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2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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^ maybe.

evidence has been building and building. trump and his administration have tried to pass it all off as valid meetings about isis and sanctions etc.

the email chain released by trump jr. himself shows that's not the case.

will trump's apologists brand his own son's email as 'fake news'?

alasdair
 
I've read further, and I gotta say, #FAKE NEWS!

C'mon, Junior's new to politics, he brought along a guy who's been doing it for forty years, but he had a sore throat or something.

He's not even part of the administration, except he brought Kushner, who is.

That person they met isn't from the government, except she's called the Government Lawyer.

And who cares anyway, we love Russia, just look at all the movies from the 80's we Republicans loved so much, like Red Dawn, and felated Reagen for supposedly defeating somehow. We called Democrats "pinkos" back then, y'know like Red Commies. Now our Pres. works with them in secret, and we thinks it's swell!
 
Scrofula said:
Howdy! I've been camping. Wha'd I miss? An underling did something bad, and this is different from all the other bad things? (I honestly don't know yet)
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You missed Trump jr admitting be had a meeting with a Russian lawyer with links to the Kremlin to get dirt on Hildog. With Kushner and Manafort.

And now turns out that Trump jr is in contact with Julian Assange too.. Even more interesting
 
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I'm sure it's just more lying librul media. Always smearing him. It's why he tweet you know, cause they bias him.
 
alasdairm said:
^ maybe.

evidence has been building and building. trump and his administration have tried to pass it all off as valid meetings about isis and sanctions etc.

the email chain released by trump jr. himself shows that's not the case.

will trump's apologists brand his own son's email as 'fake news'?

alasdair
Click to expand...

Would that be enough for him to be impeached?
If nothing happens, he will be able to get away with anything from my perspective.
 
He was impeachable the moment he took office, for failing to get rid of all his overseas holdings.

The House has to vote to impeach; they can impeach for any reason anyway, but they're Republican majority. Then the Senate has a "trial" to remove or not, but the Pres. just resigns if he knows it won't turn out well.

THey have to smell their base turning on them before the midterms in order to vote on it. So the real question is how much fucking evidence and embarrassment do you need for the tide to turn with House Republicans?

The only out is to get Pence and a few cabinet members declare him "unfit", which has never been attempted before.
 
I know. But we didn't know all of that would have happened. Of course some people thought he would be unfit but not like this.

The House is now Republican but this can change in next mid-terms elections as I understand. It has happened before with Obama because of the Tea Party he lost the majority as I have read. So much less than what's going on now.

The house could definitely change in the middle of his 4-year-term, unless he creates a major distraction but not even that would be sufficient to cover all of this wrongdoing IMO.
 
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I know, but until then I have a feeling that things could become increasingly difficult for him.
 
That's a good thing. Tie up all those fucktards covering their asses so they don't do shit like repeal ACA. I kinda like my healthcare.
 
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/...-interview-email-chain-russian-lawyer-meeting

Little bitch oops Trump jr trying to say it's no big deal since he didn't get any info (or so he says anyway). Deflecting, more lies, fake regrets.. I hope they bring the hammer down on you and squash you like the bug you are! Same for Kushner and Manafort, and hopefully you'll drag daddy Trump with you so you can wipe each others tears while *Ahmed and Jose* tag team you.

*anybody else would be fine, but I really really hope it's Mexicans or Muslims or both*
 
like a lot of people, i'm pretty baffled by trump's popularity.
this article from the Conversation is a pretty interesting analysis

Inside the minds of Trump’s ‘true believers’

When Donald Trump gave the commencement address at Liberty University this spring, he told the graduates that “America has always been the land of dreams because America is a nation of true believers.” Trump argued that, in America, “we don’t worship government; we worship God.”

I suspect the president was unaware that the term “true believer” was made famous more than 65 years ago in Eric Hoffer’s 1951 book, “The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements.” Hoffer had no academic training, having worked mainly as a longshoreman. He wrote “The True Believer” in reaction to the rise of fascism, Nazism and communism. Against all odds, the book became a best-seller.

Hoffer shrewdly analyzed the forces that spark nationalist and totalitarian movements. The irony of Trump’s “true believers” remark probably escaped both the president and his audience.

