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2010 World Cup, South Africa

MD Specialist said:
Landon Donovan's goal.... now I don't want to take anything away from that goal and what it meant for team USA. What I don't understand is all this talk on how Donavon is 'the American hero'. Really? Hero? That goal was given to him on a silver platter. Anyone could have made that shot. Shit I could've made that shot.
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i could have made that shot too but i've not put in the time and hard work to make a national soccer squad and neither, it seems, have you. being in the right place to capitalise on a rebound is part of the arsenal of a good player and he was.

i do agree that using the word hero is a little rich but this is the u.s.a. dude - land of hyperbole.
MD Specialist said:
If he would have missed, that would have been pathetic.
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sure it would but he didn't miss. when you use things that he didn't even do to criticise him you devalue your post considerably.

alasdair
 
I'm with Alasdairm: the ability to be in position to score a simple goal is, itself, a valuable skill. Great goal-scorers are just as valuable as scorers of great goals. Think someone like Ruud Van Nistelrooy, he scored dozens of tap-ins, but what the hell, those goals were important.
 
Onto group F, which surely counts as a major upset.

The World Champions, Italy, finish bottom of the group, without a win. In third place, World Cup minnows New Zealand, undefeated in their three games. What can we say, our players gave it everything and very nearly could have qualified, with late chances being just missed against both Italy and Paraguay. I couldn't be more proud. After everyone wrote NZ off and said we didn't deserve to be in the world cup, we were in serious contention of qualifying for the second round. Nelsen was a giant, everyone played above themselves: a team containing part-timers (like Boyens), players who don't even have a club (like Elliot), and with a coach who earns less than I do, took on the world's best and walked away with their heads held high <3

Slovakia, after looking ordinary for two games, beat the world champs 3-2 in a ding-dong match and finish second. And Paraguay, who no-one really fancied in spite of their great record in qualification, finish top of the group. Well done to them, they have a great chance of making the quarter-finals.
 
I have to chime in real fast on the "right place right time" conversation. As a long time soccer player, I've scored many a goal. Some beauties, some garbage. The thing is, people DO often forget that while garbage goals often include luck (in where the ball presents itself to you), knowing where to be and being able to react properly at less than a moments notice is not something that "anyone" can do. You have to know the game to react quickly and precisely. It's one part recognizing your surroundings and the situation at hand and one part skill. Donovan's goal was no fluke, it was a garbage goal and a damn important one at that! You can bet the farm that the easiest shots are also the easiest to miss. It sounds like bullshit, but 9 times out of 10, I'll feel more comfortable with a shot I shouldn't make than a shot I shouldn't miss.

Also...

MD Specialist said:
Landon Donovan's goal.... now I don't want to take anything away from that goal and what it meant for team USA. What I don't understand is all this talk on how Donavon is 'the American hero'. Really? Hero? That goal was given to him on a silver platter. Anyone could have made that shot. Shit I could've made that shot. If he would have missed, that would have been pathetic. He didn't even play well the entire game, or the last two games. And not only that but this goal was just to make it to the next round, in my opinion that's kind of a joke. If this was in the middle of the game it wouldn't be this big of a deal. Don't get me wrong, I am happy USA made it past the group stage, and in that fashion it was pretty sweet. But all this craziness, for beating a crappy team (which we should have beat by more), just to get out of the group stage, for a pretty easy shot, I just don't understand it. A lot of countries would see just barely making out of the group stage a failure especially in not the toughest of groups. In my opinion you're not a soccer hero (especially national hero) until you take your team to the promise land and score the game winning goal. Anyone agree? Or disagree?
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100% disagree.

Algeria might not look good on paper and granted their offense was a bit lacking, but their defense in both the game against England and the US was pretty well organized (for the most part). You could see them panic a bit towards the end against the US, but Algeria played far better than they were expected to. And let's not forget... these teams aren't comprised of scrubs. Yeah, it may be Algeria... but it's a national team. They're good players and on any given day... things could go their way. Brazil only beat North Korea 2-1 and they were HEAVILY favored in that game so by your logic... what's that say about Brazil?

And let's not forget the disallowed goal. I'm not using that as an excuse for anything, but you have to think about the situation at hand. 2 disallowed goals in the group stage that, had they both counted as they should have, would have meant the US was just coasting to the next round... then throw in the MANY MANY near misses, the Dempsey face shot/bloody lip that went uncalled... I mean... this team had every reason to feel dejected well before the end of the game, but they kept on pushing and attacking, and with every Algerian counter attack, the US held their own with good defense and good goalkeeping.

