the B&D thread about how to take it safely before you showed up. And yet you keep asking extremely elementary questions and insist on having everything spelled out for you in excruciating detail. What are we supposed to think?

Whatever. Have fun. I'm through trying to help you.