As a psychiatrist, I’m interested in how vulnerable groups can be manipulated by misleading rhetoric. I believe there are striking parallels between Trump’s rhetoric and the factors Hoffer explored.

Targeting the true believer

Hoffer wrote, “For men to plunge headlong into an undertaking of vast change, they must be intensely discontented yet not destitute.” They must also have “an extravagant conception of the prospects and potentialities of the future” and “be wholly ignorant of the difficulties involved in their vast undertaking. Experience is a handicap.”

Much of Trump’s campaign was based on promises of vast change, such as the immediate repeal of Obamacare. These promises never took into account the great difficulties of radical change. Indeed, in late February 2017, Trump acknowledged, “Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.” And, of course, Trump had no political or public sector experience to inform his most controversial decisions. Yet he masterfully parlayed this shortcoming into the virtue of being an “outsider” battling an entrenched Washington establishment.

Hoffer viewed “true believers” as craving “a new life – a rebirth – or, failing this, a chance to acquire new elements of pride, confidence, hope, a sense of purpose and worth by an identification with a holy cause.” Trump’s repeated promise to “make America great again” spoke to such a longing among disaffected voters. This message was often fused with appeals to evangelical Christians. Indeed, writing in The New Republic, Sarah Posner observed that “Trump effectively played to the religious right’s own roots in white supremacy.”

Hoffer understood that the true believer is rarely concerned with facts. He wrote, “It is futile to judge the viability of a new movement by the truth of its doctrine and the feasibility of its promises.”

Trump’s rhetoric was based on what Senior Adviser Kellyanne Conway famously called “alternative facts.” And Trump repeatedly made promises that most experts considered anything but feasible. He proclaimed, for example, “I will build a great wall … on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words.”

Hoffer recognized that “Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a God, but never without belief in a devil.” Furthermore, “the ideal devil is a foreigner…[and] a domestic enemy must be given a foreign ancestry.”

True to form, Trump’s campaign rhetoric repeatedly invoked anti-immigrant themes, often disparaging Muslims and Mexicans. Trump famously characterized Judge Gonzalo Curiel as a “hater” and a “Mexican” when Curiel was presiding over lawsuits against Trump University – despite the fact that Curiel was born in Indiana.

Finally, Hoffer described the “true believer” as someone willing to die for “the cause.” It’s not clear how many of Trump’s supporters would fit that description. But Trump himself may have characterized his most fervid followers when he said, “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” Eric Hoffer might well have called those voters Trump’s “true believers.”
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It's like trying to get into the heads of people in the KKK. They have been fucked by the current situation, and like beat dogs have been turned on whatever their master commands. Most of these people feel like all control has been taken out of their hands, and that someone like Trump can maybe give them some sort of consolation prize. Better something than nothing right?

This is what happens when you take away someone's pride, honor, and integrity. Can you blame a rat in the corner for defending itself even if the defensive action is wrong?

These people need love, healthcare, an FDA who cares for them, exercise, and most of all decent paying jobs! Both Democrats and Republicans have failed to represent them. They are scared and don't know what to do. This type of mind is the easiest to influence with false promises and grandiose statements. They are usually too poorly educated (in mainly history and literature with regards to these issues) to know any better.

The true enemy are those who are mega wealthy using their money to buy brains to spread bullshit to throw off the masses from their schemes. These people are preying upon ignorance, and are cashing the fuck in.
 
^^SJ: Trump probably thinks he made up the term "true believers", like "priming the pump". If he signs the current version of the "beautiful" health care bill then some of his believers will die. Probably with their red caps on repeatedly saying "he is my president".

Erikmen said:
I know, but until then I have a feeling that things could become increasingly difficult for him.
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Erikmen,
While I do not think that this latest revelation will sink Donald Trump, I steadfastly believe that the investigation led by Robert Mueller, the former FBI director, will torpedo him. The Congressional investigations will drag out publicly, in the press, lest we forget the issues at hand.

Some things to keep in mind are that Trump has only been in office for about six months and that Mueller was appointed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) a mere two months ago as special counsel to oversee the ongoing investigation into ties between President Trump’s campaign and Russian officials, as well as crimes that may take place during the course of the investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, and witness intimidation. Historically, these types of investigations have taken approximately three years.