Donovan might not have lit up the scoreboard, but he played well. Part of being a good player is being a good leader, both by demeanor and by your actions. Donovan literally changed the entire swing of momentum in the Slovenia game when he crushed that ball in the roof of the net. You could almost feel the spirit lift. You have to remember that he's mostly been playing as an attacking midfielder and isn't gonna get the amount of opportunities that Altidore is getting up top, but when the opportunity presents itself... he comes through like gangbusters.
 
Infinite Jest said:
In third place, World Cup minnows New Zealand, undefeated in their three games. What can we say, our players gave it everything and very nearly could have qualified,
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I agree you guys did very very well with what you had to work with but unfortunately they didnt shoot so they were never going to move through. I was disapointed in your coach for not pulling the trigger at some stage in the match and seeing where you go.

To be honest, in the match against Paraguay, the kiwis were shocking. You were never ever going through without a win and the coach at no time attempted to try and win the game.

If I was a kiwi then i would be seriously asking questions of the coach.
 
To alasdairm, infinite jest, and ryanlaughlin I appreciate your input.

@ alasdairm: Your right about me not making it on the national team. If I would have ran half way down the field and had the goal presented to me, like it did for Donavon, my out of shape ass would have died, and by the end of the play I would have been hallucinating and calling to the sidelines for my inhaler. I believe Donavon is a good player but in the pool of the worlds greatest, he is unfortunately towards the bottom. With regards to my quote "If he would have missed, that would have been pathetic" it wasn't meant to criticize him but more for the readers to think about it. America would have crushed him like a bug if he missed, but he made it, so now he is a hero? This line "this is the u.s.a. dude - land of hyperbole" made me laugh! And I see you reside in South Tahoe.. I graduated high school from Incline, and now in Reno. PM me or whatever if you want to ever meet up and watch a game.

@ryan: First off, I think Brasil is garbage. Will they go deep in the cup? I believe unfortunately so.. but this years team is crap.
Yes. The disallowed goal against Slovenia was a horrible call, almost worst then the missed perfect game call a few weeks ago. Terrible calls like that should not be in the world cup. The shit offside call against Algeria was also crap! Algeria has great players and they are a good team.. but USA is a better team and we should have won by more. Like you said we had great defense and goalkeeping which kept us in this match. I do think the US team is good and yes we should have cruised into the next round. Once again I do think Donavon is a good player and he has lead this team farther than many other American players in the past.

What I want people to think about is if that goal that Dempsey put in against Algeria was allowed and if finished 1-0 would you be seeing on Good Morning America, ESPN, CNN, FOX Sport.. "DEMPSEY, AMERICAN HERO!" I personally don't think so. I know America really isn't the biggest soccer nation. But all this for making it past the first round? If Kobe or Lebron (Basketball) would have hit a game winning three against Algeria in first round of the Olympics people would be saying "why was the game so close, we should have won by way more"

As stated in previous post my heart is with the Portugal national team. I am Portuguese and have been following the national team since I can remember. I believe Portugal can win the cup. Will they have to play better? Yes. If Portugal had to play a do or die game against a weaker team in not too strong of a group it would be considered a disappointment. It was a disappointment that Portugal tied Ivory Coast! So that's why there is a little bit of bias in my discussion. I am also American, and to me, this was way to close, in not that strong of a group, shitty calls aside (especially for all this commotion).

I can't wait for Portugal to show Brasil what a good team is. Without Christiano Ronaldo. (He's resting so we can show Spain in the next round that we are the team to beat.) ;)
 
MD Specialist said:
I know America really isn't the biggest soccer nation. But all this for making it past the first round? If Kobe or Lebron (Basketball) would have hit a game winning three against Algeria in first round of the Olympics people would be saying "why was the game so close, we should have won by way more"
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Football (usually) isn't about smashing teams by five goals. It's often about eking one-nil victories - even more so in the dying minutes of a match - when the ebb and flow of a game is against you.

Regarding the "hero" thing... like alasdairm said - that's just the country you live in. I'd have thought you'd have been used to it by now. As I said in the EADD World Cup thread, the interviews after the match were hilarious. At one point, I thought both the interviewer and the player were about to break down in tears, so moving and inspirational were his words about the journey he'd been on to reach this occasion. ;)

Your media just likes to milk it in the hope that someone may cry on camera.

Oh, just another point here... but the US doesn't really have that many team games that it can compete against other nations on an equal footing. If you squeezed a 3-point win in basketball against Algeria, you'd be right to ask questions... because you're the only country in the world who actually bothers to invest so much time and effort into the sport. You have no real competition, so you can easily smash most other nations.

For the US to get through to the second round in a truly competitive arena (where the rest of the world actually plays and invests in the sport) is quite an achievement and, I guess, is probably deserving of the praise it's so far received.
 
