• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

2017 Trump Presidency Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
morninggloryseed said:
Universal means no choice. Socialism makes things equal by making it shittier for everyone. No thanks. Reform the costs
Click to expand...

You're fed some bull over there aren't you? And you swallow it with super-sized lies until you're fat on ignorance.

Just about the only socialist thing we have left in the UK is the NHS. It's universal and it certainly does not mean no choice. You have the choice to go to any GP you want. And you have the choice to go to any hospital in the country you choose if you think you can find a better treatment than the one offered. I speak as someone who has done so as a cancer patient.

How is that "shittier for everyone"?

I'll tell you what is.

About 25 years ago the Conservative government introduced the PFI, the private finance initiative, by which banks and capitalist institutions lent money to build private/public initiatives particularly in areas such as hospitals, but notably in schools too. Basically, banks have built or bought around 100 hospitals for/from the NHS....at an original cost of £11billion. In your language, somewhere around $15billion. So far so good? The interest rates are exorbitant. In the end the cost to the NHS will be an £80billion payback ($110billion?). The total UK PFI debt is already over £300billion for projects worth £55billion ($400billion for projects worth $75billion?). This means that over £250billion ($330billion) will be spent swelling the coffers of PFI groups.

Now that's why there is no more money for the NHS.

Now that's what I call shitty.
 
Nicely firebranded SHM :) I cannot fathom the logic which sees universal healthcare as something bad. Flawed like all human institutions but better than fucking next to nothing.
 
Look guys, this universal healthcare is just not for the usa. Maybe your governmemt is benevolent but here...i have no desire to have govt any more involved in my private decisions...especially with my healthcare needs.
 
Well, I want free healthcare, shit's expensive. If you get hurt or sick you'll spend much more than a months rent on the hospital bill. For some (read: many) of us that's really crippling financially speaking.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Look guys, this universal healthcare is just not for the usa. Maybe your government is benevolent but here...i have no desire to have govt any more involved in my private decisions
Click to expand...

Look man, I'm REALLY not picking a fight. But how can you separate 'private decisions' from 'informed decisions'? I had prostate cancer. Prostate cancer, even in the UK, is heavily reliant for medical treatment on the experience of the USA. Until now, you have 'lead' the way. And 'your way' is a profit based decision. Radical prostatectomy. Because it makes the surgeon £32000 ($43000). For various reasons (side-effects) I chose to find my own path. I found, through my own research, a treatment that costs roughly £600 ($900). Of course, I get this for 'free'. Regardless, it leaves me with FAR less side-effects. I chose that decision and my own hospital that carries out that treatment. I don't see my govt as benevolent in any fucking way. I do see my health service as benevolent and non-profit based. My govt was not involved in any way excepting the National Insurance contributions that every worker here pays, based on their salary.

What's so 'intrusive big govt' about that?
 
the government doesn't use the healthcare against you - they just pay for it.
the government and your health files are no more or less secure because of it, if that is what you're worried about, mgs.
it's not like you lose your 'rights' or 'privacy' by having government subsidised healthcare :)

the united states government's intelligence machines have pretty much all the information on me and you than they will ever need, as it is...
you betcha that NSA shit costs a lot of money that could easily fix your health crisis. well, that's just one idea.
 
the money they're trying to waste on that stupid fucking wall would more than pay for everyone's healthcare, and feed and shelter all the homeless, and pay for everyone to get a college education, and...
 
I believe govt control would reduce my choices. Ive already delt with obamacare which did not cover my adhd medication or the doc who gives it to me. I dont nessessarly object to govt funding healthcare through tax credits, as they are talking about now. But a one size fits all, govt dictating what is covered...not for usa.
 
ADHD meds are covered by the PBS (pharmaceutical benefits scheme) here.
my friends with scripts for dexies and stuff pay a small charge. without specifically mentioning prices, it's less than a pint of beer for 3 months' meds iirc
 
morninggloryseed said:
Ps...no such thing as free healthcare....not unless the doctors are volunteers.
Click to expand...

Maybe that's why I put free as 'free'?

And the whole question of doctors and the NHS is a moot point. They (doctors) were the last to come on board and do not operate as a full part of the NHS. They are largely self-employed, no holiday pay, no sick pay. Regardless, the system works. And no-one made £32000 out of my cancer treatment. Instead it cost the taxpayer £600. I'm sure you can do the math.
 
morninggloryseed said:
I believe govt control would reduce my choices. Ive already delt with obamacare which did not cover my adhd medication or the doc who gives it to me. I dont nessessarly object to govt funding healthcare through tax credits, as they are talking about now. But a one size fits all, govt dictating what is covered...not for usa.
Click to expand...

you see, with single payer, they'd be mandated to cover it, for far less money. under wealthcare you're going to pay a shitton more for significantly less coverage. healthcare is one of those things that should never be run for-profit; its literally extortion.
 
I never had anything else than public health insurance and I was always taken care of. how people like mgs can really believe that this is a bad thing to have is beyond me. I know of nobody here who went bankrupt over being sick. If you need medical attention, you make an appointment at whatever clinic you want/need, no problem.
 
MGS said:
But a one size fits all, govt dictating what is covered...not for usa.
Click to expand...

Are you reading any of these replies mate? :D It is not he governement dictating anything, it is them paying for the service you choose. You are not locked into seeing Dr X because the government wants you too. You can see Dr Y and Z too if you want, the government will use your tax dollars to pay for that.

You keep saying that its not for the USA but you aren't giving a good reason for this. Do you really think poor people are less deserving of vital medical treatment than the rich?

Remember, it is NOT the government paying for this, it the the government redistributing the communal wealth (that you are forced to hand over at tax time) for your own benefit.

morninggloryseed said:
Ps...no such thing as free healthcare....not unless the doctors are volunteers.
Click to expand...

Are you serious dude? :D The "free" part refers to any cost to the consumer. The doctors and practitioners are not volunteering.

No wonder you dislike free healthcare because you seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings as to what that means.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top