The other four (yes four!) investigations are being run by Committees in the Senate and House of Representatives. One of the important ways that these investigations differ from Mueller's is that they lack an exclusively dedicated and handpicked legal team and staff.

The type of investigation being conducted by the DOJ is not undertaken lightly. In the two instances in recent history that they were deemed necessary, they resulted in the resignation of President Nixon and the impeachment of President Bill Clinton.

I found this to be quite informative.
The complete guide to all current investigations related to Donald Trump: Their scope and possible consequences

Your comment about increasing difficulty made me think of this article.

Excerpted from article (link below):

As George Stephanopoulos points out, he knows a thing or two about what it's like to be in a White House under investigation. The former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton...said he doesn't believe President Donald Trump's administration fully grasps where special counsel Robert Mueller's inquiry could lead.

"Having worked in a White House that was under the thumb of the special counsel for several years, they have no idea," Stephanopoulos [said]...

Stephanopoulos explained that special counsel Kenneth Starr was appointed to investigate Clinton "before Monica Lewinsky came into the White House."

"[Lying under oath about an affair with Lewinsky is] what ended up being what Bill Clinton got impeached over," he noted. "Special counsels can go in any direction they want."

Stephanopoulos also said that if Trump fires Mueller, it could spell the end of his presidency.

"It brings you back to the Watergate times and the Saturday Night Massacre,"he [said...] alluding to President Richard Nixon's orders to fire special counsel Archibald Cox, which led to the resignation of Nixon's attorney general and deputy attorney general.

"I can't imagine a president surviving a move like that," Stephanopoulos continued, adding that he believes Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein would resign rather than carry out orders to fire Mueller.

[...A] source close to Trump said at the time that the President was being counseled against such a move.

Inside peek at the pressure of being investigated
------------

Note by cduggles: Jared Kushner had urged Trump to fire FBI Director James Comey, while Steve Bannon strongly advised against it. Kushner's advice obviously prevailed, but led to Kushner's fall from absolute grace, as it only intensified the Russia investigation with the appointment of Mueller. The special counsel is much more difficult for Trump to fire after he admitted that he fired James Comey because of the Russia investigation in a nationally broadcast interview with Lester Holt.

Steve Bannon now runs Trump's war room for dealing with the investigation and has so far been able to reign in Trump to some extent. However, Trump is always one impulsive move away from completely ignoring or betraying his closest advisors, even Ivanka (on climate change)!

This will be a long, tortuous investigation. The good news is that Trump is going to go nuts watching the news and reading the papers. His current position protects him from lawsuits and traditionally, criminal prosecution. So he really can't quit. But he'll definitely feel increasing pressure and persecution (because he has a complex :) ) from these investigations. He is already noting who is lawyering up and distancing themselves, which is everyone except Steve Bannon and I'm not sure about who else... Melania?

As low as my opinion of President Bill Clinton is (and it is quite low), outwardly he handled the pressure of the independent counsel's investigation well and retained his composure for the most part under hostile questioning.

I don't see Trump maintaining his composure throughout his investigation (see Twitter) or in response to hostile questioning under oath on television in front of the American public for five minutes. And he will be there eventually.

I don't want Mike Pence as president or Paul Ryan as VP. I'm fine watching Trump twist for a few years while the people closest to him get charged and convicted by the special counsel. Perfectly fine.

America waits...
 
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Thanks a lot for this cduggles. :) Very interesting indeed and quite informative.

I am starting to see the broader picture, a little more everyday. It seems to me that something new happens almost everyday in Washington.
 
Erikmen said:
Thanks a lot for this cduggles. :) Very interesting indeed and quite informative.

I am starting to see the broader picture, a little more everyday. It seems to me that something new happens almost everyday in Washington.
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Thank you and I sincerely hope it was helpful.

I don't want to bang on about my own post, but I basically quoted all the high points of the Stephanopoulos article because of your comment. :)

However, due to all the investigations going on with the DOJ, Senate and House, I really couldn't explain all the implications of each investigation and what tangible outcomes such as Trump's impeachment or criminal charges.

So Erikmen and other interested people, please look at this link. I hope you like it. :D

The guide to all Trump-related investigations and their possible outcomes
 
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it's interesting to watch the pro-trump position shift from "there was no collusion" to "if there was collusion, it's not a big deal" over the last day or two...

alasdair
 
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