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2010-11 NBA Thread

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Lebron James has a developmental disorder is what you guys are saying?
 
I think Lebron is good enough of a basketball player that he has to literally TRY to play poorly. Whether you agree or disagree with him being the greatest player of all time, he's an incredible INDIVIDUAL talent... it goes without saying. So when he plays poorly (I'm not talking about average or sub-par... POORLY) it's more than likely due to outside influence (ie. internal struggles). As much of a shithead as Lebron is... and no matter how much he's disrespected Cleveland and it's fans, no matter how much bigger he thinks he is than the whole state of Ohio... Lebron James doesn't purposely suck balls. If he's playing bad, it's legit.

For the most part... Lebron's biggest faults aren't on the court.

That said... I'll be at the game Thursday in Cleveland... booing the fucks that made this winter the least anticipated winter in 8 years.

I'm a Browns, Indians, Cavs, and Buckeyes fan... and I don't hate the Steelers, White Sox, Bulls, Wolverines combined as much as I hate the Miami Heat. The Heat logo looks as evil to me as the swastika did to the jews during WWII. A bit of an exaggeration? Sure, but I really have never had this burning a desire for a team to fail. It's gotten so bad that I actually cheer more for a Heat loss than I do a Cavs win. I'm sorry... I know that's not being a good fan of my team... but it's just plain a burning desire to see a conglomeration of arrogant assholes get theirs.

Again... 3-4 and Crowe... I have nothin but love for you guys. :)
 
seep said:
Lebron James has a developmental disorder is what you guys are saying?
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haha yes a basketball developmental disorder

ryanlaughlin said:
I think Lebron is good enough of a basketball player that he has to literally TRY to play poorly. Whether you agree or disagree with him being the greatest player of all time, he's an incredible INDIVIDUAL talent... it goes without saying. So when he plays poorly (I'm not talking about average or sub-par... POORLY) it's more than likely due to outside influence (ie. internal struggles). As much of a shithead as Lebron is... and no matter how much he's disrespected Cleveland and it's fans, no matter how much bigger he thinks he is than the whole state of Ohio... Lebron James doesn't purposely suck balls. If he's playing bad, it's legit.
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I disagree, everyone can have bad days, thats part of the game (take a look at MJ's stats in the last game of his last ring).

as far as the boston game last year I dont think he quit per say in the same way that most people do, but it comes down to how you define "quit". I think boston did a good job of taking away his lanes to the basket which forced him to shoot jumpers, he was missing them, felt the pressure so he decided to play passively out of self dedefence. you know so if the cavs lost it would seem they did because he didnt try rather than he tried and just wasnt good enough.
 
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LeBron lacks that killer instinct that has defined all of the all-time greats. Think Charles Barkley as a comparison. I have said that since before he was at the Heat, when he joined the Heat, and throughout the whole season. Wade is our killer instinct guy, and a better player IMO.

That said, does anyone think it is possible that Mike Milller being out is what is hurting this team? The projected starting lineup by most people in the know was:

PG: LeBron
SG: Wade
SF: Mike Miller
PF: Bosh
C: A mishmash of mediocre players


This team isn't even complete, but potentially losing Haslem for the season is devastating. He was a huge part of the Heat's plans, and perhaps their 4th best player.

Anyways, they need to transition LeBron to point guard/forward stat and put James Jones in the starting lineup at Small Forward immediately. Arroyo is terrible as a starter, the entire lineup idea isn't working because they are trying to utilize LeBron and Wade the same way they have been used before, and it needs to change. Anybody can see that, and LeBron is the one with legit skills at the point.

Anybody who thought this team would win 70 games was retarded, even if I said it in the excitement of it all (my bad if I did). That does not mean that they are not legit contenders, however. If I were betting actual money, I would still place it on the Heat to win the title.
 
grimble crumble said:
i think people are too hard on lebron for the jokes/fun thing

but on the other hand I do think it holds him back. Picture MJ and Kobe. both these two, when it gets to post season time have this attitude of literally winning being the only thing they care about. to the point of it almost being childish. winning must happen at all costs and they both have that I will kill you look. in their heads there is nothing but I will win

you dont really see that with lebron as far as frame of mind.

kobe and mike are the types that would be up every damn morning pushing themselves to the limits trying to get better, while lebron leans more on his natural physical prowess and doesnt have the discipline or character to be on there levels.
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Exactly! If LeBron had Kobe's or MJ's mentality since high school, I think he would be able to challenge Jordan for G.O.A.T

He won't even go down top 15 all time IMO.

3 said:
LeBron lacks that killer instinct that has defined all of the all-time greats. Think Charles Barkley as a comparison. I have said that since before he was at the Heat, when he joined the Heat, and throughout the whole season. Wade is our killer instinct guy, and a better player IMO.