New Zealand undefeated, population 4 million, Paston should be knighted top chap.AAALLLLL WWWHHHIIITTTEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!AAAALLLL WWWWHHHIIITTTEEESSS!!!!!!!!!
 
tambourine-man said:
For the US to get through to the second round in a truly competitive arena (where the rest of the world actually plays and invests in the sport) is quite an achievement and, I guess, is probably deserving of the praise it's so far received.
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This, right here, sums it up for me.

MD, I understand your point, but I still respectfully disagree. Donovan's "heroics" are situational. Dempsey's "goal" wouldn't have been heroic because they still had about 3/4 of the game to play so it would be diluted by the heroics of the team play, so to speak. Donovan's goal, however, coming in stoppage time, is in essence (by my reasoning) heroic not because of the person, not because of the shot, but because of the weight it carried. I don't think anyone's praising Donovan as much as they're praising the goal. He just happens to be the vessel that dons that praise because he's the player who put the boot on the ball. That goal honestly gave me an emotional rinse out because of the 90 minute heartache that preceded it. I've never felt that euphoric from watching a sporting event in my life.

You have to consider the fact that almost EVERYTHING that could go wrong, was going wrong. Missed shots on the doorstep with a wide open net, another disallowed goal, pinging the posts, England had led their game from about the 15th or so minute... I mean... it took a variety of things to forge our exit, but we prevailed. Donovan hit the nail on the head when he said "we embody the American spirit." There was no quit in their game.
 
USA! USA! USA! I haven't watched more than a minute of the World Cup. The horns I always here are straight up annoying. It didn't sound like they were blowing on them for any specific moment in the game. Just mindlessly blowing on them.

But it'd be hilarious to see USA beat the World at a game Americans, for the most part, think is a joke.
 
MazDan said:
I agree you guys did very very well with what you had to work with but unfortunately they didnt shoot so they were never going to move through. I was disapointed in your coach for not pulling the trigger at some stage in the match and seeing where you go.

If I was a kiwi then i would be seriously asking questions of the coach.
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To be fair, there wasn't much he could have done. He was already playing with 3 strikers. He couldn't bring on Tim Brown, because he was injured. The only thing he could have tried was bringing Chris Wood on earlier (keep an eye on him, he's the best natural ball-player we've had in....a long time. Plays for West Brom but hasn't made too many starts yet).

I think the guys who were out there were exhausted. They'd played out of their skins for two games, to earn draws, then had to change their game and try to attack. They couldn't do it, but I'm still proud.

And as far as I'm concerned, Rikki is a genius: he took the Phoenix to the minor final (or whatever it's called) and the All Whites to the world cup, all with no resources :).
 
MD Specialist said:
What I want people to think about is if that goal that Dempsey put in against Algeria was allowed and if finished 1-0 would you be seeing on Good Morning America, ESPN, CNN, FOX Sport.. "DEMPSEY, AMERICAN HERO!" I personally don't think so. I know America really isn't the biggest soccer nation. But all this for making it past the first round? If Kobe or Lebron (Basketball) would have hit a game winning three against Algeria in first round of the Olympics people would be saying "why was the game so close, we should have won by way more"
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I don't think you realise how difficult it is to even make the final 32 at a World Cup. You only have to see the quality teams that did not qualify for South Africa to realise that there are no "easy" teams. Algeria might not be a country large in the American conscious but reality is they won through a very competitive African qualification. Following the World Cup many unknown players will be snapped up by very good clubs in Europe.

If you want a basketball analogy it is like Luke Longley scoring an easy lay up to win a ring for the Bulls. To an American he is a bloke who was lucky enough to have MJ and Pippin feeding him the ball, but to most Australians he is a hero.
America is not that much of a soccer minnow to be honest. You have a national league that although is not a patch on the big boys in Europe, is still able to attract some very good players from around the world. If you want a country who cares very little for soccer you only have to look at New Zealand. They managed to go undefeated while drawing from a pool of 25 (8o ) fully professional players. That's not their squad, that's the total number of NZer's in the world that actually play soccer for a living. Hell even their nickname is a bastardised version of the mighty All Blacks.
 
^
You know that's only a reference to their uniform, right? Which is itself a reference to all other NZ teams playing in black, derived from the All Blacks rugby team. (The All Whites only switched to white when they had to play a lot of games in Asia, because black was too hot). They are mostly white guys though.
 
Yeah, I just think it's funny because when they say the all whites, that's the first thing I think of. :D

I should say, I knew of the All Blacks and I knew of the All Whites, but I didn't know that that's where the All Whites originated (ie... switching colors because of playing a lot of games in the heat of Asia).
 
commiserations to the u.s.a. team - they needed to raise their game to get through but fell short. the second ghana goal was an absolute peach!

alasdair
 
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