That said, does anyone think it is possible that Mike Milller being out is what is hurting this team? The projected starting lineup by most people in the know was:

PG: LeBron
SG: Wade
SF: Mike Miller
PF: Bosh
C: A mishmash of mediocre players


This team isn't even complete, but potentially losing Haslem for the season is devastating. He was a huge part of the Heat's plans, and perhaps their 4th best player.

Anyways, they need to transition LeBron to point guard/forward stat and put James Jones in the starting lineup at Small Forward immediately. Arroyo is terrible as a starter, the entire lineup idea isn't working because they are trying to utilize LeBron and Wade the same way they have been used before, and it needs to change. Anybody can see that, and LeBron is the one with legit skills at the point.

Anybody who thought this team would win 70 games was retarded, even if I said it in the excitement of it all (my bad if I did). That does not mean that they are not legit contenders, however. If I were betting actual money, I would still place it on the Heat to win the title.
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Chalmers need to start over Arroyo.

Carlos is a defensive liability.
 
Serious said:
Exactly! If LeBron had Kobe's or MJ's mentality since high school, I think he would be able to challenge Jordan for G.O.A.T

He won't even go down top 15 all time IMO.
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Are you serious?!?

(see what I did there??? :D)

As much of a dick as Lebron is and as much as I wish failure on him for eternity... I think he'd crack the top 15 regardless of whether he ever wins a title or not solely on his individual talent.

This isn't an attempt to challenge you or to be a dick, but just out of curiosity, if you don't think Lebron would crack the top 15, who would you put ahead of him?
 
ryanlaughlin said:
Are you serious?!?

(see what I did there??? :D)

As much of a dick as Lebron is and as much as I wish failure on him for eternity... I think he'd crack the top 15 regardless of whether he ever wins a title or not solely on his individual talent.

This isn't an attempt to challenge you or to be a dick, but just out of curiosity, if you don't think Lebron would crack the top 15, who would you put ahead of him?
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no way I can name 15 players in nba history better than lebron EASILY
 
Well off the top of my head, I'd say (in no particular order):

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Kareem Abdul Jabar
Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Scottie Pippen (?)

And I KNOW I'm certainly missing some obvious ones, but you have to forgive me as I did say "off the top of my head" and basketball is by no means my primary sport so I'm not as well versed as some of you guys probably are on the history.

So I ask the same to you... again, out of curiosity... who would you rank above Lebron?
 
ryanlaughlin said:
Are you serious?!?

(see what I did there??? :D)

As much of a dick as Lebron is and as much as I wish failure on him for eternity... I think he'd crack the top 15 regardless of whether he ever wins a title or not solely on his individual talent.

This isn't an attempt to challenge you or to be a dick, but just out of curiosity, if you don't think Lebron would crack the top 15, who would you put ahead of him?
Click to expand...

1.) MJ
2.) Kareem
3.) Magic
4.) Bird
5.) Russell
6.) Wilt
7.) Shaq
8.) Duncan
9.) Hakeem
10.) Kobe
11.) Oscar Robertson
12) Jerry West
13.) Moses Malone
14.) Elgin Baylor
15.) Julius Erving/Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen (can't decide between the three)


Right now LeBron is somewhere in the top 25 for me.
I think he'd crack the top 18 when its all said and done though.
 
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stinkfoot said:
pacers are looking pretty good.

they have & will continue to suprise some teams.
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I think the Pacers are good enough to grab that 8th seed in the East this year. I can't see that squad getting past the 1st round though.
 
Serious said:
1.) MJ
2.) Kareem
3.) Magic
4.) Bird
5.) Russell
6.) Wilt
7.) Shaq
8.) Duncan
9.) Hakeem
10.) Kobe
11.) Oscar Robertson
12) Jerry West
13.) Moses Malone
14.) Elgin Baylor
15.) Julius Erving/Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen (can't decide between the three)
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im the type of guy that would put nate thurmond over moses malone, and john stockton over pippen.

for leborn if he pulls his head out of his ass and doesnt turn into a T.O. type of guy, he might make the top 15/12, while kobe I think is easily already in the top 10 and could move up.

although the more I think about the harder it is to rank.

if your going off pure stats than Wilt is probably the G.O.A.T. but if your going of rings than Bill russell is the goat. MJ is neither of those hes but hes the G.OA.T. because hes a combination of both, plus other things but you could say the exact same thing about kobe.

I mean really when you think about it Kobe is nearly an MJ clone skill wise and has 5 rings going for more, so its hard not to rank them close together on the all time list.

yet then you have these guys like Baylor and wilt who have PHENOMINAL stats and not many rings yet jordan out ranks them and sometimes even magic and jerry west outrank them on peoples lists and I would without doubt say Kobe is better than jerry west, and he might outrank magic with his defensive skills, killer instincs and insane scoring outbursts, but then you have people who would cringe at that statement but to those people I say well you have mj as the greatest and kobe is about as close to mj as you can get? its really a jumbled mess.

on a final note I truelly believe elgin baylor is one of the most underated players of all time. any man that is 6'5 and averages 18.6 RPG and 38PPG in a single season is a basketball god. thats what pissed me off most about people comparing lebron to jordan during his cleve haydays before everyone hated him, its disrespectful to players like baylor.
 
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anyone putting kobe in their top 10 all-time simply does not know basketball.

remind me, what was kobe's winning % w/o shaq and pau?

anyone remember when kobe quit in the 2nd half of the suns series, passing the ball every time he touched it?

kobe is a volume shooter. give him 30 shots or give him 10, he'll give you roughly the same efficiency. that's valuable, but i can make a strong case guys like clyde drexler and scottie pippen are more valuable.

and lol @ the LBJ hate ITT. he has performed wildly under expectations this year, and i have no problems admitting that, but for 4-5 straight years he has been the best player in the L. give him his credit.

right now his game is made redundant by wade (and vice versa), and he deserves all the criticism he's getting for how one-dimensional his offensive game is (where are the post-ups?) but at the same time we're what, 15-20% into the season? calm down. he's more of a team player than kobe has ever been.
 
^^^ lol take away any mans team mates and his win % will go down. jordan had the luxery of having roughly the same core teamates his entire career.

and kobe without shaq or pau? I believe included in this time were season stats of 35-5-5, 31-5-5, 28-5-6, not very often in the modern nba that at man averages 35 per game, in fact the most recent time before that was in 1988 when Jordan did it. so ide say not too shabby. your points arnt very strong man :\

EDIT: p.s. I think the best player in the L would have at least a little bit of a post game...

kobe has one of the best post games in the leage and the best mid range.
 
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^ Agreed. Taking away his go to guys, but not taking away MJs go to guys (for ONE example) isn't exactly comparing using common denominators. It's like saying "Kobe at his worst... is SOOOOOOO much worse than Jordan at his best... therefore Kobe can't hold a flame to MJ!"
 
LBJ would be getting more hype if is team was performing better. actually, right now the Heat are on something like a 6 game win streak, and now magically his name is being mentioned more in MVP voting. LBJ has the numbers, his team just has to back him up in wins just like all the years he was performing with the lowly Cavs....
 
grimble crumble said:
^^^ lol take away any mans team mates and his win % will go down. jordan had the luxery of having roughly the same core teamates his entire career.
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jordan never had a legitimate post presence yet still dominated the L.

we saw kobe w/o a post presence and he was tracy mcgrady.

and kobe without shaq or pau? I believe included in this time were season stats of 35-5-5, 31-5-5, 28-5-6, not very often in the modern nba that at man averages 35 per game, in fact the most recent time before that was in 1988 when Jordan did it. so ide say not too shabby. your points arnt very strong man :\
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he got his numbers through volume, not necessarily efficiency.

not to mention that tracy mcgrady put up similarly superb numbers and was more efficient while doing it.

kobe is a volume shooter. give him 30 shots or give him 10, he'll give you roughly the same efficiency.
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in 04-05 he chucked it up 20 times a game to get his 27.6 points (1.38 points per shot), shooting 43%. his player efficiency rating (PER) was 23.3.

in 05-06 he needed 27.2 shots to get 35.4 points (1.31 points per shot), shooting 45 percent. his PER was 28.0.

in 06-07 he burned through 22.8 shots to get 31.6 points (1.38 points per shot), shooting 46.3 percent. he picked up 5.4 assists but turned it over 3.4 times a game, leading to a 26.1 PER.

meanwhile LBJ has averaged a 30.6 PER the last three seasons, higher than kobe's best season. he shoots a higher percentage, gets to the line more often, averages more assists yet still commits fewer turnovers.

p.s. I think the best player in the L would have at least a little bit of a post game...

kobe has one of the best post games in the leage and the best mid range.
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about 75-80% of kobe bryant's shots are jumpers. (source: 82games.com). jump-shots (specifically those from 18-24 feet) are the lowest-percentage shot in the game. your productivity comes from both 3-pointers and the paint, as getting in the paint leads to a higher percentage from the field, free throws, and assists.

james' jumper isn't his strong suit, but it doesn't matter because he gets into the paint at will, and is the best finisher in the L inside the paint. getting into the paint collapses the defense, geting you fouls, easy dunks, and assists that lead to easy dunks. (not to mention offensive rebound opportunities!)
